NYC J3a Hudsons galore. Which one are you getting?

The 1939 set and Mr. Muffin's version.

I'm going to get the 1950 773 and the 1991 700e remake.  They seem to be the most reliable, which is a top priority for me.

I can drop in or upgrade sound, tmcc and the chocolate milk dispenser later on if desired.

Tough one...  i think its the #5452 for me, or #5418...

my first impulse was the 5452 as it has the disc drivers and PT tender.  Then thinking it would be nice to have the hudson tender, because I already have PTs for my ESE and Niagara.

So maybe going for the 5418.

I love the disc drivers, and like same drivers on my engine so thats my thinking...

One of the ones with the PT tenders. But which one? Probably 5452 since all of the drivers are the same. I wish they would switch the other one to all boxpok but I'm just thankful for no whitewalls. I sat out the Allegheny and Niagara for that reason and hated it.

The Chesapeake and Ohio T1.    

Randy_B posted:

One of the ones with the PT tenders. But which one? Probably 5452 since all of the drivers are the same. I wish they would switch the other one to all boxpok but I'm just thankful for no whitewalls. I sat out the Allegheny and Niagara for that reason and hated it.

Takes about 5 minutes with lacquer thinner to get rid of the whitewalls and any other white paint. Just did that on a Mogul and will do the same with my Niagara.

You can see the results in this thread. All of the lettering and stripes were removed this way. No damage to the underlying paint.

https://ogrforum.com/...y-legacy-modul-lives

On the fence for 5405 until I find out the status of getting smokebox fronts sans class lights.

Pete

The new MTO ones are probably great..  (maybe)

I really doesn't matter to me,  because I have far better ways to spend $1500+,  and hoping the QC is adequate.

Maybe some purchaser will invite me to "play" with their new (very expensive) toy, but I'm not holding my breath  !!!!

john in western pa posted:

The new MTO ones are probably great..  (maybe)

I really doesn't matter to me,  because I have far better ways to spend $1500+,  and hoping the QC is adequate.

Maybe some purchaser will invite me to "play" with their new (very expensive) toy, but I'm not holding my breath  !!!!

Not likely John.  Just love the need of some people to post totally  irrelevant replies that do nothing to further the thread.  

I now return you to regular schedule programming.

Alabama Joe posted:

The Chesapeake and Ohio T1.    

Ditto on this one also

Norton posted:

Randy_B posted:

One of the ones with the PT tenders. But which one? Probably 5452 since all of the drivers are the same. I wish they would switch the other one to all boxpok but I'm just thankful for no whitewalls. I sat out the Allegheny and Niagara for that reason and hated it.

Takes about 5 minutes with lacquer thinner to get rid of the whitewalls and any other white paint. Just did that on a Mogul and will do the same with my Niagara.

You can see the results in this thread. All of the lettering and stripes were removed this way. No damage to the underlying paint.

https://ogrforum.com/...y-legacy-modul-lives

 

On the fence for 5405 until I find out the status of getting smokebox fronts sans class lights.

Pete

That's encouraging on the whitewalls - look forward to seeing if it works as well on your Niagara. I just don't understand why Lionel put whitewalls on all 4 or 5 black Niagara road numbers when they know that is a sometimes polarizing issue for buyers. You would think they would want to diversify a little more to broaden the appeal. I voted with my wallet on that release.

Randy_B posted:

Norton posted:

Randy_B posted:

One of the ones with the PT tenders. But which one? Probably 5452 since all of the drivers are the same. I wish they would switch the other one to all boxpok but I'm just thankful for no whitewalls. I sat out the Allegheny and Niagara for that reason and hated it.

Takes about 5 minutes with lacquer thinner to get rid of the whitewalls and any other white paint. Just did that on a Mogul and will do the same with my Niagara.

You can see the results in this thread. All of the lettering and stripes were removed this way. No damage to the underlying paint.

https://ogrforum.com/...y-legacy-modul-lives

 

On the fence for 5405 until I find out the status of getting smokebox fronts sans class lights.

Pete

That's encouraging on the whitewalls - look forward to seeing if it works as well on your Niagara. I just don't understand why Lionel put whitewalls on all 4 or 5 black Niagara road numbers when they know that is a sometimes polarizing issue for buyers. You would think they would want to diversify a little more to broaden the appeal. I voted with my wallet on that release.

I can vouch for the lacquer thinner to remove white stripes and white walls without harming other finishes....this J1 was littered with builders stripes.....wiped them off with lacquer thinner, never damaged the black underneath....also removed the original cab numbers. Wiped them right off too.....never had to touch up the black.............as far as what hudson to get, I’m going with the one Mr. Muffins is offering....I was leaning to the Pacemaker, but I really like what Steve is offering.....

I just pre-ordered the Stock Item 19314ZZ Uncatalogued Exclusive New York Central Legacy J3A #5416 Hudson from Pat's Trains. The engine will come with two boiler fronts, with classification lights and another without.

Sincerely, John Rowlen

john in western pa posted:

The new MTO ones are probably great..  (maybe)

I really doesn't matter to me,  because I have far better ways to spend $1500+,  and hoping the QC is adequate.

Maybe some purchaser will invite me to "play" with their new (very expensive) toy, but I'm not holding my breath  !!!!

From the webmaster:

https://ogrforum.com/...mbership-please-read

I plan on getting the TMCC version once you guys start selling them.

Given the trouble you posted about with the mogul it amazes me you would preorder anything else from Lionel.  No disrespect intended but this is the phenomenon that I and a number of others here don’t understand.  Either the issues are overblown or the customers are gluttons for punishment.  New Hudsons look nice but I would insist on seeing the one I buy test run first before taking it given all the noise here.  Not intending to argue, simply confused.

Super O Bob posted:

Tough one...  i think its the #5452 for me, or #5418...

my first impulse was the 5452 as it has the disc drivers and PT tender.  Then thinking it would be nice to have the hudson tender, because I already have PTs for my ESE and Niagara.

So maybe going for the 5418.

I love the disc drivers, and like same drivers on my engine so thats my thinking...

 

 

 

Ok.  Update...  i think i need two.

Im warming up to getting and early hudson, and a later hudson...  love all the choices and the dealer special runs!

I ordered the 5418 through Great Lakes here in MI. I will deal with the class lights unless Lionel issues the plain front for those that want it. I will weather mine for an in-service look (not the scrap line) and hang a Kadee somehow on the tender. It will probably need larger pilot wheels while I'm at it, something a few of my engines need but I never seem to get around to. I am hoping the traction tires are on the rear drivers as opposed to the center blind ones like the models they built in the early 2000s (including the diecast Dreyfuss).

5452 for me.

Thinking about 5413 & 5418. I’m considering the pacemaker set but I also really like the defense special set and would run that with the 5418. Question: I like the mix of disk & boxpox drivers on the 5413. Would it be prototypical to remove the marker lights on that engine. I would like the look of a weathered Hudson with mixed drivers & no marker lights. 

I don't see any class lights in this photo.

5418 with Mixed drivers.  All pics from the Fallen Flags RR website.

J3's shouldn't have any class lights on them(per one of the other topics about these engines on the forum). I myself don't mind them, but I wanted to get two of them. Best option for me initially was the Pacemaker set because the class lights were the only thing that was really out of line and the overall look of the engine I liked better than others offered. When Mr. Muffin's Trains offered the version without class lights, all black, PT Tender, no white walls and such, that made my day. In the end, I get the two best versions for me, one that is close, and one on the money.

As for class lights on other Hudson's, that's a good question 

Ray Lombardo posted:

Given the trouble you posted about with the mogul it amazes me you would preorder anything else from Lionel.  No disrespect intended but this is the phenomenon that I and a number of others here don’t understand.  Either the issues are overblown or the customers are gluttons for punishment.  New Hudsons look nice but I would insist on seeing the one I buy test run first before taking it given all the noise here.  Not intending to argue, simply confused.

Ditto

Dave

Norm Charbonneau posted:

 I just got to looking at the excellent long-running FF site (source of Superwarp's pics) and noticed the 5418 had its feedwater heater changed along with its drivers (and other things) over the years. Were the Scullins prone to breaking crank pins too? 

 

From Richard Leonards NYC Collection:    What is notable here, however, is that some of the nonstreamlined J-3s came with Scullin disc drivers like the last five streamlined "Twentieth Century" Hudsons of 1938. After the Scullin drivers had been found to be developing cracks in sustained high-speed service, most were replaced by the Boxpok (box-spoke) type by the end of steam. Photos exist of NYC Hudsons with a mixture of the two types. 

https://www.railarchive.net/ny...ex.html#selections03

I'm going for the all boxpok model. My railroad can't afford to have wheel failures.

I'm sticking with the Scullins. They remind me of my Mk6 GTI Detroit wheels. 

david1 posted:

Ray Lombardo posted:

Given the trouble you posted about with the mogul it amazes me you would preorder anything else from Lionel.  No disrespect intended but this is the phenomenon that I and a number of others here don’t understand.  Either the issues are overblown or the customers are gluttons for punishment.  New Hudsons look nice but I would insist on seeing the one I buy test run first before taking it given all the noise here.  Not intending to argue, simply confused.

Ditto

Dave

While I don't know which factory the Moguls were made, I've been told the Hudsons will be made in the same factory that the Niagara's were made in.  Given that the Niagara's other than the normal defects seen by all manufactures, were for the most part trouble free.  Also I've purchased four Lionel engines over the past couple of years and other than the Mogul have been trouble free. 

As for me, I'm leaning towards 5415 offered by Mr Muffins Trains.  Haven't pulled the trigger yet, but I'm getting close.

I think the reasons for the mixed drivers is that, whenever an engine came into the shops for tire changes, in order to get that engine back out on the road as quickly as possible they replaced said driver (s) with ones they had already taken off an engine brought in earlier, repaired and stored for future use. 

superwarp1 posted:

david1 posted:

Ray Lombardo posted:

Given the trouble you posted about with the mogul it amazes me you would preorder anything else from Lionel.  No disrespect intended but this is the phenomenon that I and a number of others here don’t understand.  Either the issues are overblown or the customers are gluttons for punishment.  New Hudsons look nice but I would insist on seeing the one I buy test run first before taking it given all the noise here.  Not intending to argue, simply confused.

Ditto

Dave

While I don't know which factory the Moguls were made, I've been told the Hudsons will be made in the same factory that the Niagara's were made in.  Given that the Niagara's other than the normal defects seen by all manufactures, were for the most part trouble free.  Also I've purchased four Lionel engines over the past couple of years and other than the Mogul have been trouble free. 

As for me, I'm leaning towards 5415 offered by Mr Muffins Trains.  Haven't pulled the trigger yet, but I'm getting close.

Understood.  I hope the locomotive is trouble free and you get plenty of enjoyment from it.   Best regards.

I like the Boxpok's because I believe all of my current Hudson's have Scullins save one. Of course the Boxpok I do have is Traditional, the CCI Hudson. This is yet another reason to not take so long to offer Hudson's.

I'll also note, this will make Hudson #5 for me

3rdrail J1, MTH J2, Lionel ESE J3, and 3rdrail J3 with Selkirk smoke box.  What's one more right?

superwarp1 posted:

I'll also note, this will make Hudson #5 for me

3rdrail J1, MTH J2, Lionel ESE J3, and 3rdrail J3 with Selkirk smoke box.  What's one more right?

Is your 3rd Rail J3 a destreamlined Super Hudson with PT Tender?  If so then, in my opinion, that one is technically correct in its detailing including the deletion of classification lights on the smokebox though the brackets are there. 

Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

This is yet another reason to not take so long to offer Hudson's.

Well at least after waiting 17 years, between the catalog and the custom dealer offerings,it appears they are trying to make everyone happy.

Allegheny48 posted:

superwarp1 posted:

I'll also note, this will make Hudson #5 for me

3rdrail J1, MTH J2, Lionel ESE J3, and 3rdrail J3 with Selkirk smoke box.  What's one more right?

Is your 3rd Rail J3 a destreamlined Super Hudson with PT Tender?  If so then, in my opinion, that one is technically correct in its detailing including the deletion of classification lights on the smokebox though the brackets are there. 

Yes

I like the look of the mix in different wheels, even though I'm a sucker for the Scullin-Disk. It's almost like a car with obviously replaced tires, and the patchwork look captures well the twilight days of steam.

Given my dad always bought the Hudsons when Lionel put them out (and now have become mine through inheritance!), I am sorely tempted to get one.  Just need to weight out what I have now and what will be different than those!

He did make sure to have some of the main ones (original 700E, Dreyfuss, Century Club, original 773, so on and so on), so one of these may need to be made a part of that collection!

Well this is a monumental occasion but something is to be said about the Hudson when the cladding was removed and it still had its disc drivers:

But something with the Lionel photo/ product is amiss...

like the small pilot wheels, wrong head lamp, added marker lamps, drive rods etc... I really am not sure what I will get...

Haven't made up my mind on what I will order but would really prefer B&A. Have MTH & K-Line NYC J1e, MTH B&A "J2," Weaver New Haven I-5, MTH C&NW E-4. Do I really need more? There are Hudsons other than NYC...

MELGAR

Placed an order with Pat’s Trains for an uncatalogued special order No. 5416. Of all the variations offered this one is by far the closest to what I am looking for (once the class lights are hidden and the included correct boiler front is substituted). Boxpok drivers and all, this version is the most appropriate for my set of seven Lionel NYC Pullman green Twentieth Century heavyweights made in 2005. The result will be a pretty reasonable facsimile of that name train circa 1937.

Enjoy whichever flavor you purchase in good health.

Bob

(I never tire of viewing this. )

Hmm, counting Hudson's. J1 with Vanderbilt tender, both Commodore Vanderbilt's(silver & black), CCI #773, CCII ESE, Legacy ESE and the two new ones(1939 Pacemaker & Mr. Muffin's). I think that makes 8? I would say that I still need some more of these. I have said on other posts about here that the Dreyfus needs to come back, but I would also like to see the Mercury and other Streamlined Hudson's(even though I'm not sure what other ones are out there).