Postwar "Barn Find" - Restoration DONE!!

I picked up the set yesterday and ran it on the layout at home last night. There are still a few more (minor) kinks to be ironed out but, remember, this is probably the first time in a decade or more this set was together and running.

Overall, it runs great. Question regarding smoke - we kept the original bulb smoke unit. I have a few jars of original smoke pellets, which I've been using. The smoke is pretty much non-existant when running. How much smoke should I expect from the pellets vs fluid? Perhaps I should invest in a jar of reproduction pellets?

See below:

Before:

After:

To my knowledge the 671 didn't have a bulb smoke unit. I may be wrong though. If it does indeed have a bulb smoke unit they don't put out much smoke at all when they're moving. Kind of just "ooze" smoke when in neutral with the voltage turned up. 

Train nut is right in there isn't much smoke, and using drafted air, it doesn't puff (but a real turbine wouldn't puff either. A steady stream of smoke would be what you saw.)

The bulb unit is correct for early turbines.

One caution on bulbs and fluids.

If you add cool liquid to a dry, hot, smoke bulb, it may shatter.

  (I found this out the hard way on a "one of a kind", so rare I've never heard of another. A Marx Commodre Vanderbilt smoke bulb (long bulb, screw base, resivoir divet on the side of the bulb. A "ram air" unit)

pretty sure the first year Turbines came with the bulb.

The early 671's had bulb smoke units which used NLA smoke pellets (highly noxious and corrosive).  The newer smoke pellets (and modern repro pellets) don't function very effectively with the bulb smoke units.  I recommend retrofitting with a modern fan-driven smoke unit from Lionel Parts;  it's effectively a drop-in replacement, and you can retain the original smoke unit should you wish to return it to factory spec.       You will need to replace the boiler front with one having a headlight bulb bracket,  or install a bulb into the original front.    

Mitch 

Wow, looks great. Definitely worthy of your time and investment to clean it up and get it running. Great looking set! Whistle sounds great, too!

Did you replace the side rods or clean up the originals? Would love to hear more details of what the engine and tender needed when you have time to post about that. Thanks for sharing. 

Thanks, guys. I'll have to buy a jar of reproduction pellets. Glad to know I shouldn't expect much when it comes to smoke out of these. It seems to do OK in neutral but not so great when running.

It is running very well overall. Like I said, I've identified a few quirks to go back to, all very minor, but considering where this was a few weeks ago, I'd say we are doing very well!

The 671 & 2020 from 1946 used the smoke bulb.  In 1947 they used the conventional type smoke unit, found on other locos issued in 1947.  Something unique to the turbines of 671/2020/681/682 is it used the same casting, and if you look inside the shell, it has the casting number 671-3.  The mold was changed for the 682, to add the boss for the Oiler linkage.  The frames went through variations also, for Magnatraction (681), no Magnatraction (671RR).  Definitely nice save, and restoration.

I love the turbines. My uncle has all the turbines from 46-55. Great job! 

Holy cow! That looks great! Congrats on the resto. Always good to see basket cases restored.

I bet you're glad you decided to keep it after all... 

Mark in Oregon

JD2035RR posted:

Wow, looks great. Definitely worthy of your time and investment to clean it up and get it running. Great looking set! Whistle sounds great, too!

Did you replace the side rods or clean up the originals? Would love to hear more details of what the engine and tender needed when you have time to post about that. Thanks for sharing. 

 

Just going off the top of my head.....

Engine:

-1 body screw, rewiring, complete servicing. "Clip" for the boiler front fabricated. I believe it has new rollers on it as well. It was pretty complete overall. Rods are original. I may repaid the wheels. I soaked everything for several days in Evapo-rust (it was pretty bad). There is still a bit of rust on them, very, very minor. They cleaned up very well.

Tender:

-Several body screws, rewire, new rollers, new armature on the whistle motor and complete servicing. The tender, as discussed earlier, was caked in white "mold" that took a great deal of time cleaning up. The hairdryer trick mentioned earlier worked great!

Dump Car:

-I found the missing door in the original box of stuff. This car will need additional tinkering. The dump mechanism is a little hit or miss. My LHS said it needed a rather expensive part (about $40) and they didn't want to order it until I had a chance to see how it worked as-is. I'll probably give the go-ahead for that repair in the future. Otherwise, just rewire, service and a few pins/screws for the dump door.

Flat car with Pipes:

-Clean/lubricate, 1 stake to replace the single missing one, can of flat black spray paint to repaint the 3 pipes. This was the car I was going to keep and throw everything else out because I thought it was in the best shape...

Crane car:

New boom, restring, cleaning, lubrication, etc. This needed pretty substantial work out of all of the cars. The crane now works fine except when lowering the hook - it seems to be slipping because I can crank the hook down and it won't move down until I pull the string. It works great going back up. This will get a few more further adjustments.

Work Caboose:

Rewire, new rollers, new light bulb (light is not working, further tinkering to come). New tool box for one side. The original toolbox is a slightly different shade of gray and also has a small chip out of it. Per my LHS suggestion, look for a junker at York to get two matching, original toolboxes

  I've never owned my own turbine, but when filling Gramps shelfs for a shot of the new GG track back in "76" a turbine was my only steam choice that day.

It's different enough I couldn't ignore it.

Looks real good....ya did a nice job!...ready for another 70 some odd years.......Pat

I tip my hat to you. I'd bet there are hundreds that ended up in trash heaps that looked better than what you started with. On behalf of the hobby, thank you for saving that one.

A turbine is always worth saving. Nice job, l looks good. I have 4 of them including the early one.

Steamer posted:

Rustoleum Satin black, or Krylon Satin Black

I've used satin black several times.  It gives a finish that is not noticeably different from locos from the 40's with well preserved paint.

TeleDoc posted:

The 671 & 2020 from 1946 used the smoke bulb.  In 1947 they used the conventional type smoke unit, found on other locos issued in 1947.  Something unique to the turbines of 671/2020/681/682 is it used the same casting, and if you look inside the shell, it has the casting number 671-3.  The mold was changed for the 682, to add the boss for the Oiler linkage.  The frames went through variations also, for Magnatraction (681), no Magnatraction (671RR).  Definitely nice save, and restoration.

The smoke lamp was a unique item, found only in the 1946 671/2020 turbine and the 726 Berkshire'  In 1947, it was replaced by the familiar heater smoke unit.  I would keep that unit so that I would have an original condition 1946 locomotive.  So what if one of your engines doesn't smoke ?

There were many common parts in the turbine and Berkshire.  The part number of the Berkshire motor in 1946 is 671M-1, and the smoke unit box is 671-61.

More problematic with keeping the old smoke unit is the headlight.  You'll have to get one of the old bulbs with the side indentation that holds the smoke pellet.  Originals are rare and expensive.  There is a reproduction now for sale on eBay for $13.25 - - look for "Smoke Bulb 14 volt for Lionel 671 Turbine & 726 Berkshire 703-14 Smoke Lamp"  Dr. Tinker shows them on his parts list for $12.00, but don't know if he actually has them..

BTW, if the flapper isn't working in a turbine, you have more prototypical smoke.  The turbine emitted a continuous stream of smoke - no cylinders to make puffs of steam and smoke.

mlaughlinnyc posted:

TeleDoc posted:

The 671 & 2020 from 1946 used the smoke bulb.  In 1947 they used the conventional type smoke unit, found on other locos issued in 1947.  Something unique to the turbines of 671/2020/681/682 is it used the same casting, and if you look inside the shell, it has the casting number 671-3.  The mold was changed for the 682, to add the boss for the Oiler linkage.  The frames went through variations also, for Magnatraction (681), no Magnatraction (671RR).  Definitely nice save, and restoration.

The smoke lamp was a unique item, found only in the 1946 671/2020 turbine and the 726 Berkshire'  In 1947, it was replaced by the familiar heater smoke unit.  I would keep that unit so that I would have an original condition 1946 locomotive.  So what if one of your engines doesn't smoke ?

There were many common parts in the turbine and Berkshire.  The part number of the Berkshire motor in 1946 is 671M-1, and the smoke unit box is 671-61.

More problematic with keeping the old smoke unit is the headlight.  You'll have to get one of the old bulbs with the side indentation that holds the smoke pellet.  Originals are rare and expensive.  There is a reproduction now for sale on eBay for $13.25 - - look for "Smoke Bulb 14 volt for Lionel 671 Turbine & 726 Berkshire 703-14 Smoke Lamp"  Dr. Tinker shows them on his parts list for $12.00, but don't know if he actually has them..

BTW, if the flapper isn't working in a turbine, you have more prototypical smoke.  The turbine emitted a continuous stream of smoke - no cylinders to make puffs of steam and smoke.

 

I checked with him and found that Dr. Tinker does have the smoke lamps.

I have read that the casting for the 671 changed from 46 to 47.

petrifiedagg posted:

I have read that the casting for the 671 changed from 46 to 47.

Yes. If you replace the boiler front, you have to enlarge the mounting holes for the pins.  

Mitch 

Both 671 and 726 castings had to change - two reasons

1. Slot in top for E-unit

2. Different smoke configuration

I just now compared the boiler fronts for my 1946 and 1947 engines.  As Mitch said, The 1947 front has larger pins.  The headlight of the 1946 boiler front hits the top of the 1947 engine.  Either will fit in the other with some modification.

I'd still say keep the old unit to have a genuine 1946 origianl.