Rant about new Lionel UP Ca-4 Caboose

Try this...

There is a "catalog" link which is a few clicks in. You have to start with

http://www.lionel.com/

and then position your mouse or whatever over "Products", but don't click. Just reposition your pointer over the word "catalogs" at the bottom of the choices that come up and then click. That brings up all the catalogs from 2010 to 2015 including the latest one that you can click on.

Is the caboose coupler too low - or the reefer coupler too high? Williams, for example, made many a freight car with too-high couplers for years; of course, they were cheapies and I only bought 2 before I realized the issue. Didn't like the cars much anyway.

The coupler issue is odd.

Too bad all these catalogs links don't work anymore:

http://legacy.lionel.com/products/catalogs/

Looks like 2000 thru 2002 still work but not any between 2003 and 2009

Oh no! dang it I order one to go with my VL Big Boy and Reefers, those were so good so I had high expectations for this caboose too.

Well I haven't got mine from Legacy Station Yet. Not even a phone call yet? Well I guess I will get it 6 weeks late like the ATSF map slogan cars I ordered from them. But if it is as bad as what you guys noted maybe I don't want it at all, because it will just be going back.

Kind of makes me think why excellence has gone out of manufacturing in the US.

Hot water ....Thanks for the pickup. I did edit my post accordingly.

When I hold my mouse over "Products," a grey rectangular box appears underneath with three columns of four choices each side by side. "Catalogs" does not appear on the list.

OK, disregard. Found it. The "catalog" box is actually way down at the bottom of the page, below the columns of choices under "Products" - it was hidden under some index material at the bottom of my screen.

No big deal? LEDs are a big deal. After the hype that Mike Reagan gave LEDs in his past appearance and recently on the Notch 6 Catalog review for 2015C2 this is a big time let down from a company that heavily endorses LEDs. Amps.... its all about Amps these days. My ZWL has no problem with producing power but I would suspect not everyone is playing in my pond.

I just received 2 of the CA-4 cabooses that I ordered. I got the UP 81840 & the 81968 Pacific Fright Express. Each were packaged a little different, the PFE each coupler was wrapped and between each roller pick and coupler tab is a small piece of foam as my photos will show. The UP had none of that, but 1 truck had a small piece of foamy material between the caboose under frame and the truck.

The wheels & axles turn on each caboose. But I did find on both that the wheels closest to the couplers spin freely and the wheels closest to the center turn freely but do not spin.

The smokestack covers move enough on mine to allow for a straight short into the smoke unit. I did not try to take out the smokestacks.

I have no layout so I have not tried to couple them to any cars but the couplings on mine appear that they may sit too high then other cars.

Mine is the caboose from the 2014 Signature catalog, on the same page as the BB and VL reefers.  It is not the commemorative caboose from the later catalog.

Okay, mine did not have an insert saying that the smoke stack instructions were wrong, I just double checked.  The top did rotate out of the way, only after the wires were removed, and that's how I added fluid.  It does smoke rather nicely.  As for the couplers, the reefers are not high as they match most everything else I own.  And there is no bending them back as I can't see anything bent, they come right off of the trucks that way.  For now I have it tied the the reefer.  For the lights, I know what a LED and an incandescent bulb look like.  The PCBA silk screen says LED where the light is attached, but unless Lionel is spending extra to get LEDs that look like they have filaments in them, they are not LEDs.  There is a switch on the bottom to turn them off.  As for the wheels, it's not just break shoes, but also pickup roller wires rubbing on the axles.  At least one axle doesn't seem to center too, it rather rub against the side frame, almost like the bushings are wrong.

As for taking it back to the dealer, I live in AZ and the dealer is in NY.  There isn't anywhere in state I can buy this stuff from, so I might as well deal with Lionel directly.  That's also why I can't wait for stuff to hit the market to look at first in person, if I want it I have to preorder it.  Speaking of which, I do plan to take some more photos and videos of the issues and email to Lionel about it and see what they say.

To Hot Water, I do like the side marker lamps and do plan on adding them to all my cabooses at some point because I like the look, not because it is prototypical.  Where do you get them from?

To Laidoffsick, after spending $80 I should not have to expect to do a bunch of work on my new item before I can play with it.  If it only cost me $25, then I'd be okay with doing work.  When you buy a new car you don't expect to have to air up the tires before taking off of the lot, do you?

EDIT:  To paulp, my caboose was packaged like your PFE caboose, which really impressed me.  Check to see if the center roller pickup wires are rubbing on your inner wheels.

Yes, reminds me of the excuse for gluing the pilot wheels which fell on the floor off of my Berkshire. "Nobody ever  takes them off, so just glue them in".

A bunch of work Sinclair? What exactly do you consider a bunch of work? Simple solution, send it back or to Lionel and risk shipping damage that you can't fix. You're willing to fix it if it cost $25 but not $80? No, we should NOT have to do anything to them...BUT its pretty common these days. Spend a couple minutes to fix it, and run it, especially if you're going to open it up to add markers anyway. LED markers are available from Tomar Industries.

Comparing an automobile to a toy train is apples and oranges.

There is such a thing as a Lionel Wabash CA-4 caboose. I knew it was imaginary when I bought it. I knew NS didn't paint cabooses to match their heritage units.

I have not recieved my order yet, but I'm not looking forward to this endeavor after reading this thread, I agree with Sinclair. I'm not going to start bending couplers, rewire for LEDs, or anything else beside reading a manual and operating it accordingly. Mine will be going back if anything is wrong. This hobby is stress relief for me and I really don't need this garbage from a manufacturer. I waited this long for them to deliver a few more weeks will not hurt for them to fix it properly.

I received the silver UP MOW Ca-4 caboose and coupler height is fine.

I to have the same trouble with mine i find this to be awful we pay enough money for lionel and then the quality is second rate.     I already emailed lionel on this they can replace mine.    Lionel used to mean quality now i have alot of concernes

Mine arrived last Thursday.  I haven't unpacked it, but I suspect if it's got some 'issues' I'll correct them and run it.

I like the MOW caboose above, almost ordered one.  .

However, I ordered the "Comerative BB" caboose.  There's something about the big American "Flag" I couldn't pass up...  Look forward to it arriving later this year.

quote:

I notice right away that the light are dim and yellow.  Being LED, I was expecting nice bright lights like the cab of my BB.  I look inside and it's standard incandescent bulbs!!  What is up with that, the catalog said it was a new feature being LED lights!!

For what it's worth, electric lighting on cabs was by incandescent bulbs. The only time that the entire cab might be lit was when the crew first boarded the cab and was storing their grips, checking for proper supplies and when the car peck came on board doing his brake test. After that, the only light that would be on was the one over the conductor's desk as he was doing his paperwork. With the inside of the cab lit up like the "Queen Mary", the crew wouldn't be able to see a thing outside!

Sooooo, normal operation at night was "Lights OUT!"

May be true, but I'm not on the inside of the caboose, I'm on the outside, so I want nice bright lights coming from it.  I wish the cab lights on the locomotives stayed on, or had an option to always be on too.  Another thing I'm not happy about, at night the whole caboose glows.  The plastic is so thin the light shines through it.  Not any of my MTH cabooses do that.  Not even my super cheap Lionel RTR set caboose does it that bad.  I guess I had set my expectations too high.

So, I'll enter the fray...

After reading the original post, I checked our store display CA-4 caboose, sitting behind our VL Big Boy.  Well, yeah, the coupler's a tad low, but nowhere as misaligned as in the OP's photo with the reefer.   Maybe the reefer has a coupler problem, too??

But what we have determined on the 'boose is that the spring tension on the center rail pickup roller is horrendously stiff!!.....and this exacerbates the problem by causing the truck to tip, placing the coupler at either end downward.  And when you have the extra long bar length for the coupler on a caboose like this, any downward tip of the truck is magnified.  In fact, I believe the roller is actually lifting the inside (roller end) wheel axle off the rails due to its stiff spring tension!

Even so, holding the truck mounting to the body securely, the sheet metal arm that is part of the extended coupler reach is loose in its fit to the truck frame....I'd say about 3/32" to 1/8" vertical 'slop' at the end of the knuckle.

Ergo, we assess two problems with the truck design:  Roller pickup spring way too stiff, and the extended coupler arm too loosely attached to the truck.   But, that's just OHO.

As for the LED vs. incandescent lighting, and other catalog/website description anomalies...c'est la vie.  The ubiquitous caveat: "Items depicted in this catalog are subject to change in price, color, size, design, and availability."...is on the catalog(s) in question...I just checked.   I'm sure that, as we speak, flagellation and water-boarding...and a measure of apologetic regret...of appropriate parties over this latest set of problems is quietly taking place. 

Dang, I'll bet Lionel wishes they had a remote control device for their manufacturing/quality control efforts 12,500 miles away that's as effective and exciting as their Lion Chief Plus remote control of choo-choo trains.

Problems, problems, problems...

you could paint the inside of caboose so light stops glowing when room is darkened.

as to locomotive light rig one up from the roller pickup it will be on all the time.

I can recall an era when rolling stock was made from bakelite I never saw one of those glow! unfortunately they cracked and or broke up if dropped onto a hard floor.

seems like some years ago a post showing how some colors allowed more glowing from interior lights than others.

as to quality control maybe this manufacturer needs to take a page from another ones constantly being there over seeing the items being produced, just saying is all.

sorry to hear all the issues but am sure they will be rectified if one contacts lionel.

makes me wonder what quality issues existed during pre and post war years?

NVisich,

That is a really cool caboose!  The red grab rails and walkways really pop!  I love MOW equipment.  I wonder if the smoke jack would have been painted silver or if it would have been flat black.  Anyone know if smoke stacks were painted the same color as the body?

The folks at Lionel must have purchased the Union Pacific Historical Societies book, "Cabooses of the Union Pacific Railroad" by Don Strack and James L. Ehernberger. The caboose #903224 (a CA-4 class built in 1944) is pictured in color on page 215, in June of 1983. The smoke jack is indeed painted aluminum, and the railings/ladders are also painted red. According to the book, this may have very well been the ONLY Maintenance of Way caboose decorated this way, as most all the other aluminum painted M of W cabooses did NOT have the red railings/ladders.

Well, I have the green MOW version and it is a beauty. However, it does come uncoupled frequently for no apparent reason. So far this seems to happen when going over Fastrak switches.

The coupler appears to be of proper height so it must be something else causing this. I suppose I can tape the couplers shut if I have to. I dunno; I didn't have this problem with prior CA-4 releases.

So I got mine a while back, no manufacturing quality issues but I agree that their are some design issues. The glowing caboose from the thin plastic is really hard not to be annoying. Its like a glowing reminder circling the track always reminding you that you paid too much to have this BS happen. The non LED is super obvious. After Mike went on about LEDs on the Notch 6 podcast. I hope Mike gets asked about this on the next catalog episode when LEDs are raved about. Lionel needs to be reminded of this failure. What a let down from Lionel. Its sad to pull this loser of a caboose behind the show stopping VL Big Boy. I wonder who approved the production prototype for this, did he find nothing wrong or were these issues brought to management and decide not to fix them? Its got to be the latter in my opinion. These issues are just too obvious right. In order to end on a positive note, I do love the scale detail.

thanks for the info Hot Water

This really is a nice looking caboose and the colors just look “pretty”.

A good many of these have made their way to the March Meet in Chicago, some 2 railed, some not. The 2 railers have really adopted looking for Lionel, (and Atlas, MTH) especially for rolling freight stock. When the show was in Arlington Heights, IL there were few Orange boxes. Over the past few years, really the 8 years or so, there has been an explosion of Orange and Blue boxes.

The early version of the UP solid yellow CA-4 and the Brown CA-3 have been very easy to find. I think you will see a good number of this new (MoW) scheme next March as well.

Sorry to hear about the coupler problems, mine from the first run do not exhibit any of the deficiencies listed on this thread.

Charlie

As may seem obvious, lighter colored painted plastics (yellow, for example) can allow more light glow to escape than darker colors. What I have done with certain cabooses (and engines) in the past to cure this is simply to take off the body shell and paint over the inside surface (at least the areas with the glow-through) with a black paint marker. It's pretty quick and easy.

Sometimes interior lights are a bit too bright as well, and brushing over a bit of the bulb with high-temperature black paint (spray cans are available at any hardware store) provides a quick way to reduce light output. 

I think you are missing the point. I didn't buy a kit caboose, All of the tinkering and assembly should be complete and ready to run when I get it. Sure I could do this or do that, but I could also buy a bunch of sheet stock and assemble a scratch caboose myself. OK will maybe I don't have the skill set to do that but you've gotta see the point. Lionel screwed this one up. I really hope they learn from this and not screw the next round of customers. I have little hope of them rectifying the current mess so I can chalk this one up as a loss, provide warnings to potential buyers, and complain about it. Note that in general I post about the great things Lionel did with this or that, I deserve the right to complain went warranted.

I wrote Lionel service about the uncoupling problem and what they did was send me a return authorization number, so I guess that's how they want to deal with the problem. Costs me shipping one way, though.

To clarify for you, I didn't miss your point. But your personal feelings about Lionel's production of the caboose wasn't part of my discussion. My comments weren't directed at you or about you or your particular situation at all. They were just general comments about lighting bleed-through solutions and some simple things I've done about it in the past. 

Incidentally, you can fix your caboose and complain at the same time. They're not mutually exclusive.

Cool, huh? 

Functional and non-prototypical appearance defects aside, I find it interesting that anyone interested in scale fidelity would be concerned about light bleed-through on a scale caboose.  In real life, a caboose doesn't look like Times Square at night, but most toy trains do. 

Why not just remove the bulb, or turn it off?  No bleed-through, closer to scale appearance.  I'm not kidding about this.  Well, mostly.  I agree they should start using LEDs for safety purposes and appearance.  But for many decades a caboose looked like a Christmas tree,  not a caboose, with the bulbs that were available.  Bleed-through or not, caboose lighting is absurd if it's anything but a toy in your mind.  Works for me, but I can understand others feeling differently.

I have lots of the Lionel CA-4 cabooses/cabeese/cabeeses and I love every one. In fact I just ordered 2 more and Ive got another one coming. I dont usually use the smoke in them and I just turn it off since I have a tendency to forget to fill it. But they all look OK, lights are a little bright but really they need some little guys inside doing stuff