Opinions wanted on Yellow Belly Hudson

I had the 18043, I paid almost full retail based on photo in the catalog, dumb I know, but it looked so good. I sold it quickly, because I could not get over the fact that there was no cab detail.

Look for one with a crew

If you are running conventional, I would NOT touch the MTH model with PS3. There is a known PS3 defect that causes the engine to "lock up" when slowing down/stopping in conventional only. MTH is well aware but seems to have no interest, based on in-person and email communication.

I personally would look for an older PS2 or PS1 Railking model. I've seen the Lionel and it is a bit more accurate - notably the correct drive rods (MTH has an extra set the real one doesn't have). I've got the MTH PS2 circa 2006 production. It is and always has been a great runner. I've put, in the area of, 5,000 scale miles on mine and it keeps running. Bought it brand new at the time as well.

In terms of extra details, this thing isn't chock full of them. The real one is pretty "bare" as far as pipes, valves, etc.

If you have scale length cars the 18043 lionel will be the best choice. Beautiful engine for its time. The rail king lis much smaller but still beautiful. I upgraded my 18043 with a large can motor and cruise and it now runs with anything of today’s standards other than all the details.

I thought the 6-18043 was scale?

The 6-18043 staes that it is Semi-Scale.  I hope Lionel will do a scale one with Legacy and all the goodies before I make up my mind that I am done buying trains.

I have the MTH RK Yellow belly with PS3 and it runs and looks great. Great whistle. 

Mth has done a great job with imperial engines and RK scale. 

Dave

The Lionel model is the only version that is scale proportioned, at least since I’ve seen no other O gauge manufacturer make the Yellowbelly Hudson. The only thing that really made it semi scale was some of the detailing like the lack of cab interior detail as stated, but it is overall the correct size.

I’ve has mine for years, and still love it. Currently having it upgraded to can motor and Electric RR Cruise. The whistle from the old RailSonds 2 is still one of my favorites, something I feel the MTH models come up short on.

"The 6-18043 staes that it is Semi-Scale."

Here is why I hate the term "semi-scale" - some (manufacturers; civilians) use it to mean "less-detailed" and others use it to mean "less than 1:48 size" (as the RailKing one is). The Lionel C&O L2 Hudson is based on the Lionel Commodore Vanderbilt tooling, which is, in turn, based ultimately on the 1937 700E tooling, which is 1:48. My Lionel Commodore is certainly 1:48, so the C&O would pretty much have to be, too.

Here's the kicker: I placed my CV Hudson next to a 3rd Rail NYC J1 Hudson - and it'a actually a bit bigger, not smaller. I think that the casting thickness makes the CV a bit too wide, and I imagine that the Yellow Belly may be, too. The CV's run very well, Pullmor and all - especially when thy've been run in.

Why the 6-18043 would be described as "semi-scale" eludes me - it is full-size and is a well-detailed, streamlined engine. Nothing "semi" about it, so far as I can see. Big tender, too.

The C&O is a scale engine. I love the Twinkie.

I have the MTH and like it a lot. It is not scale but a real good size to look good. Runs like a top....looks good.....what else??

This blur between two rail scale trains and three rail keeps getting smaller the best of todays three rail has better detail than many Lobaugh and Max Gray locos. Some of the O scale steam locos from  All Nation are down right naked. However most would still refer to them as "Scale" They are more or less scale proportioned and run on 2 rail track. One can always add detail to please themselves however if the overall proportions are off there is little one can do about that but buy or build a new model.  When I attended my first York meet in 71 or 72 my impression when talking to other members was that Semi Scale referred to anything on 3 rails that was otherwise scale sized and bore a reasonable resemblance to something one would see on a real railroad . The original NYC, 700e and the Pennsy B6 would fall into this category. Though the 700e did have scale sized couplers and more or less scale wheel flanges it did run on three rail track even if it were T-rail. I would also group the original brass offerings of Williams and Weaver in this Semi Scale category. The first break in this original Semi Scale terminology that I noticed was in a K-Line catalog where Mr Kline was referring more to a level of detail than size and proportion. I was livid and felt he was corrupting  established terminology. Then along comes 3Rscale which in my opinion is an attempt to replace the term Semi Scale that K-Line had twisted into strictly a marketing term. I have opined on more than one occasion that representatives from the TCA, NMRA, LCCA.....etc. etc.  should find a smoke filled room (only original Lionel pills) and hammer out a set of terms that describe the spectrum between the finest 2 rail scale equipment and everything below that.  Add eBay to the group of representatives, seems everything on ebay that is O is "O Scale" whether it is or not. That is purely wishful thinking few of the eBay sellers could figure it out.   J

I have the Lionel Yellow Belly pulling a Williams Consist of 7 72' passenger cars and one Express Boxcar.  The only things I did to it are:

1. Upgraded the TMCC Board to the Electric RR AC/DC Commander for better speed control
2. Replaced the Railsounds 1.0 Board with the Lionel RS 5.0 Board for the #490 F-19 Pacific (which is the same cab number, but much better sounds!)
3. Changed to a reed switch and magnets to make it 4-chuffs per revolution

The Engine is a little wider than the cars, but looks great with them.  Yes, it is over-sized (which is why I think it is "semi-scaled"), but it still looks great with the consist! 

I purchased the Lionel back in the day when it first came out.  I also returned it the same day.  As good as it looked, it was a horrid runner.  Not your postwar motor.   Over the years I have had opportunity to work on several and they all run badly.   I am hoping Ryan Kunkle will do this engine in Legacy.   A while back, I picked up another and had a can motor installed and I converted it to DCS.  A great runner now.   I also installed a fan driven smoke unit.  The RK MTH is a great runner.  The only issue is that it is RK.    I have a set of Phoenix cars and 21 inch Lionel cars.

I never understood why Lionel called their engine semi-scale. It's not a perfect copy of the actual engine as its based on the old Lionel Hudson. That causes the drivers to be too large and some of the other dimensions to be off. However, it looks pretty much to scale, much, much more so than the Railking version. Comparing to the scale HO BLI C&O L1, the Lionel looks pretty close to scale.

Like Marty said, its an awful runner. I upgraded mine with a Timko DC motor and TAS EOB electronics. Much better, but not up to more modern Legacy and PS3 engines.

Ken

I have asked Mike Wolf many times to consider this locomotive and he is a no go.  I can see Ryan Kunkle doing this with modern electronics and whistle steam.   People love it or hate it.  I am a huge fan.  The locomotive is very heavy and will be a good puller with the DC motor and RCMC package.  

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

I purchased the Lionel back in the day when it first came out.  I also returned it the same day.  As good as it looked, it was a horrid runner.  Not your postwar motor.   Over the years I have had opportunity to work on several and they all run badly.   I am hoping Ryan Kunkle will do this engine in Legacy.   A while back, I picked up another and had a can motor installed and I converted it to DCS.  A great runner now.   I also installed a fan driven smoke unit.  The RK MTH is a great runner.  The only issue is that it is RK.    I have a set of Phoenix cars and 21 inch Lionel cars.

Nice Cahs......iam detecting a little Boston accent there...lol

An unusual and great looking locomotive in my book. I made the same conversion Marty did and it runs and smokes well with DCS. 

Dave Drake posted:

An unusual and great looking locomotive in my book. I made the same conversion Marty did and it runs and smokes well with DCS. 

what is the expense involved in this conversion and who is qualified to do it?

I have the MTH   30-1412-1 from 2006.  It is a beauty and smokes like an MTH.  I have always been a fan of streamliners, even when the engine is a shrouded steamer.  As a plus, the original 490 is in the B&O museum about 35 miles from my home.  It is awaiting restoration (and the million or so USD it will take to restore it).

I would love Lionel to make a Legacy version of the C&O Yellow Belly.  Would order one pronto!

I have the Lionel version that everyone else loves or hates.  Sure, it's loud (the motor), brash, and the sounds are crude.  The whistle, at full volume will blow you AWAY!  It's pretty cool. The early rail sounds are not all that bad.  It smokes pretty good.  Under a full load, it pulls hard, and you can hear the engine laboring around turns.  I am pulling eight 15" Williams and Lionel C&O cars.  It is an impressive train, no doubt.  I don't hate it, but I would like it to run a bit smoother.  I can (and probably will) live with my choice, as it is.  

The "cool" factor weighs heavily in my train room.  

So, there you are.  From a convention runner of easy to use toy trains.  

Cool looking engine.  It looks silver bellied and yellow chested from here.  Just sayin.

POTRZBE posted:

I have the MTH   30-1412-1 from 2006.  It is a beauty and smokes like an MTH.  I have always been a fan of streamliners, even when the engine is a shrouded steamer.  As a plus, the original 490 is in the B&O museum about 35 miles from my home.  It is awaiting restoration (and the million or so USD it will take to restore it).

Hope you live to see the 490 restored.  ASTA took SP Mikado 786 out of service for restoration in 1999 and they are still working on it.

http://www.austinsteamtrain.or...tion/locomotive-786/

What, me worry?