A number of years ago I had my Premier PS1 engines converted to TMCC and EOB. I have never looked back. Go for it.
TMCC is a great operating venue and ERR is next gen.
Norm
sinclair posted:Which I have proposed to several people as I don't have the EE knowledge to do so, but since none of them shared the passion I have for trains, they didn't want to take on the side project as they didn't think it would be profitable.
Well, I don't think it's no passion for trains, I can enjoy the trains fine with all the control options already available. You're right about the second part, it's a lot of work, and there is no certainty of any ROI. It's certainly easy to wish someone else did it, that's a lot less work. Refer to the last line of my signature. 
grfd59 posted:This was already done years ago. Train America Studios had the UCUB and Digital Dynamics had the Equalizer board. I have a UCUB board and it works very well. If someone would want to do this again I'm sure that both would need redesigned as individual parts would need to be changed, but with enough time and money anything can be done. Who's willing to lay out the money upfront?
Gene Anstine
Gene,
All I can divulge at this time is that part of the original TAS team is involved in this project...
I will also add that the design is "finished", and we are now just being asked how many the initial run of boards needs to be. The more boards, the lower the per-unit cost.
BANDOB posted:My lack of MTH familiarity and knowledge is significant, so I hope someone could answer this: I have one of the early B&O RDC sets, #30-2144-1, with "Protosounds." (I presume that means PS-1?) The sounds are great, especially the station stop announcements which can be triggered by the reversing button. Can TMCC with cruise be added to this unit with the sounds preserved?
Thanks for any advice.
B&OBill,
The answer is yes and no...
The freight yard & passenger station announcements are still there, but cannot be triggered.
For example, in my PA-1s, which have the sound sets from the RS-27, the freight yard sounds play at random whilst the unit is stopped. I have tried to trigger them on the remote, with no joy. I have not tried it by pressing the direction button on the transformer.
CentralFan1976 posted:grfd59 posted:This was already done years ago. Train America Studios had the UCUB and Digital Dynamics had the Equalizer board. I have a UCUB board and it works very well. If someone would want to do this again I'm sure that both would need redesigned as individual parts would need to be changed, but with enough time and money anything can be done. Who's willing to lay out the money upfront?
Gene Anstine
Gene,
All I can divulge at this time is that part of the original TAS team is involved in this project...
I will also add that the design is "finished", and we are now just being asked how many the initial run of boards needs to be. The more boards, the lower the per-unit cost.
Mario, are you a beta tester? I think before more will commit a better understanding of what the new board will do and not do will be needed. I am mostly a bystander here as I have only one Proto 1 engine (that works!) but could be persuaded if the cost and functionality is known. Ball park numbers OK.
Pete
Early on, I mentioned how well the mating could be done. Triggering the optional stuff in the PS/1 sound set is specifically one of the main features I was thinking of. It would be important to have that stuff work.
As stated before, this would be a most welcome and successful endeavor. I really do believe there would be more users of this than anyone now imagines. The fact it would be a superb upgrade to the PS1 system, retaining great sounds, the numerous PS1 engines "out there" will all find a new life. Naturally, keeping the costs and complexity down brings more operators into the arena and more motive power into the RC club.
Jesse
Interesting project, again. I run 7 or so Proto1, QS1, QS2 locomotives. And, I still have a dozen or so systems from my previous store stock, new in their original AS packaging. I really appreciate the somewhat appropriate for model and railroad sounds compared to the limited sound sets offered for the TMCC conversion options currently available.
I have, and run, some TMCC equipped locomotives as my layout is primarily structured for the TMCC system. Not into Legacy yet except for the Legacy Powermasters as they are much kinder to the Protosound 1/ QS1 & QS2 systems. I really like the super control aspects of TMCC over the older sound and control systems, but converting a large fleet to TMCC with generic sound systems is really costly and seemingly wasteful when you consider throwing away a good sound set.
The Digital Dynamics Equalizer was on my shopping list way back when but I hesitated because of some of the less than enthusiastic reviews. Then they were gone! I always hoped someone would find a way to resurrect this idea and would be able to market a good reliable, cost effective way to repurpose these sound systems.
The comment on the number of boards and volume needed to accomplish this install is relevant. I installed a lot of the older systems with the added electrocoupler option and it was quite a shoe horn fit.
Is time again with the advances in electronics packaging and production methods? How many would sell? I might try a few in my largest volume tender steam models (probably my PRR Centipedes too) but price, reliable operation, and dependability are major factors. I've been sitting on my thumbs waiting looking for guidance on where to go with my locomotive roster. How many others are doing the same?
Chuck
How about an aftermarket for lionels wireless drawbar for ps1 or ps2. I would love that if it were possible. john
The wireless drawbar is a single channel one-way digital channel. Any PS/2 or PS/3 locomotive/tender connection is far more complex.
gunrunnerjohn posted:The wireless drawbar is a single channel one-way digital channel. Any PS/2 or PS/3 locomotive/tender connection is far more complex.
I don't know if "complex" is the right word here GRJ. Doesn't get much simpler in electronics than a piece of wire. 
But yes, the end problem is that MTH's tether carries current, not just data, so a wireless, drop in, replacement is impossible. Well, it could be done but would hardly be worth the trouble as it would require a complete redesign of the boards, ex stuffing everything important (current carrying) in the engine.
On the original topic, I've gotten confused following along, is it the case that a new run of boards that allow the use of PS1 sound under TMCC control is being produced and we're trying to figure out how many such boards to produce?
Also, (assuming this is a current design about to be produced) Does this product allow access to all of the sound features available from the PS1 board or not, and if not, which features are not to be available?
JGL
CentralFan1976 posted:grfd59 posted:This was already done years ago. Train America Studios had the UCUB and Digital Dynamics had the Equalizer board. I have a UCUB board and it works very well. If someone would want to do this again I'm sure that both would need redesigned as individual parts would need to be changed, but with enough time and money anything can be done. Who's willing to lay out the money upfront?
Gene Anstine
Gene,
All I can divulge at this time is that part of the original TAS team is involved in this project...
I will also add that the design is "finished", and we are now just being asked how many the initial run of boards needs to be. The more boards, the lower the per-unit cost.
Sorry, I must have been confused also, because I thought you were asking if it could be done. I know one of the original designers, lost touch with him because life got in the way. Very good at what he does.
Good luck with the new adventure. Although I have a bunch I want to convert, I can't commit to anything now due to said life.
Gene Anstine
JohnGaltLine posted:gunrunnerjohn posted:The wireless drawbar is a single channel one-way digital channel. Any PS/2 or PS/3 locomotive/tender connection is far more complex.
I don't know if "complex" is the right word here GRJ. Doesn't get much simpler in electronics than a piece of wire.
On the original topic, I've gotten confused following along, is it the case that a new run of boards that allow the use of PS1 sound under TMCC control is being produced and we're trying to figure out how many such boards to produce?
Also, (assuming this is a current design about to be produced) Does this product allow access to all of the sound features available from the PS1 board or not, and if not, which features are not to be available?
JGL
By "complex" I mean there are a number of different signals, especially on the PS/2 10-pin connector. The tach, motor, power, lights, and smoke are all carried. Hardly lends itself to a uni-directional optical channel. 
I believe what is being discussed here is early planning, kind of a what-if such a board were produced. I don't know that anything has actually been developed, my sense is not yet.
I suspect your other questions about features is probably answered by my previous sentence.
Given a selling price comparable to that of the current ERR Railsounds Commander, I would be in for 4 systems immediately.
All my QSI designed systems are of early to late 1990s manufacture and are tethered. Building cables to replace the original four conductor ones is doable to get features forward to the locomotive. I do it now for ERR installs.
gunrunnerjohn posted:sinclair posted:Which I have proposed to several people as I don't have the EE knowledge to do so, but since none of them shared the passion I have for trains, they didn't want to take on the side project as they didn't think it would be profitable.
Well, I don't think it's no passion for trains, I can enjoy the trains fine with all the control options already available. You're right about the second part, it's a lot of work, and there is no certainty of any ROI. It's certainly easy to wish someone else did it, that's a lot less work. Refer to the last line of my signature.
You weren't the only one I talked to, just the 1st one. And I had added/changed some of my thoughts on the board after talking to you in hopes it might make the board have a better ROI, but alas it didn't help. So my comment was about the other guys I talked too later on as I know you have a passion, as your super chuffer and tach reader show. As soon as your reader is out, I'll get some to start upgrading 3 of my PS-1 steamers.
I am in for a couple boards
Thanks for all your input.
The design is finished and the guys doing this have asked me to gauge interest to determine how many the first run of boards would be. The number of boards ordered determines both up front and selling price. The more boards ordered would increase investment spending, but would lower the final cost to us, the consumer.
I'm not involved with the design, investment or sale of these boards... Merely "market research". (>;
I will say that I since I also need these boards, it would behoove me to get as much interest as possible to get the selling price as low as possible! So, the most interest I can generate, the better it will be for us all.
Mario, knowing exactly what the capabilities are would help greatly in evaluating interest. Right now you're kinda' buying a pig-in-a-poke. We have no idea how well it interfaces with the features of the PS/1 board, or what kind of cruise it has. I think a reveal of a lot more details, and a nice video of operation, would help a bunch in pushing folks that are on the fence.
And how small would this be? Could I use it in my PCC trolley? I'd be willing to test the boards in one or more of my PS-1 locomotives and then write instructions and a review.
GRJ,
The cruise would be Engineer on Board (EOB), same as the old Train America Studios design and same as is used on Atlas engines.
As soon as I have a board, a video will be on here! I wouldn't hold your breath.
Actually, current Atlas engines use ERR stuff.
OK, now we know something about it, so I presume it takes a flywheel tape and encoder, right?
On to the more important stuff, how well does it integrate the audio features of the PS/1 board? I presume that lights, couplers, and smoke would all be controlled using the R2LC.
Set a price and you find out. Realize it can go up or down on volume. But if this is $200 I imagine the level of support will drop off significantly. If it is less you might have more takers. Also is this a replica board of the PS-1 bottom board like the old DD with R2LC attached, or a whole different configuration? G
CentralFan1976 posted:As soon as I have a board, a video will be on here! I wouldn't hold your breath.
Well, I hope we don't end with that positive message. 
I gather from this conversation that this PS1 to TMCC conversion will encompass cruise. In earlier steam models, the four conductor tether is a fact. With the smoke fan/heater and loco lights taken from a locomotive mounted power supply, this was adequate.
Now with this upgrade, the "kit" would, or should, include a main board, R2(4)LC, flywheel sensor, tach tape, at least 8 conductor tether, mating connector for the locomotive, and an adequate buffered power source for the sensor?
I also now understand this PS1 adaptation is only for the two board systems. Not for the earliest three board systems installed and sold separately for dealer or owner upgrades?
I am slowly pulling more information from my sources.
The EOB will indeed have a tape/sensor, and we believe Back EMF (for notch up/down). I don't knowing about the tethers yet, as I've been asking them specifically about diesels.
More info should come tomorrow...
stay tuned...
Centralfan1976, and others...
It is my understanding from the use of the ERR Cruise system, with EMF utilization, it is not necessary to have the tape/sensor. Am I correct, or is there something about the ERR I am missing?
Jesse TCA
I'm confused why you'd have the tach and then use back-EMF as well. If you have a digital representation of your speed with sufficient resolution, just work from that.
You're correct Jesse, using back-EMF you don't need a tach sensor.
Interestingly suspicious to say the least. 
Milwrd
milwrd posted:Interestingly suspicious to say the least.
Redundant would be my term.
Yes, it had me wondering as I have installed the ERR Cruise more than once, works great when you have to also change out a can motor in the repair. Really does a lot to simplify the complete package.
Jesse TCA
I'll know more this afternoon, I'm going to talk directly to the designer.
What did the designer say?
Have about a three page email of details to look through... It's been an awful week.
I'll be glad to look through the email.
gunrunnerjohn posted:I'll be glad to look through the email.
They better file the patent first! G
Just attach a non-disclosure agreement.
Sooo........ What is the latest word on this endeavor ? The benefits it would provide, along with existing ERR products I use, we all use, goes without saying..........
Jesse TCA
It may have been just a tad more difficult than they first imagined.
John, yep, that is not hard to imagine or figure out. Your last line in signature always says it all...... Sort of makes one think of the reasons and time for TAS and Digital Dynamics no longer being in business. But, it would be nice to have this come to a reliable fruition to benefit so many in the hobby.
Jesse
I've been wandering all along with all the feelers put out there for possible immediate sales numbers and such, that the greatest difficulty in this project is the price point. The 2005 price tag on the DD Equalizer at $119.95 and the 2016 price of the ERR Cruise Commander at $119.95 sets the bar. Sound addition to ERR another $85-$90. I'm sure some serious number crunching is going on.
