PA: O Gauge Capital of the World?

The Pennsy is one of my favorite roads (and the GG-1 my favorite engine), and I’ve lived in NE Pennsylvania for 23 years. One of my recent additions...

My perspective on this would be as follows, and in no particular order:

1. I believe the entire Railroad real-world began in Baltimore, Maryland, which meant a whole lot of RR traffic passing through Pennsylvania, in route to the rest of the USA, acquainting many residents with trains, historically.

2. Farming in the middle and eastern parts of Pennsylvania made their own demands on the railroads, establishing a need for RR lines running through those parts of the state.

3. Western Pennsylvania, where my hometown is located, as part of metropolitan Pittsburgh, had the steel industry, located nearly everywhere, up and down the rivers, such as the Youghiogheny,  Monongahela, Allegheny, and Ohio. Railroads ran through towns and around them, serving the mills which ruled life. The railroads were omnipresent in life, back in the 40's, 50's, and 60's. Here are photos of a train running right thru downtown McKeesport, PA, (from the RRArchives, by James Gillin)and when I say "right thru," I mean that literally because , as you can see here, the train headed for the steel mill (National Tube, US Steel, Corp) crosses directly across one of the main-drags of the shopping district. Since just about everybody was making their money to spend downtown, at the steel mill, or at a business serving the mill workers' needs, nobody was going to complain about the trains stopping pedestrian and vehicular traffic in town. The mills and the trains ruled life.

4. Passenger and freight trains ran through and from Pennsylvania to the Midwest, and points beyond.

5. The meat processing plants of the Midwest received trains from the West and Southwest, I believe, which in turn sent trains loaded with meat to the RRs of the East, which included Pennsylvania, for sure.

These are just a few of the reasons I would suggest that Pennsylvania was accustomed to having trains in everyday life, all the time and everywhere. I do not recall a single day when I did not hear a train whistle blow, or see a train passing through life, or feel its thunder in my chest as it muscled by, with me standing as close as I could get to it.

So, Pennsylvanians having trains as toys or as a hobby was as natural as playing baseball and football. They were part of Pennsylvanian life.

…………………………………………………………………

FrankM (a former steel worker and freight train yard intruder, climbing atop parked freight cars, sliding in and out of empty hopper cars, as recreation, when a teenager.)

P.S. The first trains I bought as an adult, in 1995, when I officially entered our hobby , had the PRR name on them. As well as other RR names I had been accustomed to seeing as a boy throughput Pennsylvania...

...such as the Erie. And Erie Lackawanna. And B&O

Frank, I would love to read the rest of your above very interesting historical perspective when you get a chance to finish it.

In addition to being blown away as a child by Penn Station in NYC and the train there my mother and I boarded, headed by a GG1, to travel to Princeton Junction, NJ, I was also blown away by the endless PRR coal drags that passed by the swimming pool at Hopewell Country Club in NJ.

Below are my Lionel Postwar Brunswick Green GG1, K Line Tuscan Red GG1, and MTH Railking Proto 1 Tuscan Red GG1:

Arnold

Arnold:

You need to cast your net a bit wider as you'll likely find a lot more of us "displaced Pennsylvanian's" than current residents. 

I grew up in Lewistown, PA, the midpoint of the famed PRR Middle Division - halfway between Harrisburg and Altoona.  To have been a child in that area in the mid-50's to mid-60's made it natural to develop an interest in trains and in the PRR in particular.   My "great uncle" was a boilermaker at the Juniata Shops up in Altoona and numerous classmates had fathers who worked for PRR either in T&E service or at the yards and shops in Enola and Altoona.  I also had a classmate whose dad was the local PRR agent in Lewistown.

My paternal grandparents had a summer cottage near Mattawanna, PA that was located between the PRR mainline and the Juniata River.  I would stay with them multiple weeks each summer and a portion of each day was spent watching trains or listening to railroad stories told by the great uncle who had a cottage a five minute walk from my grandparents.  On Sunday's in the mid-1950's; Dad would load me into the car after dinner and we'd go get chocolate milk shakes and then drive to the station to watch trains.  It's incomprehensible now but, our primary goal of those excursions was to see a diesel.  (PRR ran steam on the Middle Division longer than most other areas of their system.)

Insofar as toy trains; every one of our relatives and most of my friends had trains set up around the Christmas tree during the holidays.  Our family was exclusively Lionel but, I had several friends who had American Flyer. 

So yes; in addition to Pennsylvania being "God's gift" to the mid-Atlantic region of the U.S.; it was also a mecca for trains - both real and toy - for a kid growing up in the mid-50's to mid-60's.

Curt

P.S. History is repeating itself today.  Two of my nieces who still live in the Lewistown area have young boys and they take them to the Lewistown station a couple times each week to watch trains.  And each of the boys has toy trains as well. 

Sorry but the Mecca of O gauge is actually in Paterson NJ

Yeah Ben; but you guys are "closet" Pennsylvanian's. 

Curt

bluelinec4 posted:

Sorry but the Mecca of O gauge is actually in Paterson NJ

Don't know about that, Bluelinec4, but NJ is certainly another great RR State, if for no other reason than the PRR passed through it so often. LOL

I am also very fond of the NJ Central. Below are 2 of my favorite NJ Central locomotives: an MTH Proto 1 FM Trainmaster smoking diesel and LionChief + Pacific steamer

Arnold

I thought Lionelville is the O gauge Capital of the world

bluelinec4 posted:

Sorry but the Mecca of O gauge is actually in Paterson NJ

Thanks for the laugh, Ben!

George

juniata guy posted:

 

I grew up in Lewistown, PA, the midpoint of the famed PRR Middle Division - halfway between Harrisburg and Altoona. 

You and I probably watched the same trains at some point.  I grew up in Huntingdon, PA, not far from you and also on the PRR 4-track main line.

To have been a child in that area in the mid-50's to mid-60's made it natural to develop an interest in trains and in the PRR in particular.   My great uncle was a boilermaker at the Juniata Shops up in Altoona and numerous classmates had fathers who worked for PRR either in T&E service or at the yards and shops in Enola and Altoona.  I also had a classmate whose dad was the local PRR agent in Lewistown.

It was the same in Huntingdon.  Our neighbor, two doors up, was a PRR conductor.  When we later moved to another house, our neighbor around the corner was a retired PRR engineer (sadly, I never knew this till years later, after he died).  My wife's grandfather was an air-brake inspector at Altoona.

Huntingdon had its own local switching yard, the remains of which are still visible, and a large icing plant where my father once applied for a summer job (he didn't get it).  There was also a big freight-car-to-truck transfer facility.  Sadly, both it and the short-line Huntingdon & Broad Top Mountain that interchanged with the PRR closed in 1953.  I don't know Lewistown so well, but I imagine things must have been much the same.

I was born in Mount Carmel, PA, heart of the coal country, and it was served by the Erie, the Reading and the PRR.

Later, my family moved to Bloomsburg, PA, where my father went to school.  There I could watch trains of the DL&W and Reading.  A town without rail action was fairly rare.

On Sundays in the mid-1950's; Dad would load me into the car after dinner and we'd go get chocolate milk shakes and then drive to the station to watch trains.  It's incomprehensible now but, our primary goal of those excursions was to see a diesel. 

It's not so unbelievable.  From 1948 to 1952, when we lived in Bloomsburg, one of my family's nighttime activities (one of the few we could afford at the time) was parking near the railroad bridge across the Susquehanna at night, and watching the trains come in, especially the passenger trains with their warmly-lit windows giving glimpses of strangers on their way to exotic locations.  And it was the diesels (mainly F3s, I suppose; we called them "streamliners") that got our greatest attention.  They had an air of bold modernism about them that still impressed people at the turn of the decade.

Insofar as toy trains; every one of our relatives and most of my friends had trains set up around the Christmas tree during the holidays.  Our family was exclusively Lionel but, I had several friends who had American Flyer. 

Interestingly, we were the only family I knew in Huntingdon that put up trains around the tree.  In fact, apart from one of my friends who had a Marx streamlined set, I was the only one who had trains at all.  We had two authorized dealers in town, so someone must have had them, but if so, I never met them.

So yes; in addition to Pennsylvania being "God's gift" to the mid-Atlantic region of the U.S.; it was also a mecca for trains - both real and toy - for a kid growing up in the mid-50's to mid-60's.

You're right.  Pennsylvania was once thick with railroading action of all kinds.  It didn't occur to me until years later that maybe not every state was so lucky.

 

Pennsylvania certainly has its share of avid railroad hobbyists and train shops. 

I believe Ben was referring to the phenomenal NJ Hirailers layout as the ‘mecca’ of O gauge. 

Huntingdon had its own local switching yard, the remains of which are still visible, and a large icing plant where my father once applied for a summer job (he didn't get it).  There was also a big freight-car-to-truck transfer facility.  Sadly, both it and the short-line Huntingdon & Broad Top Mountain that interchanged with the PRR closed in 1953.  I don't know Lewistown so well, but I imagine things must have been much the same.

Balshis:

My Dad was born and spent the first couple years of his life in Huntingdon.  My grandfather worked at the icing plant you mention during the 1920's.  My grandmother was from Lewistown and, when she became pregnant with my uncle, they decided to move to Lewistown to be closer to her family.  My grandfather took a job at the Viscose plant over near the PRR station in Lewistown and worked there from about the mid-1930's till retirement in 1969.

As a kid; I can remember our family driving up to Huntingdon to see Dad's Aunt Helen and Aunt Grace.  I can still remember the old crossing watchman's shanty that stood across the tracks from the Huntingdon station.

Thanks for the memory jog!

Curt

Arnold, you are right !  so my wife & I are bailing out of Oklahoma & moving (back) to PA !

Did you folks know that Lackawanna has a connection to PA, NY & NJ?

I just Googled it. Lackawanna is a City or Town in NY State in Erie County, Lackawanna is also a County in the State of PA, and Lake Lackawanna is in the State of NJ.

Anyway, I also love the sound of Lackawanna, probably an American Indian name.

Here is my favorite Lackawanna locomotive, the classic Postwar FM Trainmaster, a great, smooth, powerful puller:

Back around 1950 when I still lived in Floresville (TX) I would go to my grandmothers house often.  Her property backed up to the tracks.  It was probably the Texas & Pacific.  When the train was coming up from the south there was a slight grade and the engine would work a little harder.  The windows at the rear of the house would start rattling so I knew there was a train.  I would fly out the door, run down the drive, scale the gate between the house and the back lot and make it to the rear fence in time to see the engine billowing smoke as it approached.  While not the Pennsy or the NYC, at eight years old I am not sure it made a difference.  However, my first set a couple of years later was pulled by a 671RR Steam Turbine.

Google trends search result of "O gauge" reveals that PA is truly the O Gauge Capitol of the World.  The results are relative to one another.

juniata guy posted:

I can remember our family driving up to Huntingdon to see Dad's Aunt Helen and Aunt Grace.  I can still remember the old crossing watchman's shanty that stood across the tracks from the Huntingdon station.

 

That shanty was removed in the Seventies.  But the last time I saw it, it had been moved to the Altoona railroad museum.  You can see it in this early-Fifties photo of the HBT.  I believe this picture was taken in 1954, as the equipment of the abandoned railroad was being sold:

OGR Forum Member Map - PA wins again!  

Moved to Philly suburbs in 1964, fell in with a bunch of PRR and B&O foamers. Never looked back. Actually switched to 3-rail O scale after moving to California, where I hold out against the ATSF, UP, SP foamers. It's fun to run my Cincinatti Limited (well, much of it). at the club.

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Did you folks know that Lackawanna has a connection to PA, NY & NJ?

I just Googled it. Lackawanna is a City or Town in NY State in Erie County, Lackawanna is also a County in the State of PA, and Lake Lackawanna is in the State of NJ.

Anyway, I also love the sound of Lackawanna, probably an American Indian name.

Here is my favorite Lackawanna locomotive, the classic Postwar FM Trainmaster, a great, smooth, powerful puller:

 

 

Lackawanna River in northeastern PA too Arnold!  I imagine that’s where the Lackawanna” in the Delaware, Lackawanna & Western came from.

 Curt

JD2035RR posted:

OGR Forum Member Map - PA wins again!  

Holy Cow, JD! I can't believe how you proved this with all this data and graphs.

What Juniata Guy didn't mention was that on a windless night, heavy with dew, you could hear the train horns echoing out of the Narrows,

Jan

Bill DeBrooke posted:

Back around 1950 when I still lived in Floresville (TX) I would go to my grandmothers house often.  Her property backed up to the tracks.  It was probably the Texas & Pacific.  When the train was coming up from the south there was a slight grade and the engine would work a little harder.  The windows at the rear of the house would start rattling so I knew there was a train.  I would fly out the door, run down the drive, scale the gate between the house and the back lot and make it to the rear fence in time to see the engine billowing smoke as it approached.  While not the Pennsy or the NYC, at eight years old I am not sure it made a difference.  However, my first set a couple of years later was pulled by a 671RR Steam Turbine.

Bill, I believe your 671RR Steam Turbine is essentially the same, if not identical except for the number, to my Postwar Pennsy 681 Steam Turbine. 

I don't know if you still have your engine, or whether it is still running, so I thought you and others might like to see my 681:

And here it is in action, pulling coal and oil:

I believe Postwar locomotives this size and like this one, and the 6022 ATSF NW2 Diesel, with Magnetraction were perfectly designed to navigate Lionel's 031 curves and 022 switches. 

They hug the track the way my MiniCooper with stick shift hugs the road.

Arnold

Jan posted:

What Juniata Guy didn't mention was that on a windless night, heavy with dew, you could hear the train horns echoing out of the Narrows,

Jan

Jan:

My younger sister lives in Burnham and will text me occasionally when she’s sitting on their back deck to say she can hear the trains “in town”.

Curt

juniata guy posted:

My younger sister lives in Burnham and will text me occasionally when she’s sitting on their back deck to say she can hear the trains “in town”.

 

I believe her.  In Huntingdon, the tracks are down along the Juniata river, and you can hear the horns all over town.  It's a very nostalgic sound when I'm there visiting relatives.

When I was a kid, it was PRR whistles, of course.  But you can't have everything.

--John

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Bill DeBrooke posted:

Back around 1950 when I still lived in Floresville (TX) I would go to my grandmothers house often.  Her property backed up to the tracks.  It was probably the Texas & Pacific.  When the train was coming up from the south there was a slight grade and the engine would work a little harder.  The windows at the rear of the house would start rattling so I knew there was a train.  I would fly out the door, run down the drive, scale the gate between the house and the back lot and make it to the rear fence in time to see the engine billowing smoke as it approached.  While not the Pennsy or the NYC, at eight years old I am not sure it made a difference.  However, my first set a couple of years later was pulled by a 671RR Steam Turbine.

Bill, I believe your 671RR Steam Turbine is essentially the same, if not identical except for the number, to my Postwar Pennsy 681 Steam Turbine. 

I don't know if you still have your engine, or whether it is still running, so I thought you and others might like to see my 681:

And here it is in action, pulling coal and oil:

I believe Postwar locomotives this size and like this one, and the 6022 ATSF NW2 Diesel, with Magnetraction were perfectly designed to navigate Lionel's 031 curves and 022 switches. 

They hug the track the way my MiniCooper with stick shift hugs the road.

Arnold

As a kid the great thing about my 671 was that you could hold the coupler on the tender, turn the transformer all the way up and the engine would go no where but smoke like a demon.  It did not have magna traction.

The bad news was that it would pull very little.  When I finally got a 681 years later with magna traction I double headed them pulling a long (for the time) coal train.  That was my favorite train to run.

JD2035RR posted:

OGR Forum Member Map - PA wins again!  

Not surprising as I believe there was a study of TCA membership showing similar results with Pennsylvania residents outnumbering members in any other state.  However, those statistics only count members by state of current residence and as a result don’t show the true number of Pennsy fans who are likely native Pennsylvanians now living outside Pennsylvania in places like Florida, North Carolina, Georgia, etc.  where we have moved for employment or retirement.

Bill

juniata guy posted:

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Did you folks know that Lackawanna has a connection to PA, NY & NJ?

I just Googled it. Lackawanna is a City or Town in NY State in Erie County, Lackawanna is also a County in the State of PA, and Lake Lackawanna is in the State of NJ.

Anyway, I also love the sound of Lackawanna, probably an American Indian name.

Here is my favorite Lackawanna locomotive, the classic Postwar FM Trainmaster, a great, smooth, powerful puller:

 

 

Lackawanna River in northeastern PA too Arnold!  I imagine that’s where the Lackawanna” in the Delaware, Lackawanna & Western came from.

 Curt

Of course, we also have the Erie Lackawanna, another great name for a railroad.

Bill DeBrooke posted:

Back around 1950 when I still lived in Floresville (TX) I would go to my grandmothers house often.  Her property backed up to the tracks.  It was probably the Texas & Pacific.

You mean Southern Pacific, right?  SP ran through Floresville.  Missouri Pacific ran through Pleasanton.  Texas & Pacific ran east to west across north Texas.

What, me worry?

Moonson posted:

My perspective on this would be as follows, and in no particular order:

1. I believe the entire Railroad real-world began in Baltimore, Maryland, which meant a whole lot of RR traffic passing through Pennsylvania, in route to the rest of the USA, acquainting many residents with trains, historically.

2. Farming in the middle and eastern parts of Pennsylvania made their own demands on the railroads, establishing a need for RR lines running through those parts of the state.

3. Western Pennsylvania, where my hometown is located, as part of metropolitan Pittsburgh, had the steel industry, located nearly everywhere, up and down the rivers, such as the Youghiogheny,  Monongahela, Allegheny, and Ohio. Railroads ran through towns and around them, serving the mills which ruled life. The railroads were omnipresent in life, back in the 40's, 50's, and 60's. Here are photos of a train running right thru downtown McKeesport, PA, (from the RRArchives, by James Gillin)and when I say "right thru," I mean that literally because , as you can see here, the train headed for the steel mill (National Tube, US Steel, Corp) crosses directly across one of the main-drags of the shopping district. Since just about everybody was making their money to spend downtown, at the steel mill, or at a business serving the mill workers' needs, nobody was going to complain about the trains stopping pedestrian and vehicular traffic in town. The mills and the trains ruled life.

4. Passenger and freight trains ran through and from Pennsylvania to the Midwest, and points beyond.

5. The meat processing plants of the Midwest received trains from the West and Southwest, I believe, which in turn sent trains loaded with meat to the RRs of the East, which included Pennsylvania, for sure.

These are just a few of the reasons I would suggest that Pennsylvania was accustomed to having trains in everyday life, all the time and everywhere. I do not recall a single day when I did not hear a train whistle blow, or see a train passing through life, or feel its thunder in my chest as it muscled by, with me standing as close as I could get to it.

So, Pennsylvanians having trains as toys or as a hobby was as natural as playing baseball and football. They were part of Pennsylvanian life.

…………………………………………………………………

FrankM (a former steel worker and freight train yard intruder, climbing atop parked freight cars, sliding in and out of empty hopper cars, as recreation, when a teenager.)

P.S. The first trains I bought as an adult, in 1995, when I officially entered our hobby , had the PRR name on them. As well as other RR names I had been accustomed to seeing as a boy throughput Pennsylvania...

...such as the Erie. And Erie Lackawanna. And B&O

And don't forget all the coal that was mined in Pennsylvania and hauled away in railroad cars.

Bill (a Pittsburgh native with one grandfather working for the PRR and one a coal miner) 

Here is an edited  post of mine from June 30, 2008:

"I grew up in the NE PA mountains, where the L&WV decided to build an interurban railroad between Scranton and Wilkes-Barre in front of my parents' house, so I could watch trains daily. Later, even after it went out of business, the Erie and later the DL&W continued to run freight trains on the line for my enjoyment. I grew up in an anthracite coal mining region (both grandparents worked in the mines) and I became familiar with the LV; PRR; D&H; CNJ; NW&O; WB&E; the aforesaid DL&W; and RDG. There were tracks everywhere: tucked on the side of mountains, up mountains, between mountains, down mountains--all to get out the coal. A cornucopia of trains. The coal mining is almost all gone today, however. I played on Erie hoppers at the Conlon mine sidings as a kid, with my brother, while my grandmother smilingly approved. These were my trains. So, at age 3, I gravitated immediately to Lionel trains. My father, a non-coal miner and self-employed, fueled trains: every Xmas from 1953 to 1960. Then, I spent my earnings on after Xmas sales for more Lionel (I worked part-time for him pasting hinges in stamp books sold to collectors). I learned to negotiate for trains after Xmas, when the stores in those days wanted to clear inventory at 50% (or more) discounts for cash."

I live and work today in Eastern PA, where in altered form much railroading continues.

Mark

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

This life long New Yorker even loves the sound of the name: Pennsylvania.

When I see a Post or Reply on this Forum, which I find moving or interesting, I check the author's profile, and often discover that he/she (almost always he) is from the State of Pennsylvania. Do you all agree that an inordinately high percentage of Forum members are from Pennsylvania?

And then, there is the Mecca of O Gauge railroaders: York, Pennsylvania, where all the truly serious hobbyists religiously go for the massive train show at least once per year. I've only been there once in my life with my wife and young children in the mid 1990s, but certainly plan to go back soon, probably with an empty wallet (any money in my wallet would surely be spent). LOL

And then there is the Standard of the World, the Pennsylvania Railroad, and IMO the greatest train station of all time: the original Penn Station in NYC.

And then there is the arguably most awesome locomotive of all time: the PRR  GG1.

And what about the charming Pennsy K4 Pacific? 

And then there is IMO one of the best high rail O Gauge train layouts in the World in the home of Phil Klopp, one of our Forum members, in Easton. Pennsylvania. Now I know there are many other great O Gauge layouts, but Phil's layout is the best I have seen in person, which just happens to be in Pennsylvania. And he has many models of Pennsy locomotives and train cars, and features a beautifully scenicked PRR horse shoe curve and Starruca (sp?) Viaduct.

I can go on and on about Pennsylvania, the Pennsylvania Railroad and O Gauge Trains.

If you have a passion for the Pennsy, you can share it here.

Arnold

 

 

 

Also there are O-gauge "public" toy train layouts at the Toy Train Museum and Choo-Choo Barn in Strasburg, the Carnegie Science Center in Pittsburgh and Roadside America in Shartlesville (which may not be there much longer per several recent threads on this Forum).  Then there’s the 1:1 scale trains at Steamtown near Scranton and at the Pennsylvania Railroad Museum and the Strasburg Railroad in Strasburg.. 

I’m sure I left out several others.

Bill (PA native with a grandfather who was a PRR employee)

I’m a Pennsylvania transplant. Born and raised in central PA and moved for work to the toy train desert of north Louisiana.

"I’m sure I left out several others."

One would be the New Hope and Ivyland, another nice excursion ride in Eastern PA...

Wow, could the Hennings' of Henning's Trains hold forth on this topic...

My Dad was from Pennsylvania and I recall seeing trains on our way from Virginia to visit his brother.  I think the trains were actually in Delaware though since his brother did not live near the tracks in Pennsylvania.  

The GG1 is without a doubt my favorite engine. In the 40's I would go down the stairs in Penn station to the tracks and watch the GG1's come in and go out.

Born in the Burgh(Pittsburgh) for you non “yinzers” got my first Lionel Train 2 weeks before my first Christmas 1953 at the ripe old age of 9 months still have to this day. Left Pa in 1962 moved to FL. I got married to the greatest gal on earth in 1983 our second Thanksgiving together my father told her I was taking her back to PA she laugh and said she was born and raised in Miami and was never leaving. We finally moved back to PA in 1990 and just built our retirement home in a little place just outside State College called Potters Mills. By the way she loves it here. The new house gives me 2000 sq ft of basement and it will be All Trains. PA is the greatest railroad state in this great country the home of the Standard Railroad of the World. Don’t forget Strasburg, PA Railroad Museum, Altoona and of course the Greatest Railroad Engineering project ever accomplished Hourseshoe Curve. So lmportant the Nazis targeted it during WWII but failed. Not to brag just proud to by from PA. 

eddie g posted:

The GG1 is without a doubt my favorite engine. In the 40's I would go down the stairs in Penn station to the tracks and watch the GG1's come in and go out.

Eddie, do you remember the beautiful light at the original Penn Station that came through the huge windows in the ceiling?

Don't you wish you could see that light and those GG1s there again?

Speaking of nostalgia.

If only the original Penn Station was historically preserved. I remember reading something, maybe on another Forum post a while ago, that the loss of Penn Station inspired the historic preservation movement in this country.

eddie g posted:

The GG1 is without a doubt my favorite engine. In the 40's I would go down the stairs in Penn station to the tracks and watch the GG1's come in and go out.

I've always wondered (being from Pittsburgh,) what sound(s) did they make as they "started up" (were "turned on?) and moved out?

FrankM