PLEASE HELP IDENTIFY

Since the Windows have color sillouettes, I would venture a guess they were made by Samhongsa of Korea in the late 1980's. Also stress the cars are made of Aluminum as any new passenger cars are now being made of plastic.

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Since the Windows have color sillouettes, I would venture a guess they were made by Samhongsa of Korea in the late 1980's. Also stress the cars are made of Aluminum as any new passenger cars are now being made of plastic.

Thanks.  But what type of cars would you call them?  For example - they're not Pullmans, are they?

Ponz

I see a couple of coaches, a dome car, a baggage car, and an observation car.  Looks like a complete 5 car set.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I see a couple of coaches, a dome car, a baggage car, and an observation car.  Looks like a complete 5 car set.

Hi John, but they are not heavyweights, for example.  Are they Vistas?

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I see a couple of coaches, a dome car, a baggage car, and an observation car.  Looks like a complete 5 car set.

20th Century Limited?? Lightweight Coach?

Ponz posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I see a couple of coaches, a dome car, a baggage car, and an observation car.  Looks like a complete 5 car set.

20th Century Limited?? Lightweight Coach?

How about "New York Central two-tone gray, streamlined passenger car set."?

Found them. They appear to be 20th Century Limited cars.

Ponz

Before 1970 three companies built 90% of all US passenger cars Pullman Standard,  American Car & Foundry and Budd. These Williams cars are models of Budd Stainless Steel cars the first of which were ordered by AT&SF in 1937. Pullman and ACF were caught flatfooted and came out with cars featuring corrugated stainless sides. Though not a structural member of the car as on the Budd cars. These ACF and Pullman cars all suffered from a similar problem.  The stainless panels simply riveted on the original steel sides allowed water to collect between the stainless panels and the steel, many rusted out within ten years. Your headline could read.

Williams: New York Central 5 car Aluminum Streamline Passenger set. Gunrunner, mentioned your consist. 2 coaches, dome, baggage and observation.

JohnActon posted:

Before 1970 three companies built 90% of all US passenger cars Pullman Standard,  American Car & Foundry and Budd. These Williams cars are models of Budd Stainless Steel cars the first of which were ordered by AT&SF in 1937. Pullman and ACF were caught flatfooted and came out with cars featuring corrugated stainless sides. Though not a structural member of the car as on the Budd cars. These ACF and Pullman cars all suffered from a similar problem.  The stainless panels simply riveted on the original steel sides allowed water to collect between the stainless panels and the steel, many rusted out within ten years. Your headline could read.

Williams: New York Central 5 car Aluminum Streamline Passenger set. Gunrunner, mentioned your consist. 2 coaches, dome, baggage and observation.

 

Many thanks for the detailed description John.  So, I was mistaken about them being "20th Century Limited" cars.  Would "Budd Stainless Steel" be a historically correct description?

Again - Thank you 

Ponz posted:

JohnActon posted:

Before 1970 three companies built 90% of all US passenger cars Pullman Standard,  American Car & Foundry and Budd. These Williams cars are models of Budd Stainless Steel cars the first of which were ordered by AT&SF in 1937. Pullman and ACF were caught flatfooted and came out with cars featuring corrugated stainless sides. Though not a structural member of the car as on the Budd cars. These ACF and Pullman cars all suffered from a similar problem.  The stainless panels simply riveted on the original steel sides allowed water to collect between the stainless panels and the steel, many rusted out within ten years. Your headline could read.

Williams: New York Central 5 car Aluminum Streamline Passenger set. Gunrunner, mentioned your consist. 2 coaches, dome, baggage and observation.

 

Many thanks for the detailed description John.  So, I was mistaken about them being "20th Century Limited" cars.  Would "Budd Stainless Steel" be a historically correct description?

Again - Thank you 

Ponz;  Well, their both.  The NYC did have a train called the 20th Century Limited but the Livery on your cars was used on trains other than the Limited as well. I would go to the NYC Historical Society and ask your question. I would trust them more than my answer.  Though your cars are models of the Budd stainless cars most train collectors refer to them as aluminum cars.  j

https://nycshs.org/

The Imperial Canyon car should  be a Pullman.  I think a few liberties were taken here.  I'd stick with "Beautiful two tone NYC passenger cars"

You might quickly reaserch the car names as they usually stuck around on regular traiñs a while.(I could only read Imperial Canyon and recalled a rename later, but don't recall it's route, didn't find it in a short search.... and other cars could be relevant to a good train/route i.d.)

short or partial center dome is what I'd call it (vs end or full dome)

Vista, Big, Grand, etc. were specific to brand, car type, or train.

They are the typical Williams five car set of Aluminum cars.  They are TT Grey NYC.  Reproductions of the postwar Lionel cars.  If the wheel sets have fast angle wheels they were produced from 1987 forward.  I think the colored window inserts came out a little later than 1987.

Thank you everyone!

Ponz

Bill DeBrooke posted:

They are the typical Williams five car set of Aluminum cars.  They are TT Grey NYC.  Reproductions of the postwar Lionel cars.  If the wheel sets have fast angle wheels they were produced from 1987 forward.  I think the colored window inserts came out a little later than 1987.

Hey Bill - would you please describe 'fast angle wheels', vs another type?  Size of the flanges??

Ponz

Ponz posted:

Thank you everyone!

Ponz

All of us that grew up with postwar Lionel wheel sets (trucks) remember how hard it was to pull a string of cars, especially the aluminum cars.  I don't care how often you cleaned the build up of crud off the wheels or oiled the axles it was tough to pull a lot of cars.  Williams used the same design on his trucks.  In 1986 he started having the trucks and frame manufactured in Korea.  They featured needle point axles, metal sides and wheels cut on a bias instead of flat like the post war wheels and earlier Williams' wheels.  They appeared on the market here in 1987.

As an aside, if you check, I think you will find the real reason behind this upgrade is the fact by this time Mikes Train House, forerunner to MTH was the largest dealer for Williams Trains and the customer complaints about quality was mounting.  Mike gained considerable influence concerning the manufacture of Williams trains thereby forcing the improved quality.