Postwar 2025 2-6-2 won't run forward...

Jeff: You may have a brush stuck in its holder and not contacting the armature sufficiently. Try pushing both in with a toothpick and see if it will run forward. It could also be a dirty e-unit drum circuit path or a bent e-unit finger not making good contact. Also check both armature ends to see if they are worn oblong and binding armature rotation.

Thanks D&H...doesn't seem to be any of those problems. I guess I may need to find a good Postwar repair guy ...somewhere...any suggestions out there?

jeff, check the wire connections to the  2 and 4 finger contact in the E unit, twist and pull gently on all wires, the trouble one should disconnect easily. This should be an easy fix, just a couple of different things could cause this problem. Best thing to do is follow this thread and a member will hit on the right fix.

Regards,

Joe Geiser

Hi. When you say that it 'seems to want to run' in forward, does it make any forward movement at all before stopping?  If so, and this may be totally off the wall, have a look for any screws or other foreign objects that may have become caught up in the gears or mechanism.

Another item that can cause symptoms such as you describe is that if one of the screws on the centre drivers that lock the valve gear eccentrics in position become loose, the position of the eccentric can alter and cause the drive rod and the valve rod to jam at the crosshead. This happened on my 2046 once, and it was quite alarming until I discovered the problem.

My best guess would be a rotted wire or the E unit. I can fix it for you if you can't find someone close by.The 2025 is something I have done a lot of.

Rob

Nicole...nothing in the mechanism...no screws, anything. Eccentrics work fine...everything is good there.

 

What I mean by that "it seems to to want to run in forward"...when power is applied (remember, it runs fine in reverse) the engine just hums LOUDLY and the e-unit buzzes much louder than normal. The only way I can describe it is it's like there's something wrong (my suspicions are leaning toward the e-unit) where the motor seems to be "working against itself"...like it's trying to spin in both directions at once.

 

Honestly...I've been out of the loop w/ 3-rail for a while. I'm not sure who in the area does Postwar repairs. I opened up the loco and toyed around w/ it...breaking off some wires in the process. I'm not even sure how they wire these things. So, I make take you up on your offer, Rob. Thank you.

Send me an email and I will be happy to fix it for you.

bimininick@aol.com

Rob

My 2025 is doing something similar.  The longer it runs, the slower it goes, and eventually doesn't want to run forward at all, but will still run in reverse.  I recently cleaned the brushed and commutator face and there were no problems in the motor,  but I've never really tinkered with an E-unit. Guess I'll take her apart (again) when I get home and poke at it with a stick.

Jeff,

I too have worked on 675's, 2025's, and 2035's.  They are good, solid runners.  The problems listed above don't ring my bell as to what you are describing as the real problem.  Sounds to me one of lubrication!  Have you checked under the engine to see if the drive wheels are clean in between the shafts and frame?  Also the bracket that holds the armature in place...is it dry in appearance? (located opposite end of the commutator or the right side of the locomotive).  Finally, check when the shell is off if any of the gears are stripped.  Use your fingers to turn the wheels and look at the gears to see if they all mesh together when you turn the wheels.   I just took a MPC 8600 NYC Hudson out of the box and had the SAME problem you are describing.  Forward was ultra slow and reverse was normal speed.  I lubricated and she now "flies" down the track.  Hope this helps.....

Lawrence J. Williams

TCA 75-8293

Usually if either side of the armature ends are bone dry you will get a squeal. Lubrication could be an issue. Brush springs are a problem almost no one ever looks at too. Make sure you clean out the brush tubes, as well as the brushes and that the brushes are of adequate length. If too short, it can cause the engine to run well in one direction and not the other because there no longer is enough tension against the commutator.

Rob

Jeff, can you manually move the drive wheels in both directions by running them across your palm?  If you can that would eliminate binding and as mentioned I would then look at the e unit fingers and drum, then the brushes.

Lar...the whole loco has been lubed...no effect. Wheels and axles clean. No stripped gears as far as I can see.

 

John...yes, the drivers will roll in both directions when rolled by hand.

 

I'm suspecting the e-unit is the culprit...

Can anyone point me towards a how-to of what to do and not do to clean and service a mechanical e-unit?

How about a couple of YouTube Links?

 

Lionel E-Unit Rebuild #1

 

 

Lionel E-Unit Rebuild #2

 

Hmm, I cleaned the drum and fingers, gave them a little bend to ensure good contact, test ran the chassis and it ran like a champ, put the body back on and now it doesn't want to run in either direction. There must be some wiring that's rubbing the wrong way with the body on, but I ran out of time and had to head to work.  I'll have another look when I get home tomorrow.   I did clean the body and touch up some paint chips, and repaint the pilot/steam chest assembly with my last can of Krylon 1816.  Looks great now... now if I could just get it to run right.   Also my whistle tender has the rattle but I don't see any easy way to adjust the tension on the armature shaft to keep the fan from having the lateral play that's making it rattle.

I would guess that you pinched the head lamp wire when you put the shell back on.

Rob

" Also my whistle tender has the rattle but I don't see any easy way to adjust the tension on the armature shaft to keep the fan from having the lateral play that's making it rattle."

First oil both ends of the armature shaft and see what noise you have left. Make sure the brushes and armature face are clean. Its possible, but not likely that lateral play is making the noise. Most likely a dry bushing or brush plate.

Rob

Already lubed the shaft ends, and if I push on the shaft end with my finger the rattle stops.

On the shaft where it goes through the case did you get oil into that bushing? Do you have a metal case or the plastic one? You can still have a worn out brush plate and the noise stop when you apply pressure. Which whistle model do you have? Verticle or horizontal?

Rob

It's almost all plastic (a psychedelic mix of colors, I assume leftovers at factory) and the shaft is oriented horizontally.  I'll take a look at it tomorrow.

There is generally a grease cover over the armature on those. How are you getting your finger in the arm shaft?

Rob

Honestly it's been a few months since I had it apart,  I don't clearly recall how much I had it disassembled, or how I accessed the end of the shaft.

If your motor runs fine with the body off, but will not run with the body on, then you probably have a contact or section of bare wire touching the body. This is a somewhat common problem.

The problem with the engine running in one direction only is almost certainly not a loose or broken wire. Locomotives with three position e-units use all the wires all the time. It could be bent /dirty fingers, or a bad spot on the drum (mentioned earlier). It could also be a problem with the brushes (also mentioned earlier).

 

It sounds like binding in the mechanism has already been eliminated.

 

I recently serviced a diesel that would only run in one direction. It's a rare problem, but on this engine, the commutator was misaligned.

I was getting frustrated trying to tweak the e-unit so I took it out and hard-wired it for forward only.  Same problem as before: the longer it runs, the slower it goes, until eventually it stalls.  There's no binding, the wheels roll freely, no damaged or missing gears, lubricated in all the correct spots, the brushes look good, tension on the brushes is good, cleaned the commutator face... I'm completely stumped.  It smokes like a champ, though. :/  Haven't had a chance to tear into the whistle tender yet.

Edit: it just occurred to me that I didn't check if there was any bind after it stalls...  I wouldn't think the heat caused by normal operation could effect anything enough to cause a bind, unless a previous owner greased it with jam or something that changes viscosity with temperature.

I've never done it on a 2025, but can you get the armature out without splitting the frame or removing a set of drivers? Is there any means of adjusting the armature's location other than tweaking the frame? I noticed the windings don't quite line up with the magnets longitudinally, and it's been so long since I worked on postwar stuff I couldn't remeber if that was normal.

*I meant latitudinally, not longitudinally (side to side)  but a shortcoming of my smartphone browser won't let me scroll down in the edit window to fix it.

quote:

There's no binding, the wheels roll freely, no damaged or missing gears, lubricated in all the correct spots, the brushes look good, tension on the brushes is good, cleaned the commutator face... I'm completely stumped.  It smokes like a champ, though. :/  Haven't had a chance to tear into the whistle tender yet.

 

 

Sounds like your brushes may be oil-soaked. Try replacing them.

 

They did seem greasy. Is there no way to salvage them?

No one answered this part of your question-

"I've never done it on a 2025, but can you get the armature out without splitting the frame or removing a set of drivers? Is there any means of adjusting the armature's location other than tweaking the frame? "

The answer is no, you have to pull off a drive wheel to get it out. There should be no good reason to ever do that unless the armature shorts out , or has such deep grooves(from over oiling) that it cannot be resurfaced. Generally, you can use #600 wet/dry sandpaper and dip that in mineral spirits and polish the armature segments to make the surface like new again. Always clean the inside of the brush tubes too. With the 2025 engine, when it starts to squeak or slow down, Put a VERY small drop of oil on the armature shaft where it passes through the brush plate. This engine seems very prone to fouling the brushes. At least all mine do.

Rob

quote:

Put a VERY small drop of oil on the armature shaft where it passes through the brush plate.

 

I like to use Labelle 106 grease here. I use a toothpick to coat the insides of the hole, and put a film on the armature shaft.

quote:

Always clean the inside of the brush tubes too.

 

I've run across a few engines where I just couldn't get the tubes clean enough. The brushes would get rather hot. Replacing the standard brushes with the pigtailed ones I mentioned above cured this problem.

I wonder whether the original poster is experiencing a severe case of this.

CW, I have been using the Labelle grease like you say on the armature shaft, but it just don't work on them all. I would like to try some pig tail brushes myself. I use a .22 cal brass bore brush to scrub the brush bores. If that doesn't do it, I have a rat tail file I use to slightly clean the tubes.

quote:

 I use a .22 cal brass bore brush to scrub the brush bores.

 

I am going to have to pick up one of those.

It won't disturb the brush springs. Good to have.

Rob

I picked up two different style .22 caliber bore brushes. One has bristles and the other has a coiled spring to do the cleaning. I have not had an opportunity to try one yet.

 

How are the original posters making out with their problems?

I've been distracted by non-railroading matters and haven't looked any further.  Is #226-92E the correct brush for a 2025?

Yes, that is the correct number for brushes.

Rob

Update:  before I spent any money I figured I had nothing to lose, so I took the brushes out and soaked them in the only solvent I had handy, which was 70% isopropyl alcohol for about an hour, cleaned the commutator face (again) and cleaned the brush holders as well. I've put probably 20hrs on the locomotive running around on the floor since then (I find the sound therapeutic!) with no problems.   Well once I actually fell asleep and woke to the locomotive stalled but turning the controller off then on again resulted in instant function so I'm not really sure what happened there. Power stayed on, caboose was still lit.

Also, you could just remove the e-unit and wire it to run foreward all the time.

Actually I already have, which makes the stalling even more bizarre. No e-unit to cycle.