Post on the Atlas O Forum Re: GP40-2 Diesels

I would like Atlas to produce the GP40-2 because they already have some components already available to produce the phase II SP and SSW models. The 88" nose and the notched stepwells plus Q fans are already on their GP60.

The GP40-2 had many different phases and I don't know if Atlas would be willing to produce the different features that distinguishes the phases from each other and the specific details for each railroad, like the phase I DRGW with the nose gyralite, or the phase II SP and SSW with the unique nose light package,etc. In fact Atlas has never produced any of their SP units (GP35,SD35) with the nose light package unique to those models.

The GP40-2 is a very common loco that would look good on the main line or branch line as well as just switching cars around.

Travis

It still is amazing to me that Atlas has not produced a GP40-2.  IMO, it would be a far better seller than the C40-8W especially since it's much plagued released.   The MTH releases keep getting better and with PS3 there is almost no reason to buy an Atlas loco.

I completely agree Mike.  Why Atlas has gone down the road they have is a mystery...did they have some type of idea that the C40-8W would be a better seller?  A solid run of GP-40's would be a seller..I firmly believe that.  Just my 2 cents....errr make that 1 cent the economy is bad...

Chris,

Couldn't agree with you more. It's almost at a point I would eat that investment, try to sell it off to MTH, etc and move on.  It will have to slice bread, make toast or atleast be offered in some scheme that I want that MTH has not released, for me to buy any Atlas C40-8W's. 

Most definetly, at this point it's a boat anchor.

I would think that one of the biggest issues with any model manufacturer planning to offer a GP40-2 would be,,,,which version!?!

Throughout the production of the GP40-2 model, EMD made numerous carbody/hood design changes which affected their appearance. For example, the last production GP40-2 units, for the Southern Pacific, look almost like a GP50.

Lots of research will be required for any O Scale model manufacture to jump on the "GP40-2 band wagon".

The most likely importer to produce a GP40-2 in the near future is probably MTH,how many variants do you think they will make[not paint schemes]?

This might be a case where the road specific GP40-2 body parts will have to be done with 3D printing and another company will have to do the painting & printing.

Andrew

The problem will be not only "road specific" but, delivery/era specific. Many, many railroads received deliveries of GP40-2 units, over quite a number of years. They may all look different!

Why Atlas has gone down the road they have is a mystery...did they have some type of idea that the C40-8W would be a better seller? 

PRobably since at the time of initial announcement the only C40-8W was Mth's early 1993 version with undersized fuel tank and molded in details. Atlas O was NOT counting on being broadsided by:

Mfg taking TOO long to come up with the model and

MTH movimng the original to RK scale and making a new premier model with better details.

It would definetly be a challenge and plenty of research would be required.  That said another thing to consider are the changes made during their careers. Such as SP7245 seen below.  Built in 84' and by 93 you can see some of the changes made.  Not major but obvious.

1985 

1993

Certainly a common unit but also very generic. In the 1970's it seemed that most of the new locos were looking pretty similar. Good old EMD, they were reliable power for the most part, the solid mainstream of American dieselization - back then.

Wonder how nostalgic the crews would feel about the typically stinky Incinolet toilets in the nose compartment and the often drafty weatherstripping on the cab doors which they endured for long hours on the road. In winter the crews often brought masking tape to seal the door drafts. Then stick a packing hook or fusee on the deadman pedal so you can put your feet up in comfort.

not a Dash-2, apologies to the rivet-counters

I want the Atlas Zypher cars to start coming out. I got the first 2 forever ago and now the next two won't come until 3 quarter. If this falls apart I will be quite upset with Atlas as a retiree, I can't waste the money.

Dick

Atlas latest post 6 days ago appears to indicate MFG issues are resolved and production is moving forward. They took a big hit in the Sanda Kan fiasco[total commitment to one factory] and have had to set up new sources for MFG. They seem to be on a slow but steady pace at this point, it remains to be seen how soon big ticket items get produced.

That is good to hear, lets hope things move forward.

Atlas is a small company and they seem understandably cautious about new releases. What baffles me is the development and release of an engine like the Erie Built instead of the Gp-40 or 40-2. I believe the thinking was that no other manufacturer had released one? But that doesn’t matter to us. We don’t want Erie builts….or RS-1’s, or 0-4-0 steam locos or F2’s (we wanted an F7). I don’t care if a loco has already been released by Lionel and I have one or more in my collection. I am going to buy an Atlas release because I am a collector. Also, because of the quality and/or unique features Atlas might offer. If there isn;t money to develop and release new products in this economy, we understand. How about using this time to focus on improving quality of existing products. Get rid of the China drives, give us constant lighting in dummies (I am sure we could develop a list here).

Don,

Couldn't agree more with your comments.  Obscure product releases and poor quality products will drive consumers away, collectors or operators.  The China drive might have been a good thing 15 years ago but certainly doesn't hold up to today's standards.   We buy products which we like and have the features we want for the price we want to pay.

The fact is on the GP38 and GP40 series of locomotives, they are great 4 axle locomotives which could negotiate smaller radius curves, be delivered in multiple paint schemes, eras and even phases with mainly body changes.  Can't think of a better locomotives to put in new starter sets.

This is a locomotive investment which should have been made long ago by Atlas O to build the new O Scale market.  They already have a lot of the research from their work in HO and N.  Much like the SD40-2 are staples of railroading, span eras, railroads, etc... Talk about building a strong core base of products.    You certainly can make the case for other era staples around 1st Gen locos as well as modern railroading.

Instead MTH seems to have the jump on these markets.

That is so true....Very well said.

There is no doubt in my mind that the GP38 and GP40 series would be great sellers, but with each passing day and better products from MTH, Atlas is missing the boat.  Sure they could add some other phases, road specific details, etc.. But the market for a product in either class of locomotive is fast disappearing.

I'd take a GP50 too!.....................

Regards,

Swafford

The reports from the Atlas booth at the big "E"Springfield show were not encouraging for this year, you will have a much better chance for these models from MTH in the forseeable future.

OK. How do you tell a late production GP40-2 from a GP50, except for railroad name & road number?

Good Day Hot Water,

Good question, can you please share with us the difference between the GP50 and GP40-2?

Regards,

Swafford

Internally the GP50 had a 645F3B engine for 3500HP and used a new radar-type wheelslip detection system. GP40X demonstrators tested the hardware for a few years beforehand. The six GP40X demonstrators on Union Pacific had flared radiators and an unusual truck design that was not repeated to my knowledge. It would be interesting to hear whether the GP40-2's and production GP50's had any external cosmetic differences. Taller radiator intakes?

GP40X

I think the production GP50 had a larger duct from the equipment blower, left side behind cab..

My opinion is that Atlas will be making far less in O than previously when Jim Weaver was around. I wouldn't be shocked if they eventually pull out of O all together.

Externally, the most readily recognizable differences between the GP40-2 and GP50 are the larger intakes at the end of the long hood of the GP50 and the GP50's hood rear extends farther back, resulting in a rear anti-climber so there's enough space on the deck for employees to be able to walk around the end of the hood. 

The MOPAC 3515 illustrates these spotting features for us:

There are other differences but I've found these to be the easiest to spot.

Bob

Even Athearn is releasing a Genesis Quality GP50

Yes, the Genesis GP50 was announced at this weekend's West Springfield, MA show. I'll be getting the Southern high nose version for my HO roster.

Bob

As noted by Mike and Shane in the video, it's very likely Athearn will continue to evolve the Genesis line geep offerings...

Athearn's Genesis models are quite stunning. In addition to road specific detailing, details may vary even between unit numbers for the same road as sometimes occurs with the prototype. Models in the Ready-to-Roll line aren't too shabby either.

Bob  

Those are very nice....my oh my....

Agreed.  Very difficult to beat the latest offerings in HO in terms of detail and innovation.

Yeah, Athearn is doing some nice loco's in their Genesis and RTR lines. I wish they would evolve their Genesis line into O scale. I was drooling over a few of their locos at a recent show. Since I'm modeling SP, I got upclose and personal with this one.

Somerset Frisby.

Good Day,

The light package on the Rio Grande GP40-2 looks great!

Regards,

Swafford

There are so many possibilities for the GP40 series it's hard to believe why there aren't more of them?  Also, would love to see Athearn producing new products for the O Scale market.  With 2R and 3RS there are enough modelers would would buy their products.

Swafford,

Well, gosh...this is my first post since the Atlas forum disappeared into the tunnel of no return. We're all still mistified over why Atlas won't do either the GP40-2 or the SD40-2 after all these years. One wonders if Atlas products are just solely the desires of the owner and not much else. Certainly, convincing arguments were offered up and.....if such a model were offered up now, of course I'd want a Master Line run.  Just couldn't ever imagine why a model you could make for years, would be by-passed over and over again.

I wouldn't put any hopes in MTH. The "Wolf" continues to be a 3 rail O gauge manufacturer at his core, offering very few models that could be considered O scale, even with a little tweaking.....just sayin...

On the Atlas forum, some folks regularly whined about pricing, but hey, you get what you pay for. Perhaps Atlas listened just a little too much to that negativity. I note that they had no problem selling out the last run of GP60s that took forever to come in so price could not have been that great an issue for the prototype modeler. It sure beats the price of brass.

Mike Caddell

Hey, Atlas....make mine Master Line!

I always thought the Atlas O model selection a bit "off" and slow. I guess people want early f units and I am glad for them but I really wanted an F7.

The China drives ruin perfectly good cabs. Ha! I have a Red Caboose GP as an alternative and have to get to work building it.

I picked up an HO MTH SD70M-2 new for $95 on sale (a steal) since I figured I wouldn't be out much. I wasn't expecting much considering the hi-rail base of MTH and all the nasty gossip over the years (not that business practices affect model design, per se). I was flabbergasted. That MTH unit put my Athearn Genesis units to shame and those Genesis units are sharp (except for those stupidly protruding BULBS. The MTH unit was beautifully finished, ran smoothly, had awesome sound (Proto Sound 3.0), in my opinion the best I have heard (even better than my Atlas 2R Gold GP15 -- LOL! What weak sound), and the lighting was perfect.

I was so tickled I decided to spring for an MTH 2R scale wheels, fixed pilot GP35. I am curious to see how it measures up to my Atlas 2R GP35.

Bill McBride

I spoke with Shane Wilson, the general product manager of Athearn-Horizon, last week and suggested to him that how I thought their Genesis line of GP-series units would sell like hot cakes in O scale.    

This was his response,

"I understand your desire for more O scale 2 rail models.   The size allows for incredibly realistic details.   Unfortunately this segment of the market has a limited number of participants."

I suggest that anyone that would like to see Athearn enter the O scale market to email them and let them know.   Maybe they will change their mind if they see there is enough interest. 

swilson@horizonhobby.com