Railking NYC Mohawk Forward/ Reverse Issue

the Bcr could be dead or defective as the engine will not run either direction if battery is dead, also could be a bad charging circuit on the board! what is the engine item number would be a big help otherwise where guessing which engine yo have pa 1 ps 2 3 volt ps2 5 volt ,makes a difference, 

have you tried a reset? in dcs or conventional?

Hello Alan, I will get the item number for this engine.

My friend says he was told it was 1999 or 2000.

I looked back thru the MTH catalogs for those years and did not find this engine.

I called him and left a message to call me with the item number.

No I did not do a factory reset on the engine.

I was going to bring the engine home and put it on my layout which is DCS controlled but thought I really need to get the engine working on his layout.

The engine ran great until the last time we shut it down.

Hello Alan, the MTH Item Number for this engine is 30-1165-1

Well it worked the first time with the BCR so it must have charged it up to get it moving.

Do the sounds continue for 6 to 7 seconds after track power is shut off?

Good evening Joe, sorry for the delay in response I was away from the computer.

Yes it does have the shutdown sounds once the power is removed from the track.

The shutdown sounds seem to be a bit shorter than they are when you operate the engine with DCS, but they do work.

Good morning Joe and Alan, heading to my local hobby shop this afternoon.

Looking thru the 2020 Volume 1 MTH catalog they list a replacement battery (green in color) Part # 50-1008.

This is the correct battery to replace the original white MTH battery ??

Whether it is the battery or some other issue the white battery needs to be replaced.

Thanks in advance !!!!

You can use a 9V alkaline temporarily for testing.  If it works, go back  to BCR, if it not working you may have lost charging circuit on board.  If it works with neither, it is possible a wire has come off or some other issue.  Does it work with DCS?  G

Good morning G, I did try a Duracell 9 Volt battery and got the same results, sounds but no forward or reverse direction.

The 9 Volt battery came out of a new package so it should have been fully charged.

I went to my local hobby shop yesterday to get a MTH replacement battery Item #  50-1008 but I was told they are on back order with MTH so I purchased another BCR from J and W Electronics.

I am going to try this new BCR and see whats happens.

 I have been thinking about what events happened up until the engine stopped moving forward and reverse. Although the engine was supposively never out of the box, I found the original battery and speaker in the tender out of their locations and there is fine dust on the tender and engine shells, so  the engine has been out of its box.

When the engine goes from neutral to either direction the green indicator light on the transformer which is a Lionel CW80 began to flash.  cycle back to neutral the green indicator light stops flashing.

To make sure we didn't have a problem with the lighted passenger cars that the engine was pulling when all of this happened we removed all the cars from the track so the only item on this loop of track is the engine and tender.

I am wondering if there is a drive rod locked up or something in the motor drive ?? 

Even though I replaced the original battery with a new BCR this may have solved the original problem of the engine not moving in either forward or reverse, maybe there is something else causing this problem.

Also before I changed the original battery we did not have the flashing indicator light on the transformer as we do now.

How long does a new BCR last if it is not receiving a charge for the engines electronics ??

If I can't find anything visually wrong with the engine I am going to bring it home and put it on my DCS layout and see what happens.

This individual is a minister so his Sundays are pretty full.  Possibly later this evening or tomorrow I can get with him and see if we can resolve this problem.

I will keep you informed on he diagnose of this engine.

As always thanks for your help !!!!

Merry Christmas to you and yours !!!!!!

Here's something to try that does not require any electronic tools.  Pull the 5-pin motor plug from the PS2 electronics board.  It will typically have only 2 of the 5 wires populated and usually yellow and white. This plug is next to the relay on the lower/larger board.  Does the CW-80 still flash overload when going from Neutral -> Forward?

Hopefully it does not and you can cycle thru N-F-N-R albeit with no motion.  You should hear the relay click when it changes direction.  And if the engine has any directional lighting (like a tender backup light) you should see that.  I'm thinking a short-circuit such as a pinched wire shorting to the metal chassis/frame developed in the motor wiring during the brief time you had a forward and reverse working.

As I see it, the battery/BCR issue is a separate issue.  For example, one "narrative" is you initially had a bad battery.  Hence you could never get the engine out of neutral (you need a good battery/BCR to exit the neutral state).  

With engine shell off look at motor.  Are the windings bright copper or dark black.  Manually spin flywheel does the motor turn or lock up.  Will have to turn about 20 plus rev to get full turn of the drive wheels.  Look at eccentric rods are they loose or out of clocking.  If so they will bind.  Tire off and jammed?

Also can have a cracked solder joint at back of engine pcb on the white and yel motor leads.  Can have broken wire inside tether (if board is in tender).  Can have 5 pin connector loose or out of board.  Can have lead off motor.  G

Good afternoon  Alan, G and Stan, Happy New Year !!!

I hope all of you  are having a great Christmas Season !!

I have not yet been able to get back to the MTH Mohawk engine due to my schedule and the owners schedule.

As it stands at the moment we are going to get together tomorrow morning Saturday December 28 2019 and take a look at the engine.

I will post what we find wrong possibly tomorrow afternoon.

I appreciate your expertise with this issue. I am sure it will be something simple.

Talk to you soon.

Good afternoon G, Stan and Alan, this morning I went back to to work on the MTH Railking Mohawk Item # 30-1165-1

Started the engine up with the same Lionel Transformer CW80.

The engine will start up with the lights, smoke and all the sounds.

When the transformer handle is cycled you here a click in the engine but the engine does not move, the headlight goes out and you see the green indicator light flash and you here a sound from the transformer like it's under a load.

Cycle the transformer handle again the headlight comes back on and the indicator light stops flashing and the sound from the transformer is gone.

Removed the engine from the track and removed all the connecting rods except for the main rods. If the engine moves after removing the connecting rods I know the problem is the connecting rods either bent or out of time. Visually looking at the linkages everything appeared to be correct.

Put the engine back on the track and made the tether and drawbar connections with the tender. Powered up the engine and cycle the transformer and the engine moved slightly then stopped and the transformer indicator light began to flash.

Removed the engine from the track and removed the engine shell. Visually everything looks good. Put the engine back on the track and made the connections with the tender. Cycled the transformer and powered up the engine and the motor/ flywheel moved slightly and then locked up.

I turned the flywheel by hand and the engine took off and ran. Stopped the engine and backed the engine up. Ran the engine changing directions and the engine worked perfectly.

Removed the engine and installed the side rod linkages on the fireman side of the engine.

Put the engine back on the track and the engine started up and moved in both directions with no problems. Removed the engine and installed the side rod linkages on the engineer side of the engine.

Put the engine back on the track and the engine ran forward and backwards with no problems.

Decided to hook the passenger cars to the tender. Tucked any loose wiring in on the tender so they would not get caught on any items along the track.

Made several trips around the loop of track with the passenger cars starting and stopping and changing directions. Had only one time the engine hesitated but then began to move on its own.

Stopped the engine and reinstalled the tender shell. Again put the tender back on the track with the engine ( no passenger cars connected to the tender) and ran the engine starting and stopping along with changing directions.

Again only one time going in reverse did the engine hesitate but began moving on it's own.  As mentioned earlier when this hesitation occurs you can hear the transformer make a different tone as if the transformer had a load on it.

Reinstalled the engine shell and again ran the engine with the passenger cars hooked to the tender around the loop for at least 1/2 hour non stop.

Stopped the engine and went into reverse and the engine would not move. Cycled the transformer for the engine to go forward and the engine moved forward instantly. Stopped the engine and went back into reverse and the engine backed up and ran backwards around the loop 3 times with no problems. Again changed directions and the engine hesitated but again moved and ran in the forward direction.

With the engine shell removed the only item that is hot is the smoke unit, got the mark to prove that. The motor is warm but nothing to get excited about. No electrical smells from the motor either.

With the smoke unit turned off there is no unusual nosies coming from the engine when it is running slow or at a medium safe speed, so I don't think its a driveline problem.

I forgot my Excelle lubricating oils so I did not try to put a few drops of oil on the motor end shafts. Not sure if this is even possible.

When I left the engine was still running and doing a very good job of filling the gentlemen's train room with a nice layer of smoke up against the ceiling from the engines exhaust !!!!!

Any thoughts ?

Thanks in advance !!!

That's amazingly thorough documentation of your troubleshooting!   I don't know the answer but I do have some thoughts.

1. It seems once the engine moves in either direction, it will run OK.  It's only when you stop and change direction that it may lock up.

2. When locked up, you might be able to unlock it by changing direction.  As I read it, the motor will momentarily jerk when transitioning from neutral to fwd (or neutral to rev).  It's as if wiggling/jiggling the transmission breaks the lock.

3. The PS2 electronics and wiring is OK.

My guess is something amiss in the gearbox.  Perhaps worm gear not properly meshing when changing direction and locking (until it can be "wiggled" free).  Or a chipped piece off a gear tooth residing in the glob of grease "goo" that occasionally drops into place when changing direction.  I recall fussing inside a gearbox for a similar problem years ago but not sure how accessible it is for your particular engine.

Something locked motor up.  Turning flywheel by had to see if you hit a friction spot.  If repeatable you need to find the cause.  For steam it is gearbox or linkage usually.  When it locks up your drawing high current and can burnout motor windings if left in that condition. That caused other symptoms.  If good run in and lubrication has solved this not sure what it was.  G