Question O Scale and Space

It really depends on what your layout goals are, and what type of equipment you intend to run. Unless you have a full basement, or warehouse to build your layout in, O scale layouts usually involve some type of sacrifice.

A 12 foot width limits your maximum radius to 68".  Not bad, but further math will give you a maximum straight or cosmetic curve of 8'.  So, unless you are willing to be satisfied with a loop or a twice around loop, O scale may not be the answer.  Even the 4' by 10' extension is insufficient for much of a yard.  Instead of HO, you might research S scale.  At 3/16" to the foot, it is 3/4 of O scale and has much more heft than HO but no where near the variety of engines and cars.  On balance, I would suggest HO.  Try the Model Railroader track plan data base and some of their track plan books.  

Best of luck,

Ed

P.S.: I have no financial interest in Kalmbach Publishing.

Depends on how big an engine you decide to run on your layout.

027 track is slightly smaller then H.O. 15 inch curves.

031 track is just an inch or two over the minimum curve size of H.O.

Duplex engines like a steam 2-6-6-6 or a Pennsy 4-4-4-4 T-1 will take an extra large curve no matter what scale you go with.

 

The only benefit to using H.O. is having more selection and being able to put more buildings in the same size area. Track spacing is not going to be any easier using H.O. as you will need almost the same size area for a layout.

 

S scale has wider curves then most realize, American Flyer curves are around 42 inch diameter so S scale won't help you out either. There was Pike Master issued by American Flyer corporation but that track was very flimsy to work with and can break very easy.

 

Lee Fritz

I model the C&O in O gauge, 3 rail. Since you are new to building a layout I very much recommend you go with HO as there is simply more prototypical C&O "stuff" available in HO. HO has more prototypical buildings, engines, and rolling stock available and they're easier to find. For example, no one makes accurate O scale C&O lightweight passenger cars, yet Walthers has a whole line of these cars in HO.

 

Ken

Hi Walt:

 

You have a tough decision. 

 

I  have been a Model Railroader since I was 12.  I am now retired.  I started on Lionel and had an 8' x 8' railroad built in the basement.  I dabbled in HO and even had engines and cars.  I built kits and scratch models.  I am a builder.  I tried to build a few HO passenger and boxcars but couldn't get the satisfaction I got with O Scale.  My first O-Scale RR was in a room that was 9' x 11'.  I am lucky in that I like the early transition years, but could run 80' passenger cars within the small area.

 

I am now building an addition onto our garage that is 22' x 22'.  However, 1/2 will be a workshop.  My new layout will be 10' x 16', which is plenty big enough for my O-Scale needs.  It is big enough for 3 continuous loops, staging and a turntable.  Proper planning and attention to details on any smaller layout you put on paper is key.  Curve transitions are a must.

 

While there are those who build superb models in HO, O Scale is more suited for older eyes.  I like to hear the taking-up of the car slack in O, something you don't get in HO.  Also, being able to feel an O-Scale engine as it passes is impressive.  I weight all my cars to 14 Ounces, so pulling 30 or 40 cars is out.  Most of my rolling stock is wood metal or brass.  I think I have one plastic boxcar.

 

HO advantages are lower costs, more availability and lots of choices if you are not a builder.  Automatically, your layout space is 4X larger than O Scale.  This means more larger radius engines are possible.  Oh, and it is 2-Rail.

 

S Scale should be the way the world went, as it offers the best of both worlds, however, availability is tough and you would want prototypical rail.

 

O-Scale advantages are the "feel" and the "Look".  I also believe it is easier to build in.  For me, it is my preference.

 

O-Gauge is very popular, but has the 3rd Rail which some find  to be distracting.  However, Radius curves  can be tighter as long as you stay with Lionel or shorter cars.

 

Since you have no Railroading Experience, I would recommend you visit a few layouts or get involved in a Club so you can get that experience.  Once you have made your decision and generate a stable of engines, cars and equipment, it will be hard to make a change.

 

I hear that Radius is everything in O-Scale, but I have as much fun as I need with 37-42" Radii.

 

I  hope this helps.

 

Best of luck on your decision and Welcome to you as a Model Railroader.

 

Tom

I have a 12 X 16 foot room to work with. I consider it plenty large for realistic operations and modeling. It's not going to ever see large engines facility servicing Big Boys which will then depart with 100 car freights through broad sweeping curves over the prairies and through towering mountains though. I like industrial and city scenes with switching. Curves can be tighter and lots of detail can be had from these layouts. Yes I'm limited to smaller engines and short local freights. No I'll never have a big yard. That's ok. My problem is that I like huge yards, large engine facilities, mountains, broad curves, industrial switching, small engines, steam, diesel, old and new, towns, cities, quarries, narrow gauge, logging operations, traction, etc. I'd never get everything I wanted unless I had a large basement full of n-scale. Even then I wouldn't live long enough to finish it.

 

Since I like it all, I decided to focus on something that others around here didn't have. There are many HO and N scale layouts here. Incidentally I came from N scale. There are many narrow gauge layouts here. There are a few 3 rail layouts here. What there isn't much of is 2 rail O scale and even then none that are industrial and switching oriented. That's what I decided to go with. I know the other people. If I want to experience those things, I'll go enjoy their wonderful layouts.

 

It's all personal preference but that was my logic.

My layout is 12 x 20. Sometimes I wish for more room and sometimes it is more than I want. I can't run Big Boys but I model a shortline and switchers are all the power I need. I have thought many times about switching to HO scale. In fact I am in the process of trying to save my O scale layout so I will not have to switch. HO scale is great and there is a lot of things available but the "heft and ponderous feel" of the trains is not there in HO scale.

 

My 2 cents.

Jim Eudaly probably has the ultimate O scale C&O layout. 35' X 50' though. Maybe these links will give you some ideas.

 

http://www.kathymillatt.co.uk/...-jim-eudalys-layout/

 

http://mrr.trains.com/how-to/t...ohio-hinton-division

 

Ken

Here are a couple of Small O-Scale Layouts.  One Exists (12 x 15 , the other is in-progress (10 x 16).  They should be able to give you some idea's.  Are these huge operational layouts?  No, but a chance to run and build.

 

 

With a 12x20 space, you might want to consider reviewing some H.O. layouts designed around a 6x10 area as an O scale layout approximately doubles the dimensions. In 101 Track Plans, there are several layouts that could be upgraded from H.O. to O scale and provide satisfying operation. Also, I've often said that sometimes the answers are buried on our past as O scale was the predominate scale before WW2. I'm digging through my track plan images as I recall seeing a couple from old publications that would fit your space.  

Here's a visual comparison of O, HO, and N:

 

N SCALE 1ST:

 

HO NEXT:

 

O SCALE:

 

 

I was in HO for a long time, I still have my engines and rolling stock but it's packed away. and most likely never to make it back onto a track.

 

Also, there's always S-scale.  I'm amazed at how much S-scale stuff is available.

Try this for a quick read. (pdf attached)

 

You'll have to check your space to see if you can go around the room like Tom Burke's examples for an O Scale layout that won't bore you quickly.

 

Add SCARM to the list as freeware to help your planning. All scales.

 

     Since you mentioned "realistic modeling" in your post I would also tend to think

   you would be better off in HO. My layout is smaller than the 12x20 you're talking

   about but I run small 4 axle diesels and you are wanting to run big steam and

   I'm assuming that includes fairly long trains. HO would also allow you to easily

   find the equipment you want to run. Of course building an HO layout doesn't 

   mean you can't still enjoy O scale.  Since you have the means you could always

   get a brass C&O steamer and caboose for wall display.

 

         Geoff

i am late to the hobby and decided on o scale based on two physical factors

 

hard to see and osteoarthritis

 

these tend to be issues as you age

 

certainly o scale is physically much easier to work with than ho, but s might be a good alternative

 

whatever you decide, i can guarantee you will have the time of your life

 

have fun!

 

by the way, york is next week and a great place to see the o scale products

 

 

j

 

 

Moonman:

 

Does SCARM allow non-sectional track curves in their program?  Will it also do changes in elevations?

 

Thanks...   Tom

Wow! Somewhere I could run my three Alleghenies! I like it!

 I would never tell someone to go to HO. The benefits are obvious. The woes I had were huge. I just couldn't handle the fine details anymore. I couldn't even see them. I'd be happier with less when you consider the whole picture for me.

 The obvious thing seems to be three rail, in tight spaces. I couldn't recommend that either. I can't stand the toy like appearance of the couplers, wheel flanges, and pilot step gaps.

 I would recommend just running smaller equipment in O scale 2 rail, if you had too. A lot of my bigger stuff, will still go around some pretty tight curves.

 Look at it all and you'll have to decide what you'd want to work on.

I look at space limitations as a challenge as well as an obstacle. Although you eventually reach some limit or compromise, getting the most out of the space takes some imagination (and sometimes rethinking things).

 

One request I often get at the club is for layout design assistance. Most of our known associates tend to want continuous running and I happened across a couple that I had done in RR-Track that fit your 20x12 space. Depending on the room configuration, you can get decent curves, but if you opt for smaller equipment capable of negotiating 36" radius, this one leaves a lot of floor space. Adding industries could be done fairly easily with a branch to an industrial area.

 

 

This was an experiment I was doing with point-to-point representing the run between Highland and Mentone in San Bernardino County, CA. I didn't complete the terminus at Mentone, but there would have been more than just a run-around. Curves are 48" radius. The actual size is 16x12.

 

as you can see there a lot of different ways you can go with that amo'sunt of space, but that is really a classically sized h0 scale space. In o scale, that's space really does limit you to either a very simple plan running larger engines, or you have to run smaller equipment and small radius curves.

the key for you I think, (and somebody else mentioned this before, is that you want to model a prototypical railroad, and to tell the truth ho scale is just better suited for that. A lot of it depends on how good of a builder you are or how good you are at kit bashing.
But thebig factor is deciding what's really important. If you are set on O scale          and nothing but O scale then you'll just have to find a way to make it work. 
believe me there are people that can do that. If  modeling a prototypical railroad is the main thing then going to HO can probably save you a lot of headaches.

Jeff C

Allegheny Division is just to big in O scale for your room size....

However, if your were interested, an O scale subway system either MTH or Lionel

would go quite nicely.  Harry Hieke makes a number of scale building that would

fit a layout your size...They can be seen on YouTube(EverythingOscale).

Check out "STEVES 3rd Rail O Scale" on the internet.....

I have built layouts in all 3 scales mentioned. I am presently working on my O scale and struggling with it as I am fighting some problems that do not let me be excited in the hobby. I fight super hot weather that made big track problems in HO. the lack of space now in O scale. i have 11 x 32 but I like mainline operations. Plus,  O  scale accessaries  are hard to find.. I have so much Altas O scale boxed in a closet and I will posssibly end up selling away much of it.  but keep about 20% for display. It is beautiful stuff. We will be moving to a retirement community and maybe I can get one bedroom so I'll go back to N scale. A garage layout is out of the ?. If you want a big layout you go with N scale as it doesn't take a lot of space for a train to cover lots of track. I have always liked the way n scale looks running on a layout as stepping back it looks pretty real.

 

Phil

 

Phil   

Phil,

Sorry to read that you are having problems.

Have you thought of starting a RR club at the retirement community?  If the community has a clubhouse, then you could ask for some basement space and start recruiting members.

Best of luck.

Ed

By "space" do you mean the actual room your layout will be installed in is 12' X 20' or the "footprint" of a 12' x 20' layout within a larger room?

 

My train room and blues bar fills a room that's 14 X 18 feet in size.  The layout is 6 X 15 feet with an O-64 outer loop and an O-54 inner loop.  At the time I planned the layout and purchased the track, Ross was the only vendor, if I remember correctly from 2007, that offered both O-64 or O-54 curves.  

 

The curves are large enough that an MTH FP-45, which is a pretty long and hefty locomotive, looks comfortable on either the O-64 or O-54 curves.

 

If you click here, you can see my MTH FP-45 in GN Big Sky Blue paint coming round the O-64 outer loop without any overhang.  The other locomotive is an MTH U-25B which isn't a tiny locomotive, either, and looks fine on the O-54 inner loop's curves.

 

 I just noticed this post is in the 2-rail scale forum.  I hope a 3-rail interloper won't be shot on sight for posting here!  :-)

I started out in O gauge trains and did some H.O. trains for a bit.

I found in H.O. the factory curves are; 15", 18" & 22"(inches) which translates to; 30", 36" and 44" curves. So I don't really see the space savings as far as curve size goes.

However you can put two tracks(parallel) together in less spacing. Also with H.O. if you have long freight or passenger cars you will need to go to a larger curve so the car don't derail.

 

I like O gauge better then most other size trains because of growing up with Lionel trains. Some people don't like the look of the third rail but there are some prototypical railroads with three rails.

 

I have four American Flyer S scale steam engines and about 25 freight cars. The curve that American Flyer sold most of in S scale is the 42 inch curve.

 

Lee Fritz

First, ED, thanks for your thoughts as I we have targeted the problem and a little brain box surgery will take care of the problem. I look fwd to feeling balanced and walking straight again. Amazing what a spinal tap will tell one.

Most the retirement comm. out here have soem space but no basements,Sad basements aren't built in the West as a standard appointment to housing. I beleive I have had about 6 or 7  layouts of different scales and completions as we moved about. But I must say the one I completed the most was an N gauge with the boys and it turned out  the best. This was before all the nicely scaled N came to market yet enough junk to buy to make a nice layout. It was only 3X6 and had 2 separate loops so the boys could run their trains and not get in the way of the other.

I could stand back with that layout and take it all in. It being small scale i didn't have to see detail so it was like out watching afar real trains. So now, I will be happy to build another N scale layout in the future if I can't find the space for an O scale. I will scale down my collection to what I really want to keep. I can be satisfied with that more so as many people in trains model in N or HO. I have always staged a few cars andor engines on a shelf above my computer desk to admire as I work from there. When we move I will again ad the shelf if not more to stage my admired possessions. Many hang art, I will my o scale.  

 

Phil 

CO Train Fan (WALT) and Gentlemen:

 

Walt started this thread and I'm a little surprised he hasn't responded back after all of the well thought out explanations from the various expert opinions here.

 

Walt:  I hope we haven't totally discouraged you.

 

I believe Walt's question was a very good one.  I also believe it will have a very personal solution.

 

No one here has given any bad responses.  All were based on sound reasoning coupled with personal preference.

 

Thank you all...   Tom