On Getting the Flyer Y3 Scalified...

Very intersting!  I'd like to see some photos of the converted model. If this works and looks right on the Y-3 maybe the Challenger and BigBoy or other Lionel locos will follow. Makes for a fairly expensive locomotive but the alternative is nothing at all.....so if you want a Y-3 it's a bargain.

Butch

The previous Flyonel Big Boy wouldn't be worth the effort for the scale guys, it's oversized, somewhere around 1:58 proportion.  I would strongly consider having my Challenger converted if SSL&S decided offer conversions for it.

There was a small photo posted of a converted Y3 on S Scale Yahoo, but not a close up of the wheels.

I figure this is the best of both worlds for now.  You'd get a pretty good looking S scale articulated for around $1600 or so. If River Raisin were to import one or something similar now, I figure it would weigh in anywhere between $2500-$3000.  (A pre-owned Allegheny is going for $2500.)

Rusty

That is great news. I agree with Butch. As with most things in S scale, just having the option is half the battle. I've seen the Y3s going for $800 so that puts you around $1400 which as Rich pointed out is about half of what Dan would need for a RR model, but it is about half the detail that a RR model would be so I suppose it is just about right.

Did anyone say what Radius it will negotiate post conversion? I'm looking forward to seeing some video.

Thanks to S SCALE LOCOMOTIVE & SUPPLY for taking on this project.

It certainly gives me hope that if Lionel ever makes a heavy Santa Fe class, Heavy Mike, or Heavy Pacific that I might be able to get them on my pike.

I mentioned before on the forum that I would be working with a person to help with conversions.   I waited for Fred to be "ready" to tackle the Y3 conversion, and Ed lives fairly close to our Santa Clara facility.  Ed has facilitated the relationship with Fred and Lionel to bring these conversions to reality.

I saw the Y3 last week before O Scale West, and it looks great, runs great, and can be converted to DCC in the process of adding scale wheels (and Kaydee on the tender).

There might be interest in fitting scale flanges to the L-AF Mikado and Pacific if the costs were not prohibitive. There would be definte takers for converting Challengers.

Bob

I certainly don't know what the minimum radius of a converted Y3 would be, but there is the Y3's advantage of having two relatively short wheelbase engine sets pivoting like diesel trucks going for it.  I would expect it should be able to handle at least 27" radius.

Here's something I overlooked when copying Fred's initial post from Yahoo:

"It is anticipated that other locomotives will follow if the Y-3 effort is successful."

So, it looks like conversions for the previous models like the 2-8-2's, 4-6-2's and 4-6-6-4's are definitely a possibility.

At first I winced at the conversion cost, but seeing SSL&S is doing ALL the heavy lifting, by manufacturing the parts and doing the labor, the cost of the Y3 conversion seems more and more reasonable.

I'm quite happy with my N&W Y3 being a HiRail model, but I might just have to go looking for a Santa Fe or UP version for scalification...

Rusty

I have been hoping for either a board swap (I believe you said it was the radio board) or just sending my board to be reprogrammed. I'd like to avoid the cost and potential damage of shipping it back and forth across country.

I broke down and bought a Challenger because it was such an impressive locomotive. I was about to strip out all the extra electronics because I run DC; but if it can be converted to DC/DCC like the Y3 potentially can be and the SD70ACe is, I would be very interested in finding out how to do it and in purchasing a revised board. It would be shame to lose Railsounds and all the features built into the latest Lionel American Flyer equipment; and if I can access most of those features through DCC (or a Legacy version that would work with DC!), then investing in future Lionel equipment is a simple decision. 

I just received an email from Fred Rouse saying that the software conversion only works on engines being converted to scale, at least for now.

This is a major disappointment for me, as I don't want the scale conversion, but I very much want the DCC conversion. There are at least two others in my club who want DCC as well.

I'm very comfortable taking the Y3 apart, having had a Challenger apart to fix the smoke unit. I'd be happy with either a board swap, a software upgrade on my board, or just buying an upgraded board. I'd be happy to document the procedure and post it on my web site. I was the webmaster for S-Helper Service, and documented many DCC installs including Gilbert, American Models, S-Helper, and the AF Mikado.

Jon, I really hope Lionel doesn't forget the hirail operator. Well over 80% of S-Helper's DCC sales went to hirail.

The electronics shouldn't care on what the wheel profile is.

I suspect either Fred doesn't want to get bogged down in just doing software upgrades without wheel conversion, or there is a restriction placed on him not to do software alone.

Rusty

Bill,

I seem to recall Jon saying that all upcoming Flyer (at least the new scale stuff) will be DC/DCC compatible, like the upcoming SD70's.  It's buried in one of the posts here somewhere.

Please bear in mind, this whole Flyer-DCC thing evolved rather quickly over the past year.  I think Lionel is seriously looking at appealing to S in its all it's facets (although it may not seem like it sometimes...)

I know I have a Mikado I'd like scalified and am 95% sure about my Challenger, including a DCC upgrade on both.  If it takes some time for these things to get settled out, I'm willing to wait.

Rusty

Hi Folks, The general consensus at Lionel was that DCC and Scale wheels were fairly linked.  We could have put DCC in the Y3, and in retrospect we should have.  We are still evolving our product line in "S" and we don't expect to get it perfect out the gate.

The Y3 - for adding DCC operation with the loco as shipped (hi-rail wheels) is fairly simple.  It does take a bit of effort to open the loco to reprogram and test.   I don't suggest a board only approach, as many things go wrong in the code update process without the loco to test the conversion.  One idea may be to charge for a new board set, in that way if something is not right, you can go back to the original set.  Although that is not optimal, as that would cost $100, give or take.

I would like to help folks get DCC up and running where I can, but can't take this on personally as I have little time to spare.  I will see if I can get ElectricRR involved, that may pan out as an upgrade path.  Any other suggestions appreciated...

Jon:

As a primarily S scale guy interested in DC/DCC operation I would like to take a moment to commend you and the product managers at Lionel on the direction it is taking with the new AF line.  I am pleasantly surprised by the short time frame for the evolution from AC Legacy to DC and DCC compatability.  This is not the direction we (the S gauge community) have been lead to expect from Lionel.  After watching how the operating system compatibility has changed, I am looking forward to having the SD70's on the layout. 

I also wish to compliment you for entering into meaningful dialog in this forum.  It is not often we have the opportunity to speak directly to one who can affect change in the product line.  You have more than met expectations.

I also appreciate your willingness to address the situation with previously issued Lionel product upgrading to DC/DCC operation.  I know there are several hirail modelers as well as scale modelers who would be interested in having this option.

Thank you again for all you have done to accomodate and grow the AF S gauge community.

Roger W. Zuerlein