PRR Silverliners and Metroliners

Hi all,

I just found this topic.  I am the owner of the company who was planning the O scale Budd Silverliner MU car kit in conjunction with the Cherry Valley club a couple of years ago.  Unfortunately, that project was dropped because of a lack of interest and the fact that the CAd company that did the work for us on the body lost the CAD file.  Since we are now doing our own CAD, it's now a future project to do it over again.

A couple of things:

I myself have been interested in the Metroliner MUs since I was a kid, and have plenty of documentation on the cars, including paint chips from the Capital-liner scheme of the 1980s on the rebuilt cars, Amtrak maintenance guides, operator's manuals, and notes I made myself.  I was fortunate to ride them in their last self-powered days in 1987. 

I just today got ahold of three of the old Clark Benson O scale extruded aluminim Amfleet car kits.  I was looking at them and thought immediately about converting one into a Metroliner MU.  (Clark Benson did make Metroliner MU kits, but try to find one!)  The CB kits were made using Williams Amfleet extrusions cut to full length and injected plastic ends, and he made his own hardwood floors and cast-metal Pioneer III trucks and underbody.  The kits look decent when built from the photos I have seen of them, but I can see making all-new tooling for trucks (power and dummy) and underbody to match the Metroliners as built.  I figured the Williams ends and pantograph would work, with a little re-milling of the CB body shell at the cab end to accomodate the cab piece and allow for its length.  I am looking at doing cars for 2-rail operation.  If it works, and if I actually find the time for this project, I will try to keep everyone posted.

Also, if there is any interest at all in a resin body kit for the (Budd) Silverliner in O scale, please let me know. 

Thanks,

Mike Bartel

IHP

I may have missed the reference, and as a three-rail non-scale guy, please excuse my intrusion, but did you consider the Elliot Welz models in your search for ends?  Would they be of any use to you in your project?  I have several sets of them and would be willing to lend them for research or copying, etc.

Thanks, Arthur, no intrusion at all.  I am looking at the Williams cars and their parts because that's what the Benson models were based on, and everything will fit.  I don't have any of the Welz models or parts for comparison, but I always liked their cab ends more, compared to the Williams models.  The Williams 'B' Ends that come with these Amfleet kits are actually Metroliner ends, and similar in detail and appearance to the Bachmann HO ends, oddly enough. 

I got two coach kits and one dinette kit, and I'm thinking of using one coach and the dinette for this project.  A 2-car MU set would result: one coach and one food service car.  I'd have the extra coach in reserve in case I ever decided to build a third car.

Another idea I had for trucks was to use the GSI trucks from the Atlas Horizon cars (the Amtrak versions).  They are nearly identical to the Metroliner trucks.  I'll make new underbody from CAD/3D printing, and build a power truck.  I can see myself building a Stemman pantograph for the coach, and I could probably use the Faively pan from a Williams or Welz unit on the food service car.

This Metroliner project is mostly just for me. I have no intention of producing O scale kits myself at this time.  I'd just like to get a couple of cars for operation now and then.  I don't do enough projects for pleasure these days.

Mike Bartel

IHP

[QUOTE]Originally posted by PRRTrainguy:
Parts arrived



Shell is scale length, non engineer end is plastic and very nice. The operator end is rough and has too many windows and doors are not correct. 

That cab end might be from the aborted Clark Benson SPV-2000 model. Thus, not ony does it have too many windows, it's not the correct profile for the Metroliner end.  The Metroliner and SPV fiberglass ends were NOT the same, they were different.  I saw a photo of the prototype for the CB model about ten years ago and it looked like an SPV, but was otherwise a little rough.  I know the SPV very well, having produced an HO resin kit version back in 1996.  You're probably better off finding an extra Williams or Welz end for your project.  That blind end is correct for the Metroliner, however, so that's a plus. 

Mike Bartel

I have been waiting for Mike Bartel to finish the ends all this time.  I sent him a pair of both ends a looooong time ago to use as a starting point; but no product.  Does anyone know where I can obtain 7 operator ends? 

frustrated metroliner.

Dining room table is covered with metroliner parts, covered with dust, waiting.

mikeg

I will let you all know that the Williams Metroliner cab ends match fine with the MTH 18" Amfleet cars.

that I did not know.  If only MTH had cab ends.

mikeg

Hi Mikeg,

Sorry for taking so long with these, I've had a lot getting in the way.  Summer will allow me to finish some custom projects including yours. I will be in touch shortly with your Metroliner ends. 

Mike Bartel

mike bartel has finished ends. 

do not have item. but do have pix.  much better than original from williams, which was not prototypical

i am sure mike would be happy to supply anyone who needs, desires, wants them.

mikeg

Thanks, Mikeg! 

IHP also has the following items available for O scalers wishing to model PRR Budd Silverliner MU cars:

Budd Silverliner Ends

Budd Silverliner Roof Details

Budd Silverliner Stepwells

The ends are intended for kitbashers and are optimised for O31 type carbodies and dimensions.  (Originally, the Williams plastic passenger car roofs were to be used in modeling these cars with scratchbuilt sides, so they are made to the width of the Williams cars.)

You can order direct from IHP's website, and we will soon have them on our eBay store as well.

IHP is preparing to dump resin casting as our primary means of model production, so the Metroliner ends will only be available for a short time this year only.   If anyone requires other O scale parts for these models, you may contact us about CAD design and 3D printing of parts for them.  We may be able to produce them as custom projects for your modeling.

Thanks!

Mike Bartel

IHP

Hi all,

Budd Silverliner MU commuter car, PRR version (smaller end windows). Guess it was inevitable that we try this! We'll officially re-enter O scale if you all like the results of this effort. 

Body shell available

And the stepwells for it, available separately

Before anyone balks at the price, it's 3D printing a BIG shell for a small market for it, and is actually done in one of the less expensive processes.  WSF is used mainly because it can print objects as large as this (21.25" body length between buffers). 

If people like this body shell, we'll upload the underbody for it, and perhaps do the Reading version as well.  Oh yes, roof details for the Budd cars are already available elsewhere on the Shapeways page as well.

Hope this will help some of you in your O scale electric commuter modeling.  If it does well, we'll do other MU types.

Thanks!

Mike Bartel IHP

What's the difference between the two different types of step wells?  Looks like they would be great for fixing the pretty sad stepwells on the Atlas Horizon cars. 

If you wanted to try using the stepwells on the Atlas cars, use the ones marked 1:48 scale.  They are scaled correctly for the car width. 

The Comet stepwells are different, however.  It might be better to just do specific replacement stepwells for them.  If someone were to give me a 'launch order', I could do CAD for them and upload it to Shapeways. 

Mike Bartel

IHP

Thanks!

Not sure there is sufficient market to make it worthwhile.  The entire underbody of those cars could use some help.  I'll check out your 1:48 steps vs the horizon cars and see where the mismatches are.

curiosity question

the trucks for silverliners are available, not available, close enough to?

does anyone know the answer?

mikeg

the trucks for silverliners are available, not available, close enough to?

does anyone know the answer?

mikeg

I would start from MTH lossenge pax car trucks.

lossenge pax

what are these?

mikeg

Think the English translation (!) is 'lozenge-shaped passenger cars', i.e. the octagonal-shaped UTDC/Bombardier bilevel commuter cars originally operated by GO Transit and now operated by several agencies.  Their trucks might work, as they are inboard-bearing types.  The IB-types from the Atlas Comet cars might also work. Other than that, if you wanted the exact trucks, they'd have to be custom-made in zinc.  Possible but expensive.

Mike Bartel

IHP

Think the English translation (!) is 'lozenge-shaped passenger cars', i.e. the octagonal-shaped UTDC/Bombardier bilevel commuter cars originally operated by GO Transit and now operated by several agencies.  Their trucks might work, as they are inboard-bearing types.  The IB-types from the Atlas Comet cars might also work. Other than that, if you wanted the exact trucks, they'd have to be custom-made in zinc.  Possible but expensive.

ihanks for translation.  i will explore these sources and see what happens.

mikeg

I was not prepared to be impressed with the Shapeways body.  I am impressed.  If this is the infancy of printed models, there may be a real future.  Not sure the price point has been met yet, but still - impressive.

As this technology matures and the price comes down, I suspect you'll see it become the norm for small independent product producers. Laser cutters have already come down below $10,000 for units large enough to produce parts up to 24" wide.

3D printing is indeed in its infancy, but is now capable of producing parts usable for everyday static scale modeling.  You should see the smaller parts we're getting from Shapeways in their most detailed process.  The quality is close to that of injection moulding in some cases.  The O scale Silverliner body is too large for the most detailed process and the finish is a little rough, but it's usable. 

As to the price, 3D printing isn't for mass production just yet.  It's for one-off parts and projects, or very short-run parts.  The cost of the process will come down and the process will get better especially for larger parts in a few years, but you're still getting what amounts to 'custom' work, and the prices will be commensurate with that.  I don't see an O scale MU body being that much cheaper in the coming years if only one or two bodies are being custom-made by this process.   So, at least for the forseeable future,  be prepared to pay a little money for the niche-stuff you want to see. 

The best part is that the parts are easier to produce since no time-consuming and imprecise hand-work is involved and CAD can help get details even and consistent that you can't get by hand.  That kind of quality is worth any price, and IHP is nothing if we're not known for a quality product.  Maybe 3D printing still needs to catch up with our quality!  

Thanks!

Mike Bartel

IHP

O Scale Budd PRR Silverliner Body Kit from IHP

A while back we posted the availability of an O scale version of the Budd Silverliner body shell.  Now, we have a complete body kit for the Silverliner available!

The 3D-printed body kit is available from our Shapeways store and consists of a body shell (PRR version), underframe (with yaw dampers and bolsters), underbody details, stepwells, and roof details.  We're working on truck frames (also to be 3D-printed) that will allow nonpowered cars to be built.  You'll need 33" wheelsets and pantographs to complete the models.  

See the Shapeways parts through the IHP website

These are full-length Silverliner models for the 2-rail O scale modelers.  We plan a Reading version of the body in the future, as well as the earlier Pioneer III (Silverliner I) cars from 1958 for the PRR.  

Thanks!

Mike Bartel

IHP

Mike

I'd love to right now but it will have to wait a while until I finish what I have on my plate right now.

mikeg