Rare, Vintage Trains

That's the problem with Ebay, Pawn Stars and American Pickers. Everybody now thinks their items are "rare" and worth a mint. And when you tell them they aren't, they just think you're trying to rip them off.

This bugs me too.  When I see "rare" on a listing that I know is not rare, my reaction is to distrust the seller.  I once saw "rare" listed on O22 switches - there must be hundreds of thousands of them.

Bill

Nah, that whole phenomenon came about long before ebay, pawn stars, and american pickers...

Frankly they can bandy about all the buzzwords they want. What matters is price. If they claim rare and price it as rare, and it isn't, I walk away. Trying to educate them is akin to mud wrestling a pig.

Items were "rare" before the ebay, the tech era and reality TV such as storage wars, when the only way you found items were at the local flea market, antique, second hand shop or paper print listing. I have loads of stuff that prior to the tech era were valued in Kovels and other antique value books at 10 times more than the value now because that hard to find or "Rare" item is listed 10 times on ebay or multiple sites. Now "rare" is only really rare to those who now the specifics of certain items.

IMHO, anybody who blindly trusts a sellers description as to the rarity or desirability of an item is foolish.

While the internet and EBay in particular have made it possible to locate items that were very difficult to find, it did not create any new trains.

There are trains and closely related items that are difficult to find, desirable, and even rare. (Rare being a relative term).

While at the train show in MA I saw a 1060 in the same shape as mine with a price tag of $25 without the tender. I got mine with it's tender for $10 last year. The seller was a young kid maybe younger than me. I wanted to say its not worth the $25. It's just a basic scout locomotive. He must have thought it was worth so much since being post war. I went by his booth about twenty minutes before the show was to end on Sunday the 1060 was still there. Too many people think just because it's old the trains are worth millions.

The one I saw on Ebay said,"rare MTH factory prototype, $39.95 Buy It Now"

Jerry

quote:

I went by his booth about twenty minutes before the show was to end on Sunday the 1060 was still there. Too many people think just because it's old the trains are worth millions.

I am not saying what a 1060 is worth, but just because it was unsold at the end of the show does not mean the seller won't get his $25 at the next show. Most folks think that I price my stuff attractively. Yet I still bring things home after every show

If you picked up a nice 1060 with the correct tender for $10, you got a bargain.

Rare is a big red flag to me... as soon as an item is posted as rare, I leave it.

"Very Rare" Marx Manual switches...

"Impossible to find this extremely rare Right switch."

"You can buy this item on eBay right now! Just select the "Buy it Now" tab."

Rare MTH??????

MTH hasn't been around long enough to have rare!!!!!!!!!!

I've been watching for a 665/2065 lately. Seen an average price as far as those without tenders,with, with/without boxes,etc. I saw one recently, with an asking for just the locomotive, no box, for more than one recently went with the tender and boxes. I politely contacted the seller, and as friendly as I could suggested that he may want to research his price. He replied "well my BIN is what the price guide says it's worth".......

The temptation to contact a seller with overpriced stuff is something that probably should be resisted.  It either sells or it doesn't, but the seller is entitled to his or her opinion.

That's my opinion.  In 2-rail we routinely see stuff priced at orders of magnitude more than market, and once in a while somebody bites.  That's the free market at work.

It was a bargain but don't run it that much still a nice one though. The seller also had some things in a junk bin no price on them. If it's one thing I have learned is, if its not priced. I won't play "the what do you think it's worth game".

Far too many sellers go by what the guide guide says for a mint in condition locomotive even when the seller's locomotive or car is in well used condition.

Hard to figure out why there was no bidders on this one ?

Unfortunately, my "local" hobby shop is a 250 mile roundtrip. As a result, what little buying I do is on the internet, often Ebay. I've just come to ignore all of those superlatives: pristine, vintage, rare, prototype, etc. I often wonder if the people bandying these terms around have ever picked up a dictionary to see what the words actually mean.

Having said that, there was only one item I got off of Ebay that was not as described, and I was able to use it for another project. And only once have I been "burned" by something that was less than what it's description indicated. I'm still figuring out what to do with it. 

It's just a case of buyer beware. Check out everything you can and don't be afraid to ask questions. If the seller is reluctant to give a straight answer, then he won't be selling to me.

quote:

It was a bargain but don't run it that much still a nice one though. The seller also had some things in a junk bin no price on them. If it's one thing I have learned is, if its not priced. I won't play "the what do you think it's worth game".

If there is something that I am interested in purchasing that is either unpriced, or slightly overpriced, I tell the seller that I don't know the book value, but here is what it is worth to me. (I really don't know the book value, I have not purchased a price guide in a very long time).

Ive got two of those 2065s.

my 1rst was my 1rst Lionel. picked it

up at a TCA show in Niagara Falls about 25

years ago for $150 w/ tender.

the 2nd I picked up at Antique World in

Clarence New York for $80 w/ tender.

they both run well.

You hit on one of my biggest pet peeves.  I just move on.....Greg

I always offer $5 or less for stuff in boxes under the table, because 9 times

outta 10, the dealer will take the cash because he doesn't want to lug the stuff home.

When I was totally new to O gauge trains I went to a nearby TCA show.  I was mainly looking for O-31 track, O22 switches, and a Lionel Lines porthole caboose, but when I recognized some 665/2065 on a couple tables I stopped to inquire.  In each instance the seller whipped out that dam price guide and quoted the highest listed price for their borderline abused pretty rough examples.  My O gauge experience to that time consisted of picking up an occasional issue of the klassic (mumble) magazine, but fortunately instinct prevailed and I thanked them and moved on.  As I see it, all these "rare" items have two prices:  priced to sell, and priced to keep.

Pete

Often "rarity" is a product of its availability in any given setting.  For example, I once attended a local estate auction that had a rare Civil War bayonet for sale.  It was not "rare" at all but a standard issue Springfield .58 cal. one.  It was full of rust, too.   A couple of people engaged in a bidding war for this item.  The following week, I went to the Gettysburg relic show where the vendors there had scores of bayonets on display--in really nice shape, too.  I picked one up for 1/3 of what the winning bidder had to pay for the rusty one in my hometown the week before.

That is SO true! 

All the above is preaching to the choir info, if you've been in trains longer than ten

minutes.  I learned that preaching to those with astonomical numbers, and dollar signs in their eyes, on common goods would win no converts when I first discovered eBay. I also learned that stuff that was hard to find, and thought rare, with all the old methods, was there in quantity and a case of, "Let's, see, which one looks the best

condition that I can get for the least bucks?"  I am tempted to email seller and state

that his doflammie is worth nowhere near his opening bid....but I now remember it is

a waste of time.  I haven't bought a price guide in years.....I found prices therein

inflated, and irrelevant when you are trying to negotiate a purchase.  I set a price to sell and that is my price....if I want what you have, I will try to get a better price, and

IF I want it bad enough, I might pay your price, if I can't get it at mine, and think it

might be a while before I found another cheaper.

Ive got two of those 2065s.

sure...rub it in!

I buy it once every ten years just for historical reference.

Along with 'Rare', I think 'Mint' is another one to watch for. I visit my LHS weekly. Besides selling new trains, they also buy and sell vintage trains, postwar and prewar. About every 3rd or 4th visit someone comes in with a box or sack of Lionel trains that they think is worth millions. Usually the LHS owner tells them about all he could use them for is parts to fix up other trains and he does not want them. Many leave quite disappointed. There are some that they do buy, but usually for very little money as they have to clean and repair them and still try to make a profit on re-selling them. 'Mint' might be another 'sales' term to watch out for?  

This is probably one of those situations where the wife says he has too many trains and needs to sell some off, so he says he'll put them on eBay.....

[quote] I picked up at Antique World in Clarence New York for $80 w/ tender []/quote]

While its been years since I've been to Antique World, I did pick up some neat things there. I purchased a mint 1960's scout set at one of their periodic antique shows. The rest of the items were not train related.

IMO, The word "RARE" should be replaced by the statement " not often sold" -  I say this because the main road name I collect is Westinghouse and it seems every time an item appears on an auction site or even a private sale the prices are well above any similar car with a different road name. So because the road name is not often sold, people will over bid or over price their items.    ROCK>me<HARDPLACE

quote:I think Rare and vintage are used all to

often

Along with the word Great!

I once saw a hot wheel listed as one of a kind but the seller had two of them for sale.

Scarce, unusual and "tough to find" now seem to be the go to words for the big auction houses to replace "rare"...

I recently came upon a bunch of unboxed and badly beaten newer (2000's) Lionel trains in including a Harry Potter set in a "Antique" store being advertised as 1950's vintage.They wanted $275! The lady told me they were made in the USA in the 1950's. I told here how can that be?? I then showed her that the everything she had was made in China and that JK Rowling wasn't even born until 1965. The look on her face-PRICELESS! Still in there last time I looked.

Yep, there's rare and priceless stuff everywhere, but sometimes I think folks will just assume without verifying anything.

#1: I once contacted an Ebay seller who had no other trains listed and seemed to be a genuine "flea market" seller. I mentioned that their listing of "rare antique tin litho streetcar" was actually a Bing passenger car fitted with maybe a more modern Lionel power truck and home-made trolley pole.

#2 : I found a 4-piece-boiler Flyer Atlantic basket case at a flea market once, for a decent price and the seller threw in a pre-war Flyer transformer for nothing when I explained what it actually was. Sometimes sellers appreciate an honest buyer I guess.

#3: The same week I saw an "antique" Lionel FA diesel in my local Sally Ann listed in their auction lot, not the regular store. There were bids up to $50 already, and it had been painted and then crudely lettered with nail varnish. Ugh!....but well played with.

Bet me. I've been trying to find an MTH Bessemer F-7 ABA set since they were released ~10 years ago. I think only like 2 were produced. lol.

Jim, too many on here have no clue on scarcity (rarity) of many items made in the last 20 years by MTH or other companies for that matter, but feel compelled to chime in and insist to the contrary anyway.  Only those paying close enough attention or seeking something particular, like yourself, can speak to the issue.

The original thought about the overuse and misuse of the word rare is valid, but still its use and descriptive purpose is still valid, even if some don't understand, when used in a learned perspective.

With TCA has gone to you don't need a sponsor to join anymore I keep seeing "rare hard to find" and they state there a TCA member and give there TCA number out to me it still doesn't mean anything any more either those that use the TCA member and give there number may be legit but its funny ( not ha ha) that all of a sudden I keep seeing there a TCA member to myself a lot of the time a stray away or pay very close to his feed back.