Powering loops with old transformers

I forgot to mention that I plan on having two feeders per loop to provide power throughout the loop.

I'd be looking at the locomotive and lighted rolling stock issues as well.  A grade with a large passenger train will easily overwhelm the 75 transformer.  Remember, those old PW transformers were rated by input power, the output power of that transformer will be lucky to be 60 watts.

This is where LED lighting of the passenger cars really helps.

Consider too, for newer engines you will need/want a whistle AND bell controller.

....and, if you are running modern locos with sound boards, the old heat sensitive circuit breakers do not trip fast enough when there is a short....

Peter

Hi,

   When I do get them I plan on running the Santa Fe 24xx series passenger cars on the loop with the elevation.  I just ran a test using my 90 watt -1033 on that elevate loop with the following: 221 Rio engine, 6414 auto carrier with cars, submarine car, hopper car, and a caboose.  I had to have the control about 80 - 90% high in order for that engine to pull that grade at a decent speed, and then it flew down the other side. If I would have had the signals and crossing gates hooked up it would have drawn even more form that 90-watt transformer.   So I guess I would need to go with a KW type to atleast run the two trains.

  Thanks,

     Kevin

That's a pretty short train, and you were pretty much maxing out the 1033.  I'd seriously consider something like the KW or a ZW for what you have.

Kevin, I have ten loops; ten trains. Each loop/train gets its own ZW handle (using the two larger handles.) That's two trains per ZW. The only time I ever got a sputtering-out by one of those ZWs was when I tried to run two passenger trains on the same loop (I use TMCC locomotives,) which I never tried again.

Otherwise, the whole system has run fine since 1995.

Frank

Hi,

   Thank you all for your input, looks like I will be adding a KW to my shopping list.  Frank, that is an amazing bank for ZWs.

    Thank you again,

      Kevin

Figuring a ZW can deliver all it's power to a single handle, and the output power is probably in the 220-230 range maximum, that's quite a load for one train.  Was this on a grade?

Kevin, It soulds like you have a cool layout being planned.  I feel the guys gave you correct advice.  Do not use those old transformers.  Start with good transformers and you will have an edge if you want to expand down the road.  You will be happier for doing so.

A good choice for a loop of one or two trains is the Lionel LW.  The LW is cheaper than the KW by far, has a lighted dial that indicates power output, has 125 watts and has higher variable voltage out put than most others (for higher speed and more usable power for two train /engine operation). 

I use three of them for my three loops of track only with other 12v trans for lights, etc. and a 14v trans for my 27 switches.

Charlie

I'm not sure I see LW's for "much cheaper" than KW's, do you have examples?

When I was in the planning stages for my layout (only about 3 years ago) I gave a lot of thought to the power requirements, and finally decided to go with a Lionel ZW. I have 2 loops and use 1 brick for each. I eventually purchased 2 more 180w bricks and use those for accessory power.

Not near as elaborate as Moonson's, but pretty much the same idea.......one outside handle of the ZW for each loop. So far it has worked perfectly, and I don't think I come any where near maxing out the power demand for either loop. May cost a little more, but nice to know you shouldn't have any power issues down the road.

By the way, does anyone know if Lionel is still going to produce the ZW series now that they have the new ZW-L. It was kinda nice with the ZW where you could add the additional bricks if needed rather than be forced to ante up the big bucks right away.

REV 

Prices can be checked on ebay, by checking "completed listings" in search. 

KW go for $52 TO 119 and LWs for $40 to 60, condition and bidding dependent.  190 divided by 2 watts vs. 125 watts. I bought all my LWs for $35 or less via ebay and train shows a few years ago.

Take your pick.

Charlie

Perhaps my buys color my thinking.  I've never paid more than $40 for a KW.  I know that I'll have to probably put rollers in it, and sometimes the knobs are missing or broken, but usually less than $10 solves any issues.  I just think they're one of the best values in transformers.

If you get the right price, clearly almost any transformer will look good.

If you have a train on a grade, you may want "split operation".  One side of the ZW has higher power for going up the grade, then lower for going down.  Need two blocks with center rail isolation with fiber pins or FT isolation track, and two lockons, of FT wiring.

Charlie,

   So even if I used a KW to control two loops, I would only get about 95 watts per loop?  As I mentioned earlier I used a 90-watt 1033 and I probably had the control lever to 75 - 90 % up and the engine with that small consist was moving slowly up the elevation.

  I just want to get this all straight before I buy my transformers for my layout and not regret going too small.

   Kevin

I guess another option could be to lower the elevation from 2 1/2" at its highest point.

  Kevin

Remember, you probably won't be drawing the max for each side of the KW at the same time, at least the odds are with you with two loops running.

The real solution for varying speeds turns out to be command/control with cruise control, but I sense that's not an option here.

Yes, I want to keep it as true to the early 1960's if possible.  I plan to only use what was around at that time, so no ground foam, etc.  My outter loop is all flat and I plan on buying one of those small 25-watt trasnformers to run my 60 trolley section.

You could step up to a ZW for a bit more power for the runs.

Hi,

   What are some fair prices for a reworked KW and ZW transformers?  Not being a person that could tackle reworking or correctly testing a transformer myself, I would need to rely on someone else to handle that.  I realize that something is worth only what someone else is willing to pay for it, but I am just curious.  I have looked over the prices of the completed eBay sales, but those prices are sometimes over what an item is actually worth due to the fact that there is a much larger audience then at a local train show.

   Thanks,

    Kevin

Well, completed sales on eBay are a good indication.  If you're looking for pristine examples, they will command a higher price.  I buy the ones that need some work.  As long as the case is intact and it looks like it's complete, I can beat the rest into submission.  I've yet to come across one that has a bad core, so usually it's rollers, terminals, power cord, and knobs that may need attention.  All of those things are inexpensive, and then I know what I have.  Occasionally, they'll need a rectifier, a large silicon diode solves that problem.