Response from Lionel re: Conrail GP-35 lettering problem

Many kudos to Lionel for "stepping up" on this. I don't own the locomotive(s) in question but good to see this plan in place.

Wow! Nice job Lionel!

Customer support just doesn't get any better than that.  Kudos to Lionel.

Ed

I don't own any of these engines either but I am impressed that Lionel is "doing the right thing" here.  It certainly adds to my comfort level about ordering something like this from them.

Pity the same cannot be said about their quality control.

LOL, I wonder how many people (if any) will keep the engines as they are (as a curiosity item).

Wow!  Less than 24 hour response time with a solution.  Mike really has his finger on the pulse.

Dave

Now they are collectors' items.

Lionel is to be congratulated for this most acceptable solution. 

However, it costs less to do it right the first time.  This episode is another validation of my position that one end of Lionel doesn't know what the other end is doing.

Rusty

Only if you choose not to get them fixed.  My guess is Lionel learned from the Santa Fe shell issue earlier on that the shells must be swapped by Lionel and not the customer.

Folks were buying the new shells without returning the old.  Some folks bought more shells than they needed causing a shortage of folks who actually needed them.

The way I read it, Lionel will do all the work, you get new shells and Lionel will keep the old most likely to be recycled.

Great Customer Service...no bickering, no fix it yourself, no this is the way it is!

Now they are collectors' items.

While it's unfortunate that something as flawed as that ever got shipped, it's nice to see Lionel stepping up to fix them.

I wonder where this service was when I got my PARR U-Boats without the keystone decals on one side?  Maybe I have to ask again about getting those fixed?

Lionel is doing right by its customers, and it is to Mike Reagan's great credit that there was no fiddling around and circling the wagons - just a commitment to fix the problem. But, it's a pity that stuff like this keeps happening. They need a Chinese Mike Reagan to deal with the QA problem at the factory. Those shells never should have gotten screwed onto the chassis, let alone put in boxes and shipped to the United States. 

I too am an old Lionel fan, but totally agree they need a Rep in China overseeing what is going into that box. Their reputation is being ruined by the shoddy products being brought to the marketplace.

Perhaps someone at Lionel should be looking at what they are receiving from China before sending it out the door.  A pre-delivery checklist sounds in order.  This is too glaring of a miss not to have been noticed had someone at Lionel taken the time to open a box up and inspect the product *before* letting them leave for the dealers.  This isn't a small backwards horse.  The can opener logos being absent are a HUGE miss.

Oh, and Lionel gets a huge thumbs up for taking care of this so quickly in the manner that they are.

Now just maybe they will agree to fix the $799.99 MSRP Vision Line NS Genset!

That ship sailed a long time ago.  I seriously doubt there will be any new steps taken at this point that would apply to older items.  I wouldn't expect that from Lionel or any other manufacturer (ie.- the "Merrmac" thing with MTH).

What's wrong with the Genset?  I don't have one of those (though I'd like to), so I have no dog in that fight.

Allan, my two units are still under warranty, why wouldn't they address them?

John, I seem to recall reading here that the horse logo on the NS Genset is backwards.  It's not a lettering issue, so it's quite easy to overlook unless you're a NS fan... and even then I'm willing to bet some folks wouldn't give it a second glance.

David

Quite honestly, I doubt it very much.  We're just not in a "collector's era" these days... and few if anybody even care about that stuff anymore -- especially with all the mistakes occurring in overseas production these days.

The whole "variations" concept was largely promoted by the "price guide" folks, and needs two essential ingredients to fly:  one being an authoritative entity to document all the variations; and the other being an interested audience who cares enough to create demand for those variations.  Someone may step up to the former, but I don't think there's sufficient interest in the latter today.  The largely "operator's culture" views factory errors as junk -- more or less... (sorry to be so blunt).  And without the second component, there's no inherent value assessed to any of the variations or factory errors.

Just my opinion... But I'm sure there will be those here who are very glad that I'm one less person they'll need to trip over if they're interested in one of these dust collectors.

David

Another situation where one has to call this significant hurdle for customers either a case of the glass being half empty or half full. While it's a wash for most customers financially  with a reasonable solution, I imagine this correction cost Lionel an extra expense, in addition to a headache, which seems to be yet another multiplier of undoing a error made in China ( or at least thats where fingers like to point) but then again," it takes two to tango." I think this is simply a small hiccup. However if you have a backlog of them, one of the intangibles of doing business is credibility, brand loyalty always has it's unconditional purchase power. Like everything or so it seems toy trains are no longer a simple path from A to B whether it is quality or electronic control. A sign of our times.

 The largely "operator's culture" views factory errors as junk -- more or less...

Dead on, Rocky. I buy my toys to play with, not to put on a shelf and brag about having a "rare variation." A paint error to me is just a mistake. I make enough mistakes myself, I don't need to pay Lionel $500 to make one for me. 

Absolutely correct.  The days when variations and production errors mattered are long gone.

Keep your undecorated Conrail locomotive if you care to, but don't expect it to bring you more $ down the road if/when you try to sell it.

quote:

The whole "variations" concept was largely promoted by the "price guide" folks, and needs two essential ingredients to fly:  one being an authoritative entity to document all the variations; and the other being an interested audience who cares enough to create demand for those variations

IMHO, the whole variations concept turned into nothing more than a treasure hunt as people tried to come up with newly identified variations to associate with ever higher premium prices. IMHO, major variations, such as a 6844 rocket car in red versus black is noteable, but when you get down to the color of the knuckle rivet in an otherwise identical car, that is too much for me.  Oh well, to each their own.

I can agree with David that the people who care about variations in newly made stuff are few and far between. But I do think there are still plenty of folks collecting older trains.

While I am sure Lionel does not like this situation, at least Mike and his crew have stepped up to the plate and are doing the right thing.  This is much better than saying "oh well, if you don't like it, just return it back to the dealer for a refund".  Those that ordered the locomotives WANTED them and really don't want to get a refund...they want their locomotives.  I can tell you that when you have to pre-order out of a catalog and then receive something completely different than expected, it is not a good experience.  I remember a few years ago ordering a Burlington E-8 ABA that was supposed to have the correct "chrome/stainless finish" only to receive a painted silver finish.  Their response....nothing!  Never got a returned e-mail, call or anything.  Finally after the thread on the forum concerning this got crazy, the official response was to just return them for a refund and it was just a "mistake" with the factory not getting the correct instructions....  So....guys, this response from Mike and Lionel is fantastic and we should all be very thankful.

Alan

I believe that Lionel has really taken the Bull by the Horns on this, it is just about as much of a no hassle return procedure as one could expect. They will email the label to you or send it by US Mail. You put the label on the box and drop it off at the local UPS Store, or go on line and schedule a UPS pickup. Then the engine is returned better then new. I am positive there will be a new procedure instituted to try and help prevent this in the future. Granted the system is not perfect, but they do have the best customer service that one could ask for. Where else would the man in charge   allow the customer to have his direct email address, much less expect to receive a response. I have gotten responses from Mike as late a 9:30 in the evening. There is a reason that the engines on my layout came in orange and blue boxes.

Thank you Lionel for the excellent work handling this.

If some of you keep up with the pointless and stupid barbs you are throwing at Lionel, we will take steps to curtail that kind of posting.

Let's face it - Lionel screwed up. And within 24 hours of becoming aware of their mistake, they have a plan in place to fix it at no cost to the customer. What more do you want?

You Lionel haters don't need to post in this thread. I doubt that you ordered one of these engines, so you have no dog in the fight anyway.

If you are going to down grade Lionel for what has or hasn’t been done, I will say this that Lionel has in a very timely case and it is being address.  One think is the back lash of some people with an ax for Lionel or another manufacture I wouldn’t say such a bad statement as (SkyHookDepot) came up with.  There isn’t a manufacture in the world that has not made a mistake.  I will say that the best of them have tried their best to get the problem fixed.  I look more favorable to the ones that get it done in as fast as they can.  The other side is the one that take and do nothing for you.

I see Mike Reagan has responded to the problem and it will cost us not a penny.  I can still run my train and I will get a new shell.

Phillip   

It's interesting to me that most seem to overlook that there is a competition among manufacturers in place as a context to this hiccup. For every regret a customer has, I think it's reasonable to assume Lionel has ten. Not to be overly dramatic about it, but having been there and done that, situations like this cause a lot of self examination in terms of a repeat performance. I am certain Lionel does not want to hand the knife by the hilt to their competition. On the half full side, some improvements to QA are more than likely a topic as I write this at Lionel. All of the gnashing of teeth or bashing or praise is sort of a background music Lionel would have given it's eye teeth to avoid.

What might have been a nagging problem now will get the attention it deserves  or at least one would think so..so perhaps this is a silver lining, an opportunity rather than a  future case of deja vu .Perfection is always an ideal rather than a reality.

Kudos to Lionel, great customer service! Are you people kidding me! An entire production run was allowed to leave the factory in China, get shipped to Lionel in the USA and then sent to dealers and customers without anyone catching this discrepancy. And if anyone is naive enough to think Lionel is going to eat the cost of this, remember this incident the next time Lionel issues a catalog and prices have increased again.

By simple common sense, I think the rising cost of participating in the hobby ( as with all commodities) simply magnifies these sort of issues. While in theory, while an investment in a ten cent part versus five hundred dollars makes a world of difference to the degree of customer dissatisfaction when things go south, at the same time, anyone in quality assurance will tell you the ten cent error can create five hundred dollar headaches for the manufacturer. I think this has reached the tipping point at Lionel, and I think it's safe to assume, the last thing they would want to do with the competition in mind is to either increase costs due to their own errors or create more labor intensive recalls or repairs that detract from the black ink on the profit side.

Southwest Hiawatha

Ironically, I always keep an eye open for new products from Lionel and while I did not order this specific product, it would defy common sense not to recognise there is a quality assurance issue at play with remote manufacturing at Lionel that makes me somewhat hesitant to make a purchase if there were product that was unique to my specific tastes. I agree with your comments inasmuch as I am a potential future customer in terms of having a horse in the race.

I think they have done some things that are very positive in promoting the hobby, and I am watching to see if there are any announcements coming from them as to how ( in specific terms) they will address nagging quality issues. I think it would greatly negatively impact consumer confidence ( outside of brand loyalists ) if they do not.  Again, all this seems to be based on common sense rather than emotions, which I have no overwrought baggage on this one way or another, other than to say, I am sure others are watching as well. 

I was the person who started the original thread on this topic.  I'm pleased that Lionel will be making replacement shells as I figured I was going to be told to just return them to the dealer for a refund.  I was looking forward to these units, and glad that Lionel is planning on making things right.  Thanks Mike Reagan for your fast response!

BTW, is there anyone else on this forum who ordered these units and was also shocked my the extent of this error?  My guess is that not that many of these units were made, and perhaps that's why no one else brought this up on the forum besides myself.  I bought these from a very large dealer, and he was not aware of the problem and at the time I called him had not received any other complaints about it.  (He did get another in less than 24 hours as I found out on a follow up phone call). But, I'd be shocked if purchasers who are Conrail fans didn't notice this error the instant they pulled the engine out of the foam cradle.  It would be almost impossible not to notice.

Just thinking...................How about  Lionel selecting 3 new and different cab numbers for the replacement shells. 

Regards,

Swafford

If they use a different roadnumber, the old shells could be completed and re-issued later.

I received a Williams scale GG-1 several years ago, new in the box. The shell had several deep gouges in it. Not scratches, but gouges that went halfway through the thickness of the shell and ran about a third of the way across the shell.

Then, it was painted over the gouges, then it was lettered over the paint and the gouges. That meant that the shell had been damaged after the molding process, but before the painting and lettering process. These were big, long gouges, and lots of folks on the assembly line had an opportunity to see them while building the loco. None of them apparently called the problem out.

Maybe there is something in the manufacturing culture in the plants where our toys are built.

The problem?  Low paid, non-skilled labor.

Mike Reagan:  nice job in how this was addressed and the quick solution. 

All Others:  this is why Lionel hired Mike

My personal 2 cents:  how this was handled start to finish makes me very impressed with the customer service philosophy of Lionel, LLC.  For anyone thinking of purchasing a Lionel product, this is certainly a positive to consider.  Sure, one could question why it happened, etc.  It did.  Lionel will most likely add some procedures to verify final product.  Frankly, this seems minor.  It is cosmetic and is already being corrected.  The public notice and the fix happened very fast.  And I am sure those that have them are very pleased that the mechanics/technology under the shell works very well and is a nice addition to their collection.

Final Fact:  I have no skin in this game,  I have 2 lionel engines - one made in 1932 and one made in 1999.  I run mostly with another brand.  I wish my other brand that I use had the level of customer service that Lionel (Mike Reagan) provides.  I am very impressed with Lionel's actions. Maybe this is the event that makes my next purchase of an engine actually be from Lionel.