O Scale West, any News?

Nothing has changed since you asked about this on the 10th.

No, not going.  Not flying cross country.

Can't wait?  Spend it all now on wine, women, and song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHpxwwAAKm4

I will be there.  NH Joe

Looks like i’ll be skipping it.  One of the main reasons I attend is for the clinics which at this juncture seem nonexistent.  It’s just not worth the cost and frustration of driving particularly on Memorial weekend.  I really miss the show when it was in January.

The car is packed with stuff to sell.  Will be loading up the tables tomorrow.  There will be bargains.  Hope to see some of you this weekend!

well when you check in to hotel be ready for a 25.00 per day parking fee, added to your room rate.

Wow. 25.00 per day to park on top of room rate of 146.00 per day plus tax plus tax plus tax (California has those pesky taxes).  Do they park your car for you ?

Mike where are you?

Iffy…

I got there around 9:00 and left by 10:30, and had already been through it 3-4 times.

Disappointing.

Nobody's fault, but not worth the $45 admission charge in my opinion.

@railroad-guy posted:

Iffy…

That might seem to be somewhat less than a glowing positive?

That’s a very expensive admission cost.

Well the 7.60 +for the cost of gas has to payed into this. Yesterday  40% were

empty  no veneers. Most of then like SSM 3 rail was not there. Protograft

an the other big hitters like MWM models.

They were Bowling in the isle ways most f the day.But the Bar and sushi was open.

BOB

Well its going down to the wire here. there packing it in sellers   are leaving

you misted a well of a dud show. Could be the last OSW.

@Bob Harris posted:

Well its going down to the wire here. there packing it in sellers   are leaving

you misted a well of a dud show. Could be the last OSW.

Sad.  I thoroughly enjoyed the one I went in Santa Clara years ago over the 4th weekend.   It was crowded.   I flew out so I wouldn't know of parking fees... though I wished I could have flown my convertible out with me.

I guess the cost of everything is affecting our train fun. 

Well, gas through the roof, more covid scares, inflation, energy prices going up, grocery prices going up, people are not going to go shopping if they are scared of covid and don't have excess money they feel ok spending...

I have frequented this show since 2012 and never had to pay parking fees.

I frequently travel to Northern CA. Lately I feel that on each trip I’m being ripped off in some way.  Last time I rented a car there, it was $775 per week on a USAA discount with zero options, not even insurance.  The hospitality industry  says demand is high, but the rental facilities appear filled with cars.  

There really needs to be a more affordable venue,  given the current economic climate.  

The reports on FB saying it was a real disappointment, the crowd was lower then expected?, The increased cost of Gasoline might be one of the reasons given, i'm sure more reports are forth coming? 

FWIW: on an S Scale site, the comments have mostly been positive... maybe it doesn't take as much to make S scalers happy!  😁

Mark in Oregon

@Strummer posted:

FWIW: on an S Scale site, the comments have mostly been positive... maybe it doesn't take as much to make S scalers happy!  😁

Mark in Oregon

That would be a correct assessment...

Rusty (30+ years in S)

Show parking was free, hotel just rips off their hotel customers.

Parking lot is owned by Santa Clara not the hotel.

$45 is for both Friday and Saturday.

There are some Home and Club Layouts open before and after the show.

Clinics were planed but I did not go to them this time, but they were good in the past.

I enjoyed the show and the nice people I talked to.

$45 is only about 7 gallons of gas in the Bay Area ($6.50 at Shell Oil).

I could have even taken the Capital Corridor Amtrak train, but I knew I would be carrying new toys home.

I was a vendor at this show. It was a first time for me either as an attendee or a vendor.
The old timers I talked to all said that this was the slowest show in 30 years. In spite of this, I sold enough merchandise to make a little money after expenses. The main perk for me though, was the people I met. New professional connections, as well as face to face meetings with hitherto online friends.

The people who put this show on worked very hard and did a great job. The lack of attendance could be from a combination of many factors outside their control. The new COVID spikes here in California could have been enough alone to keep people away. Hopefully the future shows will see more participation.

After my experiences, I would do this show all over again with the same numbers.

@totrainyard posted:

Show parking was free, hotel just rips off their hotel customers.

Parking lot is owned by Santa Clara not the hotel.

$45 is for both Friday and Saturday.

There are some Home and Club Layouts open before and after the show.

Clinics were planed but I did not go to them this time, but they were good in the past.

I enjoyed the show and the nice people I talked to.

$45 is only about 7 gallons of gas in the Bay Area ($6.50 at Shell Oil).

I could have even taken the Capital Corridor Amtrak train, but I knew I would be carrying new toys home.

The parking situation was a bit of a mess. I was all set to pay their daily parking fee, but parked in the garage behind the loading dock and never paid a dime the entire weekend. The OSW leadership had no control over the parking situation. The hotel kept changing their parameters as things progressed.

I wonder if there was a lot of Eastern RR stock at this show as the Western RR stock may have been in demand.

I know there was more Western railroads at the Chicago Meet in Lombard, Illinois then Eastern Railroads.

It's good that the show was held.  Now the promoters, vendors and public have a benchmark for a new normal.

Likewise with the York show there is a new normal.  After two good shows in the books, most all should know what to expect for the next show.  Same thing for the OSW.  It may never get back to what it was, but now you have an idea of what it will be (and where to park).

@aussteve posted:

It's good that the show was held.  Now the promoters, vendors and public have a benchmark for a new normal.

Likewise with the York show there is a new normal.  After two good shows in the books, most all should know what to expect for the next show.  Same thing for the OSW.  It may never get back to what it was, but now you have an idea of what it will be (and where to park).

I heard some discussions about a change of venue. This show was held on a weekend that they believe was less than optimal. This was due to scheduling conflicts with the host hotel and convention center. There is talk of relocating the event to east of Sacramento at a casino.

I sent an email to the website yesterday asking if they had looked at particular venue adjacent to Old Town Sacramento, which has adequate lodging and the California State Railroad museum.

The biggest objections to a change of locale come from the local layout owners. The layout tours could be made virtual and featured at the actual event.

We are at a time in history, I believe, where we all have to "think outside the box" to continue events like this.

I had a dealer looking for some On3 brass for me and heard nothing back after the event which really surprised me . I know there is usually a fair amount of it there and both of us thought we'd have a few finds .

                                                                          Bryan

If you stayed at the hotel parking was included.  If you were there only during the day parking was free.  Yup, attendance was way down.  A lot of Covid paranoia.  It was visible all over the area.   Saw signs like you don't have to wear a mask but if you choose not to please do not come in here.   A lot of regular attendees were either no longer with us or were unable to attend for health reasons.   On the plus side Silicon Valley traffic was significantly down, on the minus side they have taken regular lanes or added new lanes and made they HOV only.

We are constantly looking for a different venue.  All of the them which have the venue colocated with the hotel have significantly less space and the costs are 50-100%+ higher.  If the venue and the hotel are not colocated the costs do come down a bit but about 50% of previous attendees say they won't come in that circumstance.  No one is happy about the timeframe either.  To stay at the same location hotel rooms will go up from $150 a night to $500-1000 a night if anything is going on at Levi Stadium.  

@Alan Rogers posted:

1. I heard some discussions about a change of venue. This show was held on a weekend that they believe was less than optimal. This was due to scheduling conflicts with the host hotel and convention center. There is talk of relocating the event to east of Sacramento at a casino.

2. I sent an email to the website yesterday asking if they had looked at particular venue adjacent to Old Town Sacramento, which has adequate lodging and the California State Railroad museum.

3. The biggest objections to a change of locale come from the local layout owners. The layout tours could be made virtual and featured at the actual event.

4. We are at a time in history, I believe, where we all have to "think outside the box" to continue events like this.

1. "East of Sacramento"; sounds like a rather big distance change.

2. Great idea. For those who haven't yet been, the State Railroad Museum is awesome.

3. "Virtual tours". Absolutely.

4. See #3. 😁

Mark in Oregon

There are a lot of layouts that could be open for tours in the Sacramento area.  I saw many great layouts during the NMRA National Convention that was held in Sacramento in 2011.  I don't believe that any, however, were O scale 2-rail.  There were some very nice O narrow gauge layouts.

Maybe the Sacramento area would be a better venue because Sacramento is a railroad town (actually Roseville that is just a few miles from Sacramento).  Union Pacific has major shops and a yard there.  NH Joe

We are at a time in history, I believe, where we all have to "think outside the box" to continue events like this.

There is a inherent fear of change combined with the comfort on doing the same repeatedly.

Shifting to more frequent smaller regional meets might a more achievable goal than trying to have a single large meet for a host of reasons.

@mwb posted:

There is a inherent fear of change combined with the comfort on doing the same repeatedly.

Shifting to more frequent smaller regional meets might a more achievable goal than trying to have a single large meet for a host of reasons.

Maybe doing a show like Strasburg would be better?  I am not sure, however, if it would be successful since northern CA does not have the local critical mass of OS2R modelers that the east coast does.  Maybe combining the show with the 3-rail community would be more successful?  NH Joe

@New Haven Joe posted:

Maybe doing a show like Strassburg would be better?  I am not sure, however, if it would be successful since northern CA does not have the local critical mass of OS2R modelers that the east coast does.  Maybe combining the show with the 3-rail community would be more successful?  NH Joe

Maybe but not necessarily rooting it into 1 location - maybe 2-3 or more locations in CA - rotate through them.

Maybe opening to S and all O narrow gauge.

Maybe talking to all the NMRA Div's in CA to see if they might be interested in getting involved (their insurance coverage could be extended and be useful).

But trying to stay 2 rail scale might be a constant to strive for at the same time.

@mwb posted:

Maybe but not necessarily rooting it into 1 location - maybe 2-3 or more locations in CA - rotate through them.

Maybe opening to S and all O narrow gauge.

There was an S Scale presence at the show.   Plus, it seems to me that all O Scale narrow gauge is two rail (unless dual gauge track is somehow considered 3-rail...)  I don't see why On2, On3 and On30 would be excluded.

Rusty

Maybe talking to all the NMRA Div's in CA to see if they might be interested in getting involved (their insurance coverage could be extended and be useful).

But trying to stay 2 rail scale might be a constant to strive for at the same time.

@Rusty Traque posted:

 

There was an S Scale presence at the show.   Plus, it seems to me that all O Scale narrow gauge is two rail (unless dual gauge track is somehow considered 3-rail...)  I don't see why On2, On3 and On30 would be excluded.

Rusty

I never think of this show as including S.  May that's part of the problem - O Scale West?  Needs to be more than just present?

I did state to include all O narrow gauge which would include On18, On2, On30, On3, and whatever else.....

@mwb posted:

Maybe but not necessarily rooting it into 1 location - maybe 2-3 or more locations in CA - rotate through them.

Maybe opening to S and all O narrow gauge.

Maybe talking to all the NMRA Div's in CA to see if they might be interested in getting involved (their insurance coverage could be extended and be useful).

But trying to stay 2 rail scale might be a constant to strive for at the same time.

It has been S West and Narrow Gauge West for the past 5 years or so.  There are already several 3-rail events including Cal Stewart but they are only about 10 thousand square ft of venue and they are not interested in collaboration. We have spoken with the NMRA and they are not interested either.

There are four problems with rotation:  Cost, venue colocation, venue size and oh yeah cost.  Las Vegas doubles the cost.  Reno would double the cost.  Sacramento doubles the cost.  Any where else in the SF Bay Area more than doubles the cost.  On the west coast all these venues cater to industry and/or sports events and they charge them a lot of money.  If we halve the venue space it becomes a lot easier but then vendors decide not to attend but that is sorta OK because we would have to only allow 50% of the them to participate.  

Before the pandemic these "what if" discussions were routine.

Even if we pass on a year at the current location the costs might go up 50-100% going forward because we are no longer a "legacy" user.

@rdunniii posted:

It has been S West and Narrow Gauge West for the past 5 years or so.

That seems to get lost.....

There are already several 3-rail events including Cal Stewart but they are only about 10 thousand square ft of venue and they are not interested in collaboration. We have spoken with the NMRA and they are not interested either.

Unfortunate; the 2018 O scale convention was co-sponsored the local Region of the NMRA which saw this as a natural thing to step forward and offer to do.

There are four problems with rotation:  Cost, venue colocation, venue size and oh yeah cost.  Las Vegas doubles the cost.  Reno would double the cost.  Sacramento doubles the cost.  Any where else in the SF Bay Area more than doubles the cost.  On the west coast all these venues cater to industry and/or sports events and they charge them a lot of money.  If we halve the venue space it becomes a lot easier but then vendors decide not to attend but that is sorta OK because we would have to only allow 50% of the them to participate.  

Before the pandemic these "what if" discussions were routine.

Even if we pass on a year at the current location the costs might go up 50-100% going forward because we are no longer a "legacy" user.

Shades of Joseph Heller............

John Hamilton, the chief of this event, is a narrow gauge person so he covers that.  We no longer have an S scale person on the committee because he was uncomfortable "representing" S scale and from what I've seen I understand.  It seems S Scalers don't like being "represented" by anyone.  I don't recall why the Pacific Coast Region of the NMRA couldn't come to any agreement with us.

I'll throw in my 2 cents, that's about all it's worth.

Cost for all these shows has really gone up. We have very few shows in the Bay Area compared to years past. As each group tries to set up their own show, it's showing the affects of costs and lack of attendance - added to this in recent years is COVID!

Perhaps it's time to think out of the box and do something different. Such as moving the show to an East Bay location or one of the fair grounds. Combine the show with other groups, as someone else said, adding the O gauge 3 rail groups would attach more visitors and vendors. I know that this recent venue was more on a focus of scale modeling, but show casing the differences by adding 3 rails and club layouts, would attract more visitors and interest, IMO. And do hold it on a national holiday.

The costs to rent a hall, such as Santa Clara or Alameda Fair Grounds, split between the various organizations, would help. Not certain, though, how the income from the various vendors and visitors would be shared.

RAY

Perhaps it's time to think out of the box and do something different.