Public Display Layouts

I think you've been looking at the wrong modular layouts:

Rusty

We just completed a show with three levels of trains, grades, yard and turntable, and lots of double depth modules with extensive scenery.  We even had the classic Lionel Disappearing Train Layout incorporated.  Considering that putting this layout together takes about 10x the time and effort of our club's typical weekend show layout, it's not surprising that you won't find the same complexity and variety at most shows.  The biggest problem is finding a venue that permits a multi-day (or multi-week) setup and tear down at both ends of the show schedule.  We are fortunate to have 10,000 sq. ft. of space that is available 4 weeks in advance and 2 weeks post show dates.  Even with 4 weeks available for moving gear in and setting it up, building a complex layout was a scramble.

With 30 years of running modular layouts, I find the biggest challenge is logistics.  For shows where I brought a two-level set of highly detailed modules (4 x 12 ft), my van was 100% packed and the three hour setup period was not enough to get all of the details in place.

So when you look at modular show layouts, consider that the club's participants limit the layout complexity to what they can transport and setup within limits of the venue's schedule.

John

Rusty and John, I think you're correct.  I should try and broaden my scope of travel.  They are both impressive.  

The problem with modular layouts, the fact they can be put together and broken down relatively quickly, works against them being as detailed IME as the big public display layouts, like the old citigroup station in NYC, the display at the Museum of Transit gift shop in GCT. For one, takes a lot more time to build up and break down a highly detailed display, but also the more detailed it is, the more it has, the easier is it for them to get damaged during setup or breakdown. The big public displays, modular or not,tend to have long setup times, the one in the Transit museum gift shop took about a month to get set up, citigroup station was the same way, most layouts at Greenberg shows and the like have maybe a day or two at most to setup/break down. 

Maybe the original poster should build a public display layout and show everyone how it should be done.

F&G RY posted:

Maybe the original poster should build a public display layout and show everyone how it should be done.

I'd be happy to.  You supply the money.  Read my signature.  

No, you supply the money, and build it if you dont think those of us who do things for the public cant do it well enough. Load it up, drive it somewhere at 0 dark 30, wrestle it through narrow doors, down hallways, up ramps and stairs, put it all together, then sit there for hours and watch every member of the fine upstanding "public" disregard every 'Please Dont Touch' sign and let all their kids thumb up, rub, pull and prod each and every one of these minute little details you think needs to be on a "high quality" display. Then pack it up, and take it home. And pack it in a hurry too, because the cleaning crew wants to get in there and do their thing, they'd like to go home too.

If you're not willing to do all that, take a seat in the corner, and say thank the folks inside the layout for taking the time, away from their family and other responsibilities, to share the hobby. 

Dan, I get what you are saying in your original post.  I also think the modular clubs do a nice job of opening up to the public to do their thing, and I know it takes a lot of work - and time away from home as well. 

Below is a screen shot from the Christmas tree thread - YANKSPRIDE4 created that element of suspense with the tunnel scheme in a small space with a figure 8 and a couple switches.  I really like this one for a tree layout, but even this one, you'll be doing circles more or less, but it is more interesting than my circle below the tree    I lean towards the dealer display type layouts myself.  I agree that you need some destinations for the train to go to and from, i.e., coal mine to the power plant, forest to the sawmill, etc.    

In my opinion, the best layout for getting new people interested in the hobby is a simple, under the tree, Christmas layout (a "I can do that" layout). I've spent many hours with our modular group at shows, and while people loved looking at our huge creation, I often wondered how people could relate to doing that in their homes (space, time, cost, talent, skills).

Pictures of the Lionel Showroom Layouts (from google search, mostly from www.jlmtrains.com: a lot of loops, but certainly interesting track plans and scenery.

I don't think the original poster was putting down the modular layouts like the ones depicted in the thread above.  But I can see why it was construed that way and now people are taking offense.

I think he was talking about the other types of layouts where it literally is just a small loop of maybe two tracks where without much additional effort, it could really be changed to add a ton more interest.  Even for the layouts where they set up, run, and take down all in the same day.  I saw one such layout just last week like this up for a single afternoon at a train station.  There are so many things you can do that doesn't involve lugging around a ton of buildings and scenery.  Put a simple mountain with tunnel, build a subterrain track under your existing loop to run another train or better yet, subway set, etc.

I'd also like to say that modular layout quality is widely different from train club to train club.  I have been to some like those in the pictures above that have so much going on in each module and are downright gorgeous.  But so many others are really nothing more than trains running around in a large loop with little to no scenery or structures.  I find that most of these are because their group membership is small.  Where something like the National Capital Trackers sets up grand modular layouts because they have the manpower to do it.

It is interesting how a small 5x8 dealer layout can hold more interest than so many of these bare 10x20 oval modular layout you see today.  But on the flipside, maybe a lot of people are drawn in these public venues to just seeing trains run and don't care that much about scenery, etc.

It's an interesting discussion.

Portable modular layouts are almost entirely different than any permanent public display. Obviously the original poster did not see nor heard about either of the last two layouts the National Capital Trackers displayed at York. Neither of those layouts could be confused with or considered ovals, squares, rectangles, or circles. The last layout was a 3 level layout that only took  9-12 months of planning, 6 months of building new modules and took 22 hours to assemble for about the same amount of display time.

Tracker John, posting above is being modest. He and his crew were were "given" space to do a display for the community, however they had to set up and pay utilities, insurance, and pay for the paint and improvements to the "free" space.

I get why most modular displays are basic and I'm always appreciative anytime anyone wants to share the hobby.  Public displays are a true labor of love. Please take some of that desire for better to your nearest club and join.

Steve

Boilermaker1 posted:

No, you supply the money, and build it if you dont think those of us who do things for the public cant do it well enough. Load it up, drive it somewhere at 0 dark 30, wrestle it through narrow doors, down hallways, up ramps and stairs, put it all together, then sit there for hours and watch every member of the fine upstanding "public" disregard every 'Please Dont Touch' sign and let all their kids thumb up, rub, pull and prod each and every one of these minute little details you think needs to be on a "high quality" display. Then pack it up, and take it home. And pack it in a hurry too, because the cleaning crew wants to get in there and do their thing, they'd like to go home too.

If you're not willing to do all that, take a seat in the corner, and say thank the folks inside the layout for taking the time, away from their family and other responsibilities, to share the hobby. 

I can see this discussion is going down hill quickly.   Over the years I have built "O" gauge layouts and a garden railway.  I am not criticizing anyone's workmanship.  What I am doing is stating my opinion.  And you know what they say about opinions; They're like a certain part of the body and everyone has one.  

What I was trying to point out is that train show type displays, at least all of those I have seen, are a few ovals of track with trains circling all day.  I mentioned that most modular layouts I have seen at shows cannot duplicate what a permanent layout can.  And that's understandable.  

I don't believe, in my opinion, that potential train buyers get the same feeling from some modular layouts that can be had viewing a permanent one.  

JD2035RR posted:

Dan, I get what you are saying in your original post.  I also think the modular clubs do a nice job of opening up to the public to do their thing, and I know it takes a lot of work - and time away from home as well. 

Below is a screen shot from the Christmas tree thread - YANKSPRIDE4 created that element of suspense with the tunnel scheme in a small space with a figure 8 and a couple switches.  I really like this one for a tree layout, but even this one, you'll be doing circles more or less, but it is more interesting than my circle below the tree    I lean towards the dealer display type layouts myself.  I agree that you need some destinations for the train to go to and from, i.e., coal mine to the power plant, forest to the sawmill, etc.    

 

Thank you.