Old New York

I was crazy about the Q cars! Have ridden them to Main Street as expresses and locals. Great photos LIRR! Thank you all for your informative posts and photos.

Hello George

You were lucky to ride those Flushing and Astoria EL lines with the IRT Subway Steinway-Car Trains,  2nd Ave wood EL Gate & MUDC car trains,  BMT EL wood Gate and later Q Type EL car Trains  !! 

I would expect you may have also ridden the IRT Manhattan El cars on the Manhattan & Bronx 3rd Ave El until 1956,  and the Q types on that line from April 1950 thru 9-16-1956 when the Q's and MUDC's were replaced on the Bronx 3rd Ave EL with steel Steinway Subway cars that you also rode in Queens !  I rode the 3rd Ave EL in  Manhattan (and Bronx) frequently but when born I had just missed the closing of the 2nd Ave EL !!

Here is my NYC EL O-Scale EL Layout Flickr Photos Page with  Page # 2 of my BMT WOOD EL GATE CARS Album....from the middle to bottom of page two I have showcased my Queens Worlds Fair Q Types seen on my EL adjacent and along with my IRT Low-V original Steinways  and  1939 W.F. Steinway models,   IRT Manhattan EL wooden MUDC Cars, and some BMT Standards.  I was replicating the Flushing / Astoria line in the period you remember and spoke about.  Even tho these are models on a model EL, I figured in that you rode the prototype trains back then,  you may enjoy these, and some of the sample photos from that page,  added below:   (This IS a forum dedicated to Subway-Traction Modeling !)

O-Scale BMT Wooden EL Cars - Album Page 2

 Of course,  you can use the link to access the other pages of that Album,  and the entire Flickr Site of all my model photos, if you are interested.

Regards ! - Joe F

Beautiful stuff 

Joseph Frank posted:

Hello George

You were lucky to ride those Flushing and Astoria EL lines with the IRT Subway Steinway-Car Trains,  2nd Ave wood EL Gate & MUDC car trains,  BMT EL wood Gate and later Q Type EL car Trains  !! 

I would expect you may have also ridden the IRT Manhattan El cars on the Manhattan & Bronx 3rd Ave El until 1956,  and the Q types on that line from April 1950 thru 9-16-1956 when the Q's and MUDC's were replaced on the Bronx 3rd Ave EL with steel Steinway Subway cars that you also rode in Queens !  I rode the 3rd Ave EL in  Manhattan (and Bronx) frequently but when born I had just missed the closing of the 2nd Ave EL !!

Here is my NYC EL O-Scale EL Layout Flickr Photos Page with  Page # 2 of my BMT WOOD EL GATE CARS Album....from the middle to bottom of page two I have showcased my Queens Worlds Fair Q Types seen on my EL adjacent and along with my IRT Low-V original Steinways  and  1939 W.F. Steinway models,   IRT Manhattan EL wooden MUDC Cars, and some BMT Standards.  I was replicating the Flushing / Astoria line in the period you remember and spoke about.  Even tho these are models on a model EL, I figured in that you rode the prototype trains back then,  you may enjoy these, and some of the sample photos from that page,  added below:   (This IS a forum dedicated to Subway-Traction Modeling !)

O-Scale BMT Wooden EL Cars - Album Page 2

 

 Of course,  you can use the link to access the other pages of that Album,  and the entire Flickr Site of all my model photos, if you are interested.

Regards ! - Joe F

Thanks for your photos of wonderful models! I indeed have ridden the 3rd avenue L on numerous occasions up and down Manhattan and also well into The Bronx fron 1945. WOW what a great ride especially in the South Bronx where the trains would run very closely to the apartment buildings.Thanks again Joe F. your contributions of information and many detailed photos of your trains and laout!

Hello George !

Thanks for the reply and nice comments.  I enjoyed reading your various posted long ago memories on the old EL"s !! 

I also loved the IRT and BMT various EL Gate Cars,  MUDC Cars and the BMT/  IRT  / BMT  Q-Type EL Cars.  You can imagine my surprise in May 1958 to find my old Q-Type friends previously removed from the Bronx 3rd Ave EL throughout 1957, still alive & well and overhauled and all of them newly running on the BMT Myrtle Ave. EL in Brooklyn.  They all still had their original HIGH clerestory roofs,  with the carbodies painted a burgundy wine maroon with silver roofs --- really sharp looking !  I am sure you must have ridden the Q's Type cars on Myrtle EL !!  You also likely saw a lot of streetcar action in Manhattan, Bronx, Queens, Brooklyn back in your time !  I only saw the remaining tail end of it in the 1950-1957 period.

Yes, the Manhattan to Bronx & return 3rd Ave EL ride was a very long (on local trains especially) and memorable  -- there was so much station and structure diversity -- Double Deck Hump express stations,  and odd stations like NB at E.34th Street local Station after the shuttle line was removed, with its passenger overpass bridge over the tracks -- and the newer SB Station house at E.42nd St Express Station and its underpass under the tracks (as it passed over 3rd Ave.below) connecting the 1921 built SB station with the 1878 built NB Station -- and the different local station at E.99th St Local Station with the station houses at the north end of the platforms and also an under track underpass between platform !

And the Harlem River 2 deck swing bridge,  the long "S" curved 4 tracks high over the New Haven RR Freight yards and its 2 track down ramp connecting to the NHRR-NYW&B Railway former terminal station in the yards.  And the Bronx narrow "alleyway" EL between the E. 133rd, E. 138th  and 143rd Street double deck (2 tracks each level)  Local-Express Stations.  And the narrow and busy Avenue the El ran thru over "Third" Avenue in the "E. 149th St. HUB" multi block shopping strip !  And the long ride up the Bronx to the double deck Gun Hill Road (lower level) Station terminal !

You are lucky to have lived in Astoria Queens back then (your postal code on your OGR profile shows that code) and I presume you still live there today??  Lucky because "your EL" - the IRT, later in Dec. 1949 given to the BMT,  Astoria EL,  (and Flushing EL) survived in operation from opening in 1917 before your infant and childhood years later, to this very day -- so you can more easily reminisce and see it anytime now. 

Sure,  the stores and shops you remember are likely long gone and have changed in look and style,  but the basic EL and its stations you grew up with remains the same as does the surrounding real estate (all private homes).  Unlike those of us who lived along the 3rd Ave El in Manhattan, like me,  who have only our memories and photos (and some videos acquired thru the years) of that EL in Manhattan AND BRONX !  And now with the MASSIVE real Estate changes (countless new towering buildings ) all along much of the length of Manhattan's 3rd Ave. today.

I tried to preserve those long ago early memories of the EL's and the old rolling stock I rode and remember,  both in my photos of the real line(s) and my EL Layout modeling.   Of course, I had to  fully scratch-build models of the famed IRT  MUDC EL cars I remember, including with full accurate scale interiors and underbody equipment & trucks - so here are some photos of my IRT EL MUDC (Multiple Unit Door Control converted in 1923 from Open Platform Gate cars) models seen no my EL. 

The FIRST FOUR photos are of my O-Scale scratch built IRT EL MUDC's on my O-Scale NY EL Layout  The LAST photo is a Prototype location photo taken at E. 45th Street along the east side of 3rd Ave and the EL, looking north to a northbound MUDC local after the Dec. 1947 Blizzard snow storm !

Here is my FLICKR Album of "Street Scenes along the O-Scale NYC

Here BELOW is the LINK to my Flickr ALBUM of photos of street scenes taken along my O-Scale Model NYC EL System

STREET SCENES along the O-Scale NYC EL

Regards - Joe F

During the snow storm of 12-26-1947 the subways were kept running their routes continuously as well as all the L's!! However the LIRR operations were in terrible shape. For instance passengers were marooned for 2 days without power and heat. Joe I've lived all my life in Astoria except for military time. I enjoy your knowledgeable comments and remarks. Keeps my memory going. Thanks again Joe F!

lionel1933 posted:

During the snow storm of 12-26-1947 the subways were kept running their routes continuously as well as all the L's!! However the LIRR operations were in terrible shape. For instance passengers were marooned for 2 days without power and heat. Joe I've lived all my life in Astoria except for military time. I enjoy your knowledgeable comments and remarks. Keeps my memory going. Thanks again Joe F!

My mom told a story about that snowstorm, she was working downtown and commuted from the northeast Bronx (the Esplanade station, that 40 years later I was commuting from going to the Financial district), and talking about coming out of the subway and stepping into snow drifts that were over her waist (and she was pretty tall for the times,around 5ft 6"). Amazing they could keep the transit going through that (it was officially close to 26"), seems like we get much lower snowstorms and it cripples transit , I remember years ago my uncle and his family got stuck on the 2 train at 180th coming back from a broadway show, and it wasn't particularly that big a storm. I don't know if they are more cautious today and shut the system down out of safety concerns/lawsuits, but also seems like the trains are affected more than they were back then, and that was a time when the subways were running at capacity, I think it matched what we have today on the subways in NYC. 

I can still picture that storm.  I lived at the northern tip of Hudson County, NJ.  All the busses had stopped running (many were stopped, stuck) on Bergenline Avenue, which after sundown was filled with people walking home, presumably from the NYC ferry slips in Weehawken.  I am told that the DL&W catenary went down, and steam locos were hauling the MU cars for days, with no heat.

RJR posted:

I can still picture that storm.  I lived at the northern tip of Hudson County, NJ.  All the busses had stopped running (many were stopped, stuck) on Bergenline Avenue, which after sundown was filled with people walking home, presumably from the NYC ferry slips in Weehawken.  I am told that the DL&W catenary went down, and steam locos were hauling the MU cars for days, with no heat.

Actually, surprised the people even noticed, those MU cars heating was pretty wonky to start with, your feet burned and the upper part froze *lol*. That catenary system could go down easily, pre the conversion the pantograph on some train would catch it the wrong way and instant cable on the track fouling up traffic...but I miss the green monsters, glad to have a  set of the ones Lionel produced

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...can_blizzard_of_1947

Googling will bring up much video and articles on the storm.

lionel1933 posted:

During the snow storm of 12-26-1947 the subways were kept running their routes continuously as well as all the L's!! However the LIRR operations were in terrible shape. For instance passengers were marooned for 2 days without power and heat. Joe I've lived all my life in Astoria except for military time. I enjoy your knowledgeable comments and remarks. Keeps my memory going. Thanks again Joe F!

Was this the snow storm where just as the LIRR was getting the plows out there was a grade crossing accident which tied things up long enough for the drifts to build?

Stuart

The snow fell  so rapily that the railroad found it impossible to keep up with the plowing.That afternoon at about4PM at the Woodside-61st street station on the eastbound platform of the Flushing L. Below me I saw a LIRR steam locomotive on the eastbound express track trying toget to Jamaica with no cars in tow behind it. The loco could not make any headwayIt would reverse and tried to forward many times to no avail.Watched a few minutes but had to continue my own trip. The reason the subways and L's is they ran every train possible possible with the intent to keep the rails clear of accumulated snow!  Their was a LIRR train with passengers on board on the Port Wabhington branch that was marooned for 2 days--no power and no heat!         

bluelinec4 posted:

Ben; absolutely fascinating that this existed in Manhattan. Do you know when the pic is from??? I don't see the West Side Highway or Henry Hudson anywhere.

lionel1933 posted:

The snow fell  so rapidly that the railroad found it impossible to keep up with the plowing.  That afternoon at about 4PM at the Woodside-61st street station on the eastbound platform of the Flushing EL.   Below me I saw a LIRR steam locomotive on the eastbound express track trying to get to Jamaica with no cars in tow behind it. The loco could not make any headway. It would reverse and tried to forward many times to no avail.Watched a few minutes but had to continue my own trip. The reason the subways and EL's is they ran every train possible possible with the intent to keep the rails clear of accumulated snow!  Their was a LIRR train with passengers on board on the Port Washington branch that was marooned for 2 days--no power and no heat!         (George)

Hello again George

I barely remember the Dec 26 1947 Blizzard but I do remember a number of significant snowstorms in NY City from 1950 and onward.  I rode the 3rd Ave El in a few -- my last large snow storm EL ride was one in the late winter of 1954 - - likely the last such Snow storm the EL had to deal with, heh, before it closed in Manhattan on Thurs 5-12-1955.

I assume you were age 10 to 13 back in 1947,  so this webpage with these photo you may like and quite well remember !!

On the webpage,  see the first photo sample, and some RED text under it stating  VIEW MORE -- and /or also at its lower right hand side see " 1-15 "  and two tiny arrows to its right.  Click either the red letters  VIEW MORE under the image,  or click the arrows and that photo will come up full size and you will see larger arrows to move from photo to photo, etc., in the 1 to 15 series.

Here is the LINK to the webpage   >>        BLIZZARD of 12-26-1947 - NY City photos

BELOW are some favorite PHOTOS on the IRT 3rd Ave EL in my collection from that 1947 Blizzard Period !

Regards !! - Joe F

==========================================================================

BELOW ----- View Northwest on the N/B E.166th Street local Station, Bronx 3rd Ave. EL, with a layup train of IRT Composite express train cars stored on center express track

BELOW ---- North at N. end of 3rd Ave EL uptown E. 76th Street Station platform to rear MUDC car of a N/B local headed to (my station) the E.84th Street  Station in distance, up the 7 block long steep hill !

BELOW -- View N/E at north end of the 3rd Ave EL South Ferry Terminal Station center-island platform  to the rear MUDC Car of a northbound departing 3rd Ave EL local.

BELOW ---- North from north end of the Uptown E.76th Street Local Station on the 3rd Ave El towards a S/B local of IRT EL MUDC  cars having departed the E.84th St. Local Station in distance, heading south to the E.76th St Local Station

Sorry Been but your last two posts are void of pictures... If that was your intentions.

Hello PRR

I have NO problems continually viewing Ben's 2 photos !

Note --  the two photos on Ben's two messages (Hudson River harbor freight yards aerial views ) show up fine and continuously visible when I access this thread page day after day.  it must be your browser which has an issue if only you don't see them !

Regards - Joe F

Joseph Frank posted

I barely remember the Dec 26 1947 Blizzard but I do remember a number of significant snowstorms in NY City from 1950 and onward.  I rode the 3rd Ave El in a few -- my last large snow storm EL ride was one in the late winter of 1954 - - likely the last such Snow storm the EL had to deal with, heh, before it closed in Manhattan on Thurs 5-12-1955.

Regards !! - Joe F

==========================================================================

BELOW ----- View Northwest on the N/B E.166th Street local Station, Bronx 3rd Ave. EL, with a layup train of IRT Composite express train cars stored on center express track

BELOW ---- North at N. end of 3rd Ave EL uptown E. 76th Street Station platform to rear MUDC car of a N/B local headed to (my station) the E.84th Street  Station in distance, up the 7 block long steep hill !

 

BELOW -- View N/E at north end of the 3rd Ave EL South Ferry Terminal Station center-island platform  to the rear MUDC Car of a northbound departing 3rd Ave EL local.

 

BELOW ---- North from north end of the Uptown E.76th Street Local Station on the 3rd Ave El towards a S/B local of IRT EL MUDC  cars having departed the E.84th St. Local Station in distance, heading south to the E.76th St Local Station

Joe,

  Hope you are well. Great pictures. Since your subway modeling is superb as far as use of shadows, did you ever attempt a snow scene?

Tom 

MNCW posted:

Joseph Frank posted

I barely remember the Dec 26 1947 Blizzard but I do remember a number of significant snowstorms in NY City from 1950 and onward.  I rode the 3rd Ave El in a few -- my last large snow storm EL ride was one in the late winter of 1954 - - likely the last such Snow storm the EL had to deal with, heh, before it closed in Manhattan on Thurs 5-12-1955.

Regards !! - Joe F

==========================================================================

BELOW ----- View Northwest on the N/B E.166th Street local Station, Bronx 3rd Ave. EL, with a layup train of IRT Composite express train cars stored on center express track

BELOW ---- North at N. end of 3rd Ave EL uptown E. 76th Street Station platform to rear MUDC car of a N/B local headed to (my station) the E.84th Street  Station in distance, up the 7 block long steep hill !

 

BELOW -- View N/E at north end of the 3rd Ave EL South Ferry Terminal Station center-island platform  to the rear MUDC Car of a northbound departing 3rd Ave EL local.

 

BELOW ---- North from north end of the Uptown E.76th Street Local Station on the 3rd Ave El towards a S/B local of IRT EL MUDC  cars having departed the E.84th St. Local Station in distance, heading south to the E.76th St Local Station

Joe,

  Hope you are well. Great pictures. Since your subway modeling is superb as far as use of shadows, did you ever attempt a snow scene?

Tom 

Hello Tom !!

Good to hear from you.  I am doing OK -- fairly well considering at this (heh) stage of my life -- still modeling and working here and there on the layout.

SNOW SCENES !!??   I sort of wondered about doing so and did a lot of research modeling wise on it,  Thus, Heck No !!

REAL SNOW melts and disappears (evaporates)  doing no damage to prototype structures and materials (developed to withstand outdoor weather and "water-snow-moisture")  However,  whatever available type of snow-replicating material (except that white cotton fluff stuff)  would be used to cover my El tracks, building roofs, streets, sidewalks, autos, etc., ... for photography or otherwise -- it would be one heck of a nightmare to remove it all from the tracks, El structure crevices and nooks, basically ANY crevices, crannies  and nooks, heh. 

And REAL SNOW - ie; taken into the train room from a raging (heh) snow storm outside in the real world - would be too "thick" of consistence as well as melt more quickly and wreak havoc and damage to any cardstock or paper created modeled items ..as well as to my street materials !

I have thought of doing a few trolley modules (suburban type) with "permanent" snow as part of the trackside scenery landscape.  These two modules would be kept attached together if they went to trolley shows.  I may look into that in the near future.

But, for my El and trolley system and its, heh, " trackside city",  its always either night (lights off)  or daytime sunny dry mild weather (lights on)  -- with no worries about wind, rain,  snow,  sand storms,  hurricanes or tornadoes,  heh  (except God forbid, "outside" the house / trainroom.)

Good to hear from you again Tom --  have to get together in Yonkers for a day !

Regards - Joe F

Here is real snow and me operating.  Too bad I'm on the other end of that G and you cant see me