Photo of AF Steam with black drivers?

Straight out of history: a 21085 Pikemaster Pacific with original black driver tires:

Rusty

Thanks Rusty, but I'm looking for photos of the higher end locos that came with whitewalls.

All of the postwar Flyer steam locos came with whitewalls, until at the very end they made a few without them. The whitewalls were the insulator, since two rail trains need at least one side insulated. The last run of locos had Nylon centers on the wheels, so they could have aluminum rims without white insulators. Some of the later ones had all plastic drivers, so they did not need insulators either.

If you get any Flyer steam loco, you could always paint the whitewalls black.

Can some please explain to me why I find the lines of that Pikemaster engine so appealing??? (And that low angle photo really sets it off.)

What is "Pikemaster" by the way?

Andre

Hi Andre,

The Pikemaster line of Flyer was sort of a last ditch effort at survival for Gilbert in the mid 60's.  In an effort to reduce the price to be competitive, they went to a two position reverse unit instead of the four position.  The Pikemaster line also had its own track system that was extremely CHEAP.  No more "T" shaped rails.  They were simple inverted "U"s.  The tie spacing was more prototypical, but very thin plastic and a tighter radius.  That necessitated a modification of some of the rolling stock.   Some needed shorter steps, for example to negotiate the tight radius track.  Steamers had simplified valve gear and the drivers had plastic centers for insulation with metal rims instead of the three piece ones previously.  Two pieces cost less than three.  Simple math.  Also molded in hand rails.  The couplers didn't open any more, and they were molded as one piece with the truck frames.  Not as robust as the metal ones, and it's difficult finding them on one piece any more.  That's it in a nutshell.  More can be found with a bit of research on the Flyer sites, maybe even the NASG one.

The locomotive is a simple Pacific with the black drivers.  One of the most common made.  It does indeed look nice though.  The Delta trailing truck is a nice touch.  Put a can motor in these babies and they become great runners.

 

 

Actually, no one has answered Jonathan's question of a picture with the modern greay/black insulators on the metal-centered drivers. I do suspect they will look much like the 21085 in Rusty's picture. Late in production, but a bit before the pikemaster track/line came about ACG went from metal center drivers to plastic centered drivers and split chassis The split chassis eliminated drilling axle holes in the frame and assembling drive wheels on the chassis. now the wheels were mounted on the axles out of the chassis, speeding up production. The first plastic drive wheels had painted on whitewalls to resemble earlier production and catalog illustrations. later the painting was dropped; another cost-savings. The only engine withe the aluminum rims were (suprisingly) the Frontiersman, the Hudson and K-5; I've not seen a Northern with them, but it's possible., the Atlantics and other Pacifics got plastic drivers with rubber-band traction tires. Very late in production, the tenders got plastic truck bodies with the pikemaster one-piece couplers.

laming posted:

Can some please explain to me why I find the lines of that Pikemaster engine so appealing??? (And that low angle photo really sets it off.)

What is "Pikemaster" by the way?

Andre

It's the black-wall's...  I specifically looked for this version way back when.  A white-walled 20185 isn't as attractive (in my eyes.)

And, it runs like a champ.

Rusty

One has to look no further than recent Lionel/Flyer to see what the Northern looks like without white-walls:

Rusty

laming posted:

 

What is "Pikemaster" by the way?

Andre

Pikemaster was a last ditch effort by Gilbert to reduce costs and make the track look more realistic. The pikemaster name applied to the track and the trucks.

The trucks were one piece plastic, including the couplers. The couplers were split so that they could spread out in order to couple, but often the split would widen and the cars would not stay coupled.

The track had multiple ties, so as to look like HO track. The rails did not have the familiar T section, but were U shaped, somewhat like the rails on Lionel O gauge fastrack. The curves were tighter than regular American Flyer curves, so the whole system was more like a Flyer version of O-27, compared to regular Flyer track.

New locos were introduced that would run on the tighter curves (Casey Jones 4-4-0 steam and some very non-scale F-3 locos). It was the first time Flyer locos were not in proper proportion.  Also, the GP-7 lost its steps so that it could turn sharper.

All in all, it was very disappointing for me, even as a twelve year old,  to see my beloved Flyer line cheapened and made less realistic.

I too, was disappointed with the "New" offerings, especially the F units; it all looked like Marx stuff to me (not disparaging Marx collectors, Marx made some interesting stuff, and it is really reliable). The new tie spacing didn't bother me, but the tighter radius and the non- T Rail track was unforgivable, in my book. The shortened steps on the GPs wasn't all that was changed; the Baldwins lost their front & rear facing steps, the PAs their metal ladders and clear portholes, the passenger obs cars lost the illuminated drumhead too--and the red rooftop tail light. the curtain was falling and desperate measures were taken that (I think) hastened the demise-of course the buyout by the Hollywood Rather folks really did ACG in. So many marketing blunders in such a short period of time. But this far afield of the "black sidewalls" question. Some railroads did paint the driver tires faces white or silver both for aesthetics and to make is easier to spot any cracks forming in the tire.

traindavid posted:

The only engine with the aluminum rims were (suprisingly) the Frontiersman, the Hudson and K-5; I've not seen a Northern with them, but it's possible., ...

The 21140 Northern.

Bob

Bob, thanks, I didn't know if the Northern got re-tooled for the split chassis system. Were the driver centers box-poxed like the Northern metal centers, or did they just use the same centers as the other engines. I thought it was surprising that the Frontiersman loco got the aluminum rims, as only the high-end locos did otherwise. It could be because of the red driver centers. Another minor detail on the Northerns is the trailing truck sides, they were retooled simplifying the side's shape. The Floynel versions also use the later trailing truck.

My #21140 Northern has aluminum driver rims..

Paul, great pic, very nice engine. Looks like they used the same driver centers, wondered about that as the cost of a mold just for the Northerns seemed a bit pricey for the times--although they did do a special run of the metal centers for the Northerns.

I forgot to include that the metal centers for the Northerns was for the earlier production runs, '47-'56 (or so). And back in '47 demand for trains was pretty high, so there were more $$ available for tooling.