Rebuilding layout progress 2-26-24 final phase

Always an advantage to long track sections over 3 shorter ones.

Less Electrical connections to go bad.

Pic with AnyRail design did not show up; would also help if you posted AnyRail file.  Can't say for sure if your lone 180w 10 amp power supply will be enough; kind of depends on engines you will be running and whether or not any cars are lighted / will be drawing power for other reasons (sound, smoke, etc.).  Also, will switches be drawing track power or separately powered?

Chuck

Given the equipment size you are running and plan to run, I think your power supply should handle it, given how you plan to wire it.

Chuck

@PRR1950 posted:

Given the equipment size you are running and plan to run, I think your power supply should handle it, given how you plan to wire it.

Chuck

Thank you Chuck,

On my previous 4x16 layout there were 2 loops with feeders only at the ends of each loop with 9 switches. With 2 trains running I had no problem metering 18v throughout.

Gene

Are you sure you'll be happy with it 3 yrs from now as essentially you are just running loops with very limited switching options and no ability to change direction.  Frequently, folks can live without a way to change direction but without switching options grow bored.  However, if you enjoy running loops than by all means go for it! 

I would suggest changing the design of your bottom siding.  Use the curved section of a LH switch as the last curved piece and enter the siding on the straight section of the switch.  You'll gain 2 feet in length to the siding and avoid a S-curve.

-Greg

Also, the way you have the sidings on your inside loop means that one will be a facing point siding meaning the engine will enter it going forward, instead of reverse.   Just pointing it out in case that matters.

-Greg

Sure, track power will work for track switches, but adjustments to the throttle will affect track power (and thus the speed of the locos) and also the performance of the switches.  If you intend to install TMCC, then 18 volts will be constantly directed to all the rails and switches. The switches would work fine with just 14v connected to them. Further, by providing a separate power source to the switches you "give back" some electrical headroom from a 180-watt "brick" to the locos and operating accessories.

Many hobbyists add bigger and power-thirsty loco to their collection as time goes forward; in which case consider placing a second 180-watt "brick" in the track circuit then, if not sooner, to provide twice the wattage for locos. Lionel makes a wiring connector for that purpose.

I "second the motion" of the responder who suggested adding a reversing loop. Watching trains running in circles may soon become monotonous and boring.

Carry on,  regardless ...

Mike Mottler    LCCA 12394

I agree with Mike. Powering your switches off a separate transformer will give you better operation of your locomotives.

@Greg Houser posted:

Also, the way you have the sidings on your inside loop means that one will be a facing point siding meaning the engine will enter it going forward, instead of reverse.   Just pointing it out in case that matters.

-Greg

Excellent idea on using the 060 curve part of switch, I didn’t think of that. Would it be like using the curve of the switch on the inner loops? The trains will run clockwise on the inner and outer loop and counterclockwise on the middle using the top siding.
I like the ideas of reversing direction but not sure how to design it into my plan and still keep the sidings.

Thanks Greg and all for your input.

Gene

I would also be concerned about single directional running. Here’s my limited but ongoing experience.

I have a 6 x 16 layout (similar to your space) that narrows to 4 ft wide in the middle to accommodate a future control board and operator space. My initial track config was nested 054 and 042 loops with one reversing loop, several spurs for accessories and a long trolley line. The main loops were connected to each other at one point. I could run two trains simultaneously. If running one train it could change directions once without reversing. I posted it on the forum and asked for opinions.  Someone suggested I might lose interest in watching two trains loop around continuously. I agreed so I made major changes.

Attached are pictures of the current config. It now has two nested loops that converge at one point and a long passing siding. There are two reversing loops. Only one train can run at a time but it can go anywhere in any direction without reversing. I can store one train while running another and switch them out using the sidings. Running is interesting and fun but can be pretty harrowing at times. Definitely not boring.

I don’t know if this is the final layout, probably not. I want to build mountains, tunnels and bridges at some point. The wiring stays on the table top until I decide.

@MarkVB posted:

I would also be concerned about single directional running. Here’s my limited but ongoing experience.

I have a 6 x 16 layout (similar to your space) that narrows to 4 ft wide in the middle to accommodate a future control board and operator space. My initial track config was nested 054 and 042 loops with one reversing loop, several spurs for accessories and a long trolley line. The main loops were connected to each other at one point. I could run two trains simultaneously. If running one train it could change directions once without reversing. I posted it on the forum and asked for opinions.  Someone suggested I might lose interest in watching two trains loop around continuously. I agreed so I made major changes.

Attached are pictures of the current config. It now has two nested loops that converge at one point and a long passing siding. There are two reversing loops. Only one train can run at a time but it can go anywhere in any direction without reversing. I can store one train while running another and switch them out using the sidings. Running is interesting and fun but can be pretty harrowing at times. Definitely not boring.

I don’t know if this is the final layout, probably not. I want to build mountains, tunnels and bridges at some point. The wiring stays on the table top until I decide.

I’m interested to see but there’s no image. Other than the size, I’m open to any suggestions.

Ditto on the separation of power source for the switch machines.  I use the old school ZW for dedicated power to my switch machines (tortoise) and accessories.  Being able to set a variable voltage gives you a little more latitude for tweaking.

I installed the benchwork extension yesterday and stained it today. After the excellent info about train reversing, I’ve been searching the forum for any ideas on how to make a 3 loop with reversing and lots of action. I found a 4x16 design by Ken from 2017 that I uploaded to my AnyRail file and did copy and paste within my 060 loop. I had to modify it a bit, but I shouldn’t get bored with the design. There seems to be a lot going on with some future options. Thanks to all and Ken (if you get to see this post).

Gene

Genemed:

Clever placement of a CROSSING in the inner loop of your revised track plan!  Reversing loops provide options during operations -- as anti-monotony features.  Carry on ...

Mike Mottler    LCCA 12394

Progress on rebuild. Installed main power with 4 feeds to each loop, switch extensions thru terminal blocks and vehicle lighting. I did as much wiring as possible without the plywood installed to minimize back and neck pain.

Rebuild progress. Installed 3 sheets of plywood and perimeter finish moulding. Waiting on track order to arrive.

Should I put a coat of an earth color paint before I lay the track?
I have seen a few larger layouts that the track is on the unfinished plywood prior to scenery.

Gene

It’ll be much easier to do a coat now. I waited to do mine after and it took much longer. Looks great so far though! Keep up the great progress!

@Richizzle07 posted:

It’ll be much easier to do a coat now. I waited to do mine after and it took much longer. Looks great so far though! Keep up the great progress!

Thanks Rich, I’m figuring an earthy tone which could be a good base for the fine and coarse turfs.

Gene

Rebuild update: painted the plywood and installed track. I should be getting 2 sets of graduated trestles today for the outer loop. I’ll be using the 1/4” shim method I learned about here under every other base. Also installed a panel I made for the Woodland Scenics lighting. I think it should be easier and neater than the mishmash of wires I had on the last layout.

Gene

Gene

Have you considered using a couple of new switches to connect the inside loop to the outside loop?

That will allow one train to traverse the whole layout and allow reversing the one train on the outside loop.

Charlie

@Choo Choo Charlie posted:

Gene

Have you considered using a couple of new switches to connect the inside loop to the outside loop?

That will allow one train to traverse the whole layout and allow reversing the the one train on the outside loop.

Charlie

Hi Charlie,

I did consider that, but by using 2 sets of trestles with the 1/4 shim it will utilize just about the whole outer loop less the one track on either side of the closest siding. If in the future I want to join the outer and inner loops, I’ll lessen the perimeter incline and add switches in the front.

Gene

Rebuild update: finished the graduated trestle set (2) with the 1/4” shims. Wired all switches and track feeders. Waiting on a couple pieces of track for the 2 interior loop sidings. Even though I preordered the Lionel Base 3, I still utilized the switch controllers I had already installed. Such a relaxing hobby!

Gene

Late to the dance, but I would have recommended installing a topper such as homasote or 1" foam on top of the plywood for noise reduction when using FT. I think you may find the noise from FT on bare plywood to be excessive.

If those are out of the question at this stage, I would strongly recommend a foam roadbed specifically made for FT and available on the 'Bay.

Thanks Richie, if I find it excessively loud, I’ll keep that in mind. I just checked it out on eBay. Great idea!

Update: finished laying the track and did a test run. All looks good with a constant voltage with 2 trains running. Now I need to purchase another locomotive.

@Mike H Mottler posted:

Sure, track power will work for track switches, but adjustments to the throttle will affect track power (and thus the speed of the locos) and also the performance of the switches.  If you intend to install TMCC, then 18 volts will be constantly directed to all the rails and switches. The switches would work fine with just 14v connected to them. Further, by providing a separate power source to the switches you "give back" some electrical headroom from a 180-watt "brick" to the locos and operating accessories.

Many hobbyists add bigger and power-thirsty loco to their collection as time goes forward; in which case consider placing a second 180-watt "brick" in the track circuit then, if not sooner, to provide twice the wattage for locos. Lionel makes a wiring connector for that purpose.

I "second the motion" of the responder who suggested adding a reversing loop. Watching trains running in circles may soon become monotonous and boring.

Carry on,  regardless ...

Mike Mottler    LCCA 12394

Mike, I agree with you In principal ;  but one size doesn’t fit all.

I ran across a problem on a friend’s layout. He runs Ross switches with Zstuff motors an in some cases a Zstuff relay. The relays control power rails on a double crossover. The relays were acting up and Dennis cautioned that the voltage should be 13 volts. Problem solved.  

Genemed,

The layout is coming together nicely

Could you tell me what stain you used on the Mianne bench work

Thanks

@EMD posted:

Genemed,

The layout is coming together nicely

Could you tell me what stain you used on the Mianne bench work

Thanks

Thanks, I purchased the stain from Home Depot, excellent 1 coat coverage. It has a thicker and an opaque color pigment.

Gene

Thanks for the reply Gene

Your progress looks great, Gene!!

Moving along Gene. Ken has posted some great plans. I believe he has a complete library on the forum.

Some more suggestions since we all like to armchair quarterback

The two long spur sidings- if you add a pair of switches they could double as passing sidings and allow an engine to pull a train in, exit the siding, come around, and push the train in the rest of the way. I marked the locations in blue. This will also increase the operational variety but having a pair of trains ready to go on those two loops.

The switches on the middle loop could be curved type as mentioned previously which would extend the length of the siding too.

You mentioned not ballasting fastrack. I did just the sides on the few sections I have and like the results. I painted a heavy coat of white glue on the sides and sprinkled the ballast on. I used a floral gravel that I found at Michael's.

Keep up the good work.

Bob

@RSJB18 posted:

Moving along Gene. Ken has posted some great plans. I believe he has a complete library on the forum.

Some more suggestions since we all like to armchair quarterback

The two long spur sidings- if you add a pair of switches they could double as passing sidings and allow an engine to pull a train in, exit the siding, come around, and push the train in the rest of the way. I marked the locations in blue. This will also increase the operational variety but having a pair of trains ready to go on those two loops.

The switches on the middle loop could be curved type as mentioned previously which would extend the length of the siding too.

You mentioned not ballasting fastrack. I did just the sides on the few sections I have and like the results. I painted a heavy coat of white glue on the sides and sprinkled the ballast on. I used a floral gravel that I found at Michael's.

Keep up the good work.

Bob

Bob,

Would you mind sharing the name of the product at Michael's? That is good looking ballast.

@Guitarmike posted:

Bob,

Would you mind sharing the name of the product at Michael's? That is good looking ballast.

With pleasure. They have a wide selection of floral gravels. I have used the black, brown, and silver on the layout. Some are a little shiny but that can be knocked down with a wash of acrylic paint.

@RSJB18 posted:

Moving along Gene. Ken has posted some great plans. I believe he has a complete library on the forum.

Some more suggestions since we all like to armchair quarterback

The two long spur sidings- if you add a pair of switches they could double as passing sidings and allow an engine to pull a train in, exit the siding, come around, and push the train in the rest of the way. I marked the locations in blue. This will also increase the operational variety but having a pair of trains ready to go on those two loops.

The switches on the middle loop could be curved type as mentioned previously which would extend the length of the siding too.

You mentioned not ballasting fastrack. I did just the sides on the few sections I have and like the results. I painted a heavy coat of white glue on the sides and sprinkled the ballast on. I used a floral gravel that I found at Michael's.

Keep up the good work.

Bob

Bob, excellent idea on the siding switches, I didn’t think of that. Great knowledge and experience on this forum. I’m not planning on any scenery for a bit for reasons like this. I’ll play around with that idea on the program. Strictly my opinion, I’m planning on using turfs and grasses against the roadbed of the fastrack. I used Brennan’s on my last layout and could never be satisfied with difference in colors against fastrack, again (just my opinion). I still have a bag+ of it I’m not going to use.

Gene

@RSJB18 posted:

With pleasure. They have a wide selection of floral gravels. I have used the black, brown, and silver on the layout. Some are a little shiny but that can be knocked down with a wash of acrylic paint.

Thank you!

I like your plan and execution Gene. Looks good so far. Your wiring is also nice and neat, and I saw some labels too. Good idea. I used Homasote on top of my plywood, but you may find that you don’t need it, as you mentioned. Your plan will provide lots of operating action. Keep up the good work.

Andy

Update: Started placing some buildings I made where I think there’ll go, not quite sure yet. If it stays for a few days while running trains and I like, it stays!

Gene

Hi Gene,  Looking really good!  You row of buildings along the track could be landscaped in by making the track part of the main street, sort of like a trolly/main line.  Given the look of the buldings, it may work out for you.  You just need to elevate the buildings and street to be the same height as the track.  Best,   

A great idea from Dave B about the buildings. As it is road access to them would be limited. Take a look at photos of Ashland VA where the double track still runs down the middle of main street, depot in the street. Sees over 50 trains a day CSX and Amtrak regionals and long distance trains. Has a great hotel with a balcony with a view of the tracks and a great hobby shop. My wife and I are planning a few days vacation there soon.