SOLVED - Question for those with Lionmaster Challengers w/whistle steam!!

They share a common reservoir from the looks of the parts above.  Somewhat common with dual smoke featured engines.  Most likely the tube from the whistle steam half might have developed a vapor lock.  Have you tried either blowing in the whistle steam hole or shoot a short blast of canned air down it?  If the Cab light isn't flashing I suspect it's vapor locked.

Thanks Marty, I'll give it a shot when I get home!

Oh well... Blowing down the whistle hole didn't do anything...

Looks like a call into NC in the AM.

When you initially add fluid, it sits on top of the wicking and the resistor can do it's job.

The "bat" wicking Lionel uses is like a sponge.....it really absorbs fluid. 

Perhaps the fluid was so absorbed into the wicking that the resistor had nothing to vapourize.

My experience with the Lionel "bat" is to add much more fluid.  I do not think your 20 drops is anywhere near enough fluid.

I would add more fluid.

I owned the Lionmaster BB with WS and, initially, the WS pathway would clog frequently. I would use compressed air with the nozzle pointed right into the Steam opening.

Also, refilling would have to be done hours before running to allow that side of the batting to properly saturate. If I tried a refill and immediately ran the loco, it resulted in no whistle steam. 

Soo Line posted:

When you initially add fluid, it sits on top of the wicking and the resistor can do it's job.

The "bat" wicking Lionel uses is like a sponge.....it really absorbs fluid. 

Perhaps the fluid was so absorbed into the wicking that the resistor had nothing to vapourize.

My experience with the Lionel "bat" is to add much more fluid.  I do not think your 20 drops is anywhere near enough fluid.

I would add more fluid.

graz posted:

I owned the Lionmaster BB with WS and, initially, the WS pathway would clog frequently. I would use compressed air with the nozzle pointed right into the Steam opening.

Also, refilling would have to be done hours before running to allow that side of the batting to properly saturate. If I tried a refill and immediately ran the loco, it resulted in no whistle steam. 

 

Thanks for the tips!!  Couple more things to try!

With my LM Bigboy I often have to blow down both stacks and down the whistle hole - but I can always get it to work. Hope yours proves to be fine

I would caution about going far over the recommended fluid amount in this engine. I have found it doesn't take much more to cause an overfill.

I'm a conventional operator but do have a Legacy system. Disconnected it as I can't seem to get it to operate reliability and without the red LED "communication light" on the remote flashing.

I think the biggest downside to this engine is the fact that the whistle is right behind the smoke stacks and the whistle smoke tends to blend it with the stack smoke. Not to mention, conventional operation produces nearly no smoke around 11-12 volts. Disappointing, especially compared to MTH's smoke volume in similar voltage ranges in conventional.

SJC posted:

 

I think the biggest downside to this engine is the fact that the whistle is right behind the smoke stacks and the whistle smoke tends to blend it with the stack smoke.

They are definitely close, but not the issue for me with one obscuring the other. 

If you turn the sound off (Aux1, 4,4,4,4) you should be able to hear the fan motors. Running the engine the stack motor should turn on 4 times/wheel rev. You should hear the whistle steam motor every time you hit the whistle button. If not then the motor is not running. If it does then the tube is clogged.

Pete

Mornings update. Here's what I tried.

1) Compressed air down two stack holes and whistle hole. With all sounds turned off, hit the whistle slider and you could hear the fan engage simultaneously as I hit the slider. No smoke.

2) Put a small piece of tissue over the whistle hole, engaged the whistle slider, no movement.

3) Everything turned back on, engine running at roll speed, I did notice a minute amount of smoke just drifting out the whistle hole. Hit the slider, there was no additional movement.

I'll play with it a little more today, if nothing changes I'll get an RA tomorrow.

Thanks to those who commented with suggestions!!

I have a Lionmaster Challenger.  Not much I can contribute to solving the OP's problem but I often wonder how much smoke fluid to put in.  I run every few months ago on a carpet layout.  I typically add 4-5 drops per funnel when I'm taking the locomotive out of its box and then top up progressively as it runs.  Last summer I was getting much more voluminous smoke than I've been getting this winter.  I tried adding more smoke fluid but I'm worried about causing an overflow or a malfunction.  Does anyone have guidelines for how much smoke fluid produces good-looking smoke?  Is overfilling a serious problem?  How often to refill?

BC1989 posted:

I have a Lionmaster Challenger.  Not much I can contribute to solving the OP's problem but I often wonder how much smoke fluid to put in.  I run every few months ago on a carpet layout.  I typically add 4-5 drops per funnel when I'm taking the locomotive out of its box and then top up progressively as it runs.  Last summer I was getting much more voluminous smoke than I've been getting this winter.  I tried adding more smoke fluid but I'm worried about causing an overflow or a malfunction.  Does anyone have guidelines for how much smoke fluid produces good-looking smoke?  Is overfilling a serious problem?  How often to refill?

The manual for mine calls for 20 drops in each stack at start up and then an additional 10-20 drops in each stack as the smoke diminishes.

One thing that happened to my VL Challenger was the batting in the reservoir was blocking the fan hole and as a result no smoke.  I had to open it up and have a clear path for the fan to blow out smoke.  I too had a small wisp of smoke but no steam. 

laz1957 posted:

One thing that happened to my VL Challenger was the batting in the reservoir was blocking the fan hole and as a result no smoke.  I had to open it up and have a clear path for the fan to blow out smoke.  I too had a small wisp of smoke but no steam. 

Thanks Laz, with it being under warranty I'm not going to pop the shell!! Appreciate the heads up though!!

After a couple days of trying ALL of the above I called Lionel this AM for an RA.

I really hate shipping these around, fingers crossed the trips to and from NC are without incident!

I'm sure it will be fine. As mentioned, I had the LM BB and the main smoke unit's motor failed so it had to go to Lionel. They managed to resolve the issue I had where the WS would get frequently clogged and wouldn't work well unless it saturated overnight. 

When it came back from Lionel, all of that was resolved. 

The packing and positioning of the batting in these units can have a big effect on the airflow, wicking and overall performance of the smoke units. I've gotten comfortable with opening them up and repacking and adjusting as needed as they are always subject to deterioration with normal use. There's almost no way to keep the batting evenly wet to totally prevent charring to some degree.

I'm typically all in on popping the shell and taking a look, but with this one under warranty I decided otherwise just in case its something more than a little wick. I read a couple threads where others had a similar issue and were quite happy with the repair. 

I have this engine and the smoke / whistle steam effect always needs a little tweaking. For adding smoke fluid don't add to both of the stacks. They both go the same reservoir, I know the manual shows to add to both but it's wrong. I would be weary of using compressed air in those stacks, you risk damaging the fan propellers, for vapor lock I have a straw that I keep nearby and I gently blow down the stack or whistle hole and that clears it. If its really clogged up I use JT's Mega-Steam Eliminator to clear that up. I know their product doesn't claim to clear out any blockages but it does.

I have also seen the tube from the smoke unit to the whistle routed improperly, damaged and leaking, or disconnected.  I simply replace it with high temp clear tubing from an auto parts store.  Don't open the hood... you don't wanna know...  LOL

However, I've learned some mods for a functioning steam chest!  HAHA

Volphin posted:

I have also seen the tube from the smoke unit to the whistle routed improperly, damaged and leaking, or disconnected.  I simply replace it with high temp clear tubing from an auto parts store.  Don't open the hood... you don't wanna know...  LOL

However, I've learned some mods for a functioning steam chest!  HAHA

In this particular engine there is no tubing to replace it's a all in one metal part.

Fascinating!  Must be a blockage then.

I'm thinking charred wick, happens to mine more often than i'd like.

A quick follow up. The engine came back from Lionel and still smoked poorly. As I don't have a layout, it was packed away til a few weeks ago. It was #1 on my priority list to sort out as Christmas approached. Unboxed it, set it on my desk and just thought how I could be the only one with issues. Well, I'm embarrassed to say I was trying to push this monster with a CW-40. Don't ask me why, but I didn't try it with the old ZW. Once I did all the issues went away.

Something to be said about more power!!