Question for OGR Dealers

I'm not a dealer, but here's what my LHS does. They regularly order engines and sets from each new catalog for their store stock.  They pre-order just like we do and try to have their orders in by the manufacturer's required dates. Not a lot of stuff like some of the big stores back East, but they do have quite a bit of O gauge in stock.

They stock mostly western road names as we are in the Midwest, but they do have a few Eastern road names in stock. They order based on what they think will sell. They also know what many of their customers have on their layouts.  I mostly pre-order everything and it's mostly BNSF, all diesel, and no steam. A lot of times when I pre-order an engine they will order two to have one for the store also.

I have missed an item or two here and there and also discovered a few un-cataloged items. They have been able to get most of these items for me if I get them pre-ordered before the manufacturer ships the product. Most of my experience has been in the last 2-3 years and mostly with MTH products. They seem to have much more BNSF than Lionel, at least so far.

Lionel has had very little in BNSF since I have gotten back in the hobby a few years ago. When they have had an item or two I wanted, I was already over budget due to pre-orders with MTH stuff.  I have managed to get 1 Lionel diesel and also have another one ordered as well as a Legacy 990 system on order.

Wow - you sound like you're not a happy camper.  Of course Lionel and MTH focus on locoos and rolling stock that "have the most road name re-use" (eg., ATSF, UP, PRR) because it is popular.  They "avoid the more oddball or rare stuff" (e.g., Lake Woonatonga and Prince Williams Sound RR) because it does not have near the market demand.  Any sound business follows this principle.  

It is possible to repaint and relabel locos, and I would suggest looking into it, then every loco out there is a potential candidate for your purchase. And its a lot of fun by the way. . . !

Chipset,

I am not a dealer so I can't answer the pre-order questions.  MTH did make most of the engines that you mentioned in your post including the DD-1 electric.  I believe the C-420s in LIRR livery were also made by either MTH or Lionel.

MTH has a product locator service on their website.  I have found items at some of the dealers listed when I have called them using the service.   

You should also expand your search area either by the net or by phone.  You can often find unusual trains at dealers that are located far from the prototype railroads location.  For example, I have seen lots of PRR and NYC items at East Side Trains in Kirkland, WA (just outside of Seattle) including DD-1 electrics.  I speculate that PRR and NYC are not big sellers in Seattle.    I once found some New Haven engines that I was looking for at a dealer in Florida by calling the dealer.  I live in CA.

I suggest that you phone the OGR advertisers if you are looking for a particular item.  Most websites and printed ads are not current.   Ads are submitted months in advance of the publication date.  

Joe 

Even Athearn in HO is building to pre-order, be it from end user or hobby shop. 

True, your odds are better in HO because there are more folks in it, but that doesn't mean everything is available all of the time either.  Try to order an Athearn Big Boy, Challenger or FEF3 right now.  You'd have to find a dealer that still has them in stock if you wanted one this minute. 

There are even gaps in availability for the stalwart Athearn Ready to Roll F7's.

Model railroading (in whatever scale you may choose) is a lifelong hobby because of the many aspects of it, from a simple oval of track on plywood (or even the floor) to a fully detailed, scenic empire and everything in between, not just the acquisition of trains.

Sure, I've missed out on some things because I either missed the ordering deadline or couldn't afford it, but so what?  There's always something to occupy myself within the hobby.

Rusty

I would be happier if I could get this layout done! LOL!

Here is what has happened since 2000, when I returned to the hobby:

Originally, went with N Gauge and soon discovered that even 14 years ago my eyesight could not deal with small scales.

As a result, switched to nice big O Gauge and wanted to do a NYC layout.

I purchased an MTH NYC PA and passenger cars, MTH NYC RS3, MTH NYC Rectifier Electric, MTH NYC Box Cab Electric and passenger cars (my favorite!), a MTH LIRR DD1, and a MTH NYC Streamlined Hudson and a non-Streamlined Hudson.

All the above was stolen during my move from TX to VA...so I had to start over.

I found the 1880 series of Scientific American on the NYC 4th Ave improvement project, i.e. everything I ever needed to know about my prototype (Grand Central to Harlem River), and thank god for MTH! I pre-ordered one and then bought another a year later of their NYC 4-4-0 Americans, perfect for my prototype and a bunch of woodsided NYC passenger cars during 2005-2007.

I needed 2 more of these locomotives to do the prototype properly, but could not locate any....except for MTH 2-rail version.

 Thus, ever since n an attempt to diversify for lack of these Steamers, I was lucky to have found a Lionel S-1 electric, which could be used as they actually started using them on the NYC just before they tore the old depot down and built the new Grand Central.

All was going well, except I was still short those 2 steamer...I gave up, it was pointless, none to be found.

So, if you cant beat them join them!

Using the extra leftover space from not having these 2 extra steamers, I added a conventional line and bought the usual and plentiful "conventional" Sante Fe and PRR F3s and Alco's.

But...I soon got bored and the layout didnt look right....half the layout was old NYC and the other half the 1950s and 60s!

Thus, I was determined to stick with my original plan and base my layout on NYC and Long Island.

I have always loved Grand Central, and was lucky enough to get Lionels "baby" Grand Central, as the larger one I could not afford.

Unfortunately, there are no NYC Box Cabs or 4-4-0s for that time period of 1880's to early 1900's, or even the PRR above and beyond GG1s for a Penn Station addition....and of course no PRR DD1s or any Box Cab for PRR....so I made a decision...I added my favorite railroad since I was a kid and my favorite location as well - Long Island Railroad Morris Park.

Unfortunately, with the exception of an MTH RS3, I could not locate much even for the LIRR.

There are no C-420s to be had anywhere...no DD1s....so I am now stuck with the LIRR and its lone RS3.

That's a poor Morris Park...so I decided to try and get all those sweet K and G steamers the LIRR had at Morris Park...BAH! Nothing! Only H Consolidation for freight..no passenger service which this layout is based on.

So my only salvation are the LIRR MU's that are currently out, that will fit part of the Morris Park niche...but there is still that huge gap of missing C-420s and G and K steamers.

I do not want to cop out and just to an ad hoc layout based on the same locos I always see...that would be so easy to do and I know some folks love it....but there are so many layouts like that...I guess for a reason...

So, I guess I might just be stuck for the time being, with no light at the end of the tunnel for re-releases of those locos and Box Cabs I need.

Nothing for C-Liners either...its just the same old "Lionel Conventional RS3 poor running passenger set everyone is trying to unload.

I could try and buy a few different LIRR color schemes for the RS's, but I am not rich...I work to pay a mortgage and car payments, so I dont have the riches to buy every single variety of RS3 LIRR color scheme that comes out.....and even then, I would still have that huge motive power gap.

Seems its a modern diesel world full of NASCAR and yet another.....let me say that again...yet another version of the Polar Express!

That's exactly the way I do it at my LHS - 'Easy Pay Plan'.  It's worked well for me so far. Also keeps me from getting to many pre-orders ahead. I don't order more until I have the current orders paid up. LHS also gives me a slightly better discount for doing it this way. Every little bit helps.

Should have added to my first post, I have found that the best way to be assured you get something you want is to pre-order it before the manufacturer's order date cut off. Only drawback is: they can still cancel the product, however, pre-orders help in this area also. If they have enough pre-orders they will produce the item.

I live in the Norfolk VA area, the only train shop that has not gone out of business yet is an over priced RC plane and car store with its leftover o gauge inventory crammed into the corner of the store..its mostly track...they do not buy new motive power or car inventory.

That's very unfortunate. How far away is your nearest train store that has O gauge inventory?  I am lucky to have a LHS that is a train only store and mostly O gauge at that.  They do have all scales, but O gauge is their biggest line.  I try to keep them in business as best I can as I like having them here.  It's small, but also a great place.  If you wanted to do something like this, maybe you could work something out with one of the OGR sponsors?

No two dealers handle their ordering or stocking situation in exactly the same way.  There is no magic formula out there to help them arrive at the optimum number of any particular unit to order or sell.  They basically relay on experience; how they perceive the needs/wants of their customer base; and other factors relevant to their respective location, economy, potential customer base, etc.

These days, If you REALLY want an announced item, you pretty much need to pre-order.  If it's something you would like to have, but are willing to take just a bit of a chance on getting it, you can wait and likely still get it when it comes out.

The key is to work with one or more dealers regularly, and establish a relationship with him or them.  Once you have a good relationship set, you can be quite sure that your dealer/friend will be able to get you just about anything you might want, pre-ordered or not.  Personal relationships count, and you don't really get that through an occasional on-line order.

"I live in the Norfolk VA area, the only train shop that has not gone out of business yet is an over priced RC plane and car store with its leftover o gauge inventory crammed into the corner of the store..its mostly track...they do not buy new motive power or car inventory."

Chipset, the geography issue is very easily overcome. Many of us live long distances from our closet dealer. Dealers like Charles Ro and Nassau Hobby (Charlie) can be cultivated to know you sufficiently to take care of any special needs. Allan sure got it right, get a good dealer and stick with them. Hope this helps.

I guess my first goal is to get MTH and Lionel to announce some of these Model/Road Name combos.

Allan, do you do much business with dealers who sell Atlas O Guage?

I love what Atlas is selling, but availability seems lower than MTH and Lionel.

Whats the best route to go with Atlas?

Get yourself a 3rd Rail L1 Mikado. They ran on the LIRR and are in-stock.

Thanks Chancy,

Were you able to find a C-420 "High Hood"?

Can we get on this list? We have a long long relationship with Atlas, and would be happy to be your dealer.

The trick for the manufacturers is to reuse the tooling as much as possible. Andy told us a few years ago that MTH can't break even on new tooling for a steamer in the first run. It takes two runs to make any money. A good example are the slew of MoHawks we saw a few years ago. 

Obviously, really unique road names are also tough to sell. 

In terms of inventory, for a train shop to make money, they need to turn their inventory over about 8 times a year. Preorders that go out in a week are great for improving inventory turns. A lot of the non preordered stuff sits six months or so before it moves. Since I too am a collector, I like to order stuff that I want as well. Sometimes too much. I have piles of Alleghenies, GG1's and Shays right now. 

Right now, manufactures are not spending money on new tooling. Would I love to see new LIRR models? Sure but unless I pay for the tooling it's not going to happen. We are filling a hole with our "custom run series" from MTH and plan more items. We would LOVE LIRR Ping-Pong cars but it aint going to happen anytime soon. High hood Alco C-420 also. But stay tunned for other runs from us.

Charlie, how did those Lionel C-420 LIRR High Hoods come about?

Was that something your store initiated, or the Lionel Operators Society, Lionel?

Just curious?

Also, correct me if I am wrong, but do you see LIRR engines selling fast when you have them?

I always got the impression, they are high demand and fast sellers.

Would raising the price to negate the tooling cost solve the issue, as it seems LIRR buyers of those C-420s and C-Liners will buy at almost any price.

Can't speak for everyone... but I'll admit to calling Charlie Ro to order a couple of Lionel BTO items from the 2014 catalog after the big BTO deadline, and I had no problem placing the order.

So a little voice keeps telling me that "most" folks who want a Lionel BTO item will still be able to find it from the larger dealers who very likely ordered a "few extra".  How many extra is the big unknown.    Probably won't see the BTO items being "blown out", but you'll be able to get it as long as you don't wait too long after delivery.

David