Postwar "Barn Find" - Restoration DONE!!

jim pastorius posted:

Steamer goes shopping for engines like that and a few of us aren't far behind.

I resemble that remark......

This begs the question, what else came in the box with the turbine?

JD2035RR posted:

This begs the question, what else came in the box with the turbine?

Baloney?

Go for it; it beckoned to you for its resurrection when it started and tried to run; there is so much advice here on doing that.

The work you put into it will make it that much more enjoyable to operate when you're finished.  I have way more money invested in a Lionel 225E I purchased than it's worth.  It was a bigger basket case than I had anticipated when I purchased it, but I decided that they aren't making any more of them.  I now have an extremely nice running and looking locomotive that probably would have gone in somebody's scrap pile otherwise.

Careful with the evaporust on stuff with blueing and oxide finishes. It may lift everything off with the rust.  Good luck. Neglected stuff brought back to life is 95% of my collection!

Thanks for the additional comments - I did some cleaning yesterday on the shell for the engine and tender.

Can anyone offer suggestions as to removing the white residue from the tender shell? This is mostly on the interior but there are some spots on the exterior as well.

I'm making a list of parts it needs, nothing major. It will go to my LHS for the heavy duty mechanical stuff - wiring in particular. I wouldn't rule out repainting one day either. Lots of minor chips on the engine shell.

....Please excuse the crummy iPhone photos in a poorly lit basement......

for cleaning I use an old tooth brush, warm water and dish soap. Personally I think the paint looks too good for a repaint. I like to imagine the joy some child had putting the chips and scratches on there while running their railroad.  

Steamer posted:

for cleaning I use an old tooth brush, warm water and dish soap. Personally I think the paint looks too good for a repaint. I like to imagine the joy some child had putting the chips and scratches on there while running their railroad.  

+1... 

Mark in Oregon

I'm always glad to see turbines being rescued!

Here's my bit of Free Advice (take for what you think it's worth): from what I can see in your photos, I agree that the shell probably doesn't need a full repainting.  If it were me, I'd just put a bit of gun blue on the worn/chipped spots (as a sort of chemical undercoat), then touch up over them with black paint, either Flat Black, Semigloss Black or Gloss Black, depending upon which one matches the existing finsh most closely.  That's what's always worked best for me.

I'd also buy replacement side rods.  Yes, you can remove the rust on the existing ones and shine them up with metal polish, but they will probably still have surface pits.  And depending upon how much the locomotive was run, the (functional) side rods may be worn and in need of replacement anyway.  I'd also get new hex bolts for them.  None of these are expensive, and the looks will be improved considerably.

In any event, congratulations on your barn find -- and for deciding to bring it back to life.  I always get a special satisfaction in making a shabby old hulk run and look like new again.

What you've done so far looks excellent!

You have the jumper-controlled E-unit there, and the first gen tablet smoke generator.  The first gen tablets,  being highly toxic, are no longer made, but a bit of fiberglass wadding soaked in smoke fluid will work.   I wound up putting a modern S2 smoke generator into mine; worked just fine.   

I'd just polish up the old side rods;  the patina will add to the 'vintage veteran' look.  Don't repaint;  it's fine as is. 

As for the white stuff on the tender:  That's oxidized mold release.   Hit it with hot air from a hairdryer and wipe it off.  

Good luck!  Keep keeping us posted!   

Mitch

Congrats, SJC! Well done, so far.

Remember to lubricate the gears and oil all other moving parts. Also remember that just like the tracks need to be clean,  the drive wheels need good contact with the outer tracks to complete the electrical circuit. I use a lightly abrasive scotchbrite dremel head to spiff up the wheels. You will get better contact and fewer sparks. As for painting, I would not touch the 671. It is beautiful. I would hit the metal frame of the whistle tender with Rustoleum flat black primer/paint. That's all.

One last comment, please. Is this forum wonderful or what? Look at all the good guys  happily supporting your efforts and enthusiasm, and giving freely to you well over a century of accumulated experience, expertise and knowledge! Where else does one find this?

Pete

JD2035RR posted:

This begs the question, what else came in the box with the turbine?

A few junk pieces of track - rusty stuff. I've always been in the "throw out rusty Tubular track" camp. Not worth the time and effort saving that stuff. There is plenty of new tube track available to buy.

A 6 wheel-truck 2460 crane that is cosmetically not THAT bad but missing a lot of internal pars for the cranks, etc. Given that I already have a red #6460, I'm not feeling much of an attraction to fixing this up.

A silver #3459 coal dump car. Missing the "dump door" and with some surface rust on the frame and trucks but overall complete. Did not show any signs of life when I put it on a UCS track. The bin itself looks good. I may keep this car, not sure. Depends on if I can get another silver/aluminum door. Will have to talk to my LHS about that one. Already have a black #3459, not terribly attracted to this.

Parts to a #262E - all junk IMO.

A #2420 work caboose - missing one of the "tool boxes" and pretty beat up. Another junk piece, IMO. Plus, already got one.

A #2411 flatcar with three black pipes - not that bad of a piece. I've got it disassembled and am working on cleaning it up. I will keep and operate this car with my Postwar collection.

 Note I'm not that attracted to the cars I already have but I have a nearly mint, boxed, 681, which is on the layout now, and here I am working on this 671!!! One of, if not my all time favorite Postwar set, was the 671/681 with the three green 2400 series passenger cars. I've got the two turbines and a set of the reproduction cars Lionel put in the recent green Alco Postwar-esqe set. I haven't gotten around to "upgrading" to the original cars.

Thanks, guys for the additional comments. Sounds like a rainy weekend is upon us, so I should be able to do a bit more "scrubbing" on it! It has cleaned up rather well.

Thanks for the tips on attacking the white "mold" with the hair dryer. I will try that carefully as to not damage the shell. The model on the interior of the shell has largely been removed with some Dawn dish soap and good old fashioned scrubbing.

To be continued.....

I've never actually seen that smoke generator out of the shell and up close.  Is there a  light baffle on top?   My only smoke bulb experience was with one in a Marx that "didn't exist", and doesn't again due to rust. (side dimpled, "sausage" bulb with a red band painted around the divit area. Screw base. This socket spins by fingers, but fahnstock clips hold the bulb from spinning. The length also reached perfect to the shells visored headlight opening (I used rubber tube to pull and install it) Around the bulb there was a split, non sealed, tab&slot sheet housing, tube-like with a dense wick liner, and a looser batting center, nesting against the bulb (likely asbestos, maybe early fiberglass thougb) like a 3 hole T-sleeve ; screw base hole, bulb smoke divit hole, end/light hole. Overspill from the bulb was caught in the batting. The air was forced air traveling over the headlight and into the tube across the loose batting, past the divit, and out the stack. Sort of a thinner cheaper version of that I guess Oh it had a big light baffle pilot on the pilot, creating another chamber that filled with smoke more slowly. The baffle also had two holes over the cylinder area and smoke would drop out of those holes "forver" when it stopped.

I brought it up partially because its one of the few pieces of metal I tried to save but couldn't. The rust had saturated and stained the metal deeply. Though solid you couldn't get a shine with a few thousands cut. If it was larger metal, like for an old car; you couldn't have welded to it; corroded deeply, but  yet rusted.

Doing a little more research - it appears that I may have a complete train from the Lionel #2111WS set from 1946. Still poking around to understand exactly what I've got.

From your description, it does sound like the 2111ws. Bottom of the page, from the 1946 catalog:

According to the tandem assoc website, the silver/aluminum 3459 dump car is a harder version to find.

Not my say, but I think the whole thing is worth cleaning up and keeping together. They aren’t making anymore 2111ws sets any more 😉 even if it isn’t in mint condition, it’s still one of the earliest postwar sets still together.

Congrats on a great find. 

JD2035RR posted:

From your description, it does sound like the 2111ws. Bottom of the page, from the 1946 catalog:

According to the tandem assoc website, the silver/aluminum 3459 dump car is a harder version to find.

Not my say, but I think the whole thing is worth cleaning up and keeping together. They aren’t making anymore 2111ws sets any more 😉 even if it isn’t in mint condition, it’s still one of the earliest postwar sets still together.

Congrats on a great find. 

JD - Yep, that's exactly what I've got, the #2111WS set.

I'll post some more photos of the cars tomorrow or over the weekend - at my unpaid job tonight riding the fire engine!

Now that I realize I don't just have a random assortment of cars, I am very willing to keep this entire set together and fix it up. I have a number of other Postwar sets - 1515WS, 1467W, 1505WS, etc, not including single sale locos and cars. I have mostly pristine Postwar so this set may be a little more "played with" in terms of condition but I would like to bring this entire set back to life, not just the engine at this point.

if you feel any of that "junk" is just that...before you toss it...throw it on the for sale forum. You'd be surprised what some of the nuts here will go after. I've gotten some good parts or projects for just the coast of shipping.

HCSader73 posted:

JD2035RR posted:

This begs the question, what else came in the box with the turbine?

Baloney?

I thought "baloney" has a first name....

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

HCSader73 posted:

JD2035RR posted:

This begs the question, what else came in the box with the turbine?

Baloney?

I thought "baloney" has a first name....

Someday, Mark, if you are very unfortunate, I will tell you the "Baloney Joke."

A noble undertaking my good man! The fact that you have a complete set is all the better.
When you are done see if Steamer Dave would trade it for his Road Runner. We keep making offers but he won't bite.

Enjoy the journey and keep posting progress.

Bob

aw...who wants nice looking trains anywho.....

Dennis Holler is doing a 260(?) that looks like is came from the Titanic.....makes my stuff look factory fresh.

SJC posted:

JD - Yep, that's exactly what I've got, the #2111WS set.

Now that I realize I don't just have a random assortment of cars, I am very willing to keep this entire set together and fix it up. I have a number of other Postwar sets - 1515WS, 1467W, 1505WS, etc, not including single sale locos and cars. I have mostly pristine Postwar so this set may be a little more "played with" in terms of condition but I would like to bring this entire set back to life, not just the engine at this point.

Yay! 

Mark in Oregon

The 1946 turbine is unique and well worth all the effort you can put into it. In 47 they changed the drive and the shell as well as the smoke unit. The 46 smoke unit requires a special type of smoke pellet  that did not work very well and it was changed in 47 to a different unit that used  the SP pellet. I would consider changing the smoke unit to the later one. I have a 46 that Len restored and he replaced the smoke unit. It looks brand new. I keep looking for the 46 Berk with the same drive but all are priced too high for me.

Can anyone recommend a paint color and place to purchase that will be a near perfect match to the original paint? There are a few decent chips on the engine that I'd like to touch up and, hopefully, avoid a full repaint. As others have noted, I also agree that the shell doesn't quite need a full repaint but I'd like to touch up a few spots. 

Thanks!

I've used John Deere Blitz Black in the spray can with good results. Spray some on a Q tip and use it to cover chips. The color match is really close. 

Rustoleum Satin black, or Krylon Satin Black

I've had good luck with Tamiya flat black or satin black in small bottles and spray can on current legacy models.

For touch up probably most mentioned above will work. You want to use a very fine brush and fill the chips within the edge. Bottled paint will be easier to use. If you use a spray paint, spray it into a cup or the cap it came with and let it evaporate for a few minutes to thicken it up.

i suspect you are going to replace the rods and rod screws but I wire brush them then polish them and replate them with a Caswell Brush Plater using Tin.

https://www.caswellplating.com...n-plate-tin-kit.html

Some of the repro parts are nickel plated and stand out like a sore thumb when located next to the original tin plated parts.

Here is an example of a nickle plated eccentric rod next to a tin plated main and side rod.

Pete

The way P/W trains were constructed, most often with a bit of TLC, a good cleaning, lubrication and occasional new motor brushes, those things will outlast the pyramids.

Thanks for the recommendations regarding paint touch ups - I'll have to grab some this week to work on the shell. 

Just a brief update - got a few of the cars cleaned up and ready to go to Engine House Hobbies for electrical repair and other repairs out of my ability. Still have a few more to polish up, plan to deliver the entire set this week. 

They are a bit beaten but still in somewhat decent condition, cosmetically at least. A few parts missing, those will be replaced. 

They look nice after cleaning them up, considering the age, and where they had been for so long! I look forward to seeing more of your progress here, on this set, way to go!

Rusty

Looking good!  Looking forward to more updates as it comes together.  Thanks for sharing!

jim pastorius posted:

Steamer goes shopping for engines like that and a few of us aren't far behind.

I think some of us race each other for the prize.....

I dropped everything off with Louie at Engine House Hobbies the other day with simple instructions: "Make it run like it did in 1946".

Stay tuned, in a few weeks, to see the end result.

Great!  Keep us up.