Results of Norfolk & Western 611 steam study to be announced Friday

more coincidence than anything else.  Excursion trains were growing and exceeding the power of the 4501, 750, 630 and 722.  They needed an engine to handle 20 car trains reliably.  Without going from the ground up and restoring something, they tried leasing a few engines that were operable.  First was T&P 610, which was a VERY big engine and had a bunch of issues (overheated bearings, among others). Next came CP 2839, which was simply overmatched with the size of the trains and the profile of the railroad, requiring diesels on a regular basis.  Those 2 engines pretty much summed up the ready-to-run engines that were available for a long-term lease, and neither one fit the bill, so they were returned when the leases were over.

Then, Southern undertook the first big steam restoration in C&O 2716, which worked fine until it experiencing some firebox issues.  By then, 611 was coming online with the SR/N&W merger, so 2716 was shelved.  611 just happened to be very reliable, and with Robert Claytor running NS, the 1218 and 611 were all that were needed.  There were other engines that made appearances during the NS tenure (152, 587, 290, 765, 1522, and of course the return of the 4501), but when you have a good, reliable engine in the 611, why keep searching?

Kevin

With 611 on tap...now we're really gonna boil some water!   Hey while we're at it, let's up and fix some Red Birds!   Can ya dig it?  I knew you could!

What is a redbird?

Where I come from it's any CB&Q hood unit painted red & gray.

Rusty

Original N&W passenger GP9 units that were painted the sam read as their passenger equipment. The N&W didn't have ver many of the "Red Birds", maybe 15 at the most?

I suppose, as long as an engine is operated under the auspices and with the blessing of a major railroad. Otherwise, it's been my understanding that it's problematic getting permission to run a steam engine on railroads' right-of-way. I think that's long been a major problem/limitation for steam engine sponsors.

I'd think there may be a limit on how many steam engines any railroad will allow to use their tracks. After all, it is more than a little hassle for railroads to schedule additional trains, especially non-revenue steam engines, and supply helpers, and provide space on busy lines.

If you like mainline steam, this will make you cry:

http://www.uksteam.info/tours/trs13.htm

In the neighborhood of 40+ trips in July alone.

ChipR

Not an original "real" Red Bird, but some sort of GP9 that has been painted red.

There's twenty Red Birds originally, in two lots.  The first five were converted from an earlier passenger config.  Nos. 500-504.  The next fifteen were built with all the EMD/ N&W passenger improvements at the factory.  505 -519, IIRC. I believe a real Red Bird does exist in a museum...not sure if any of the others have survived.  Those first five were also numbered in the high 700s when new. 

Here's the NW GP9 at Spencer Shop

Thanks, but that road number is the reason that I stated, above, that the GP9 at Historic Spencer Shops is NOT a "real N&W" red bird. The N&W had only 20 of the red GP9 units for passenger service (according to jaygee's post above), and thus the 20th road number would have ben #619. I wonder what the original heritage of that #620 really is?

That 620 is an N&W GEEP for sure but not a real Red Bird, and this can be seen with the frame side sill.  The passenger GEEPs had a GP20 type tank arrangement with parallel air tanks on top of the fuel tank sides. There was no tool box storage with the passenger GEEPs.  The first five were originally built with frames very similar to the above unit, but changed at the time of the later passenger GEEP order to reflect the new standard of the day.  OTOH, most folks won't know any of this or really care, so 620 could sub for a real 'Bird and likely get away with it!

Here are some pics showing the tank arrangement.

It's quite possible the 620 IS the 620.  620 is a valid N&W (freight) GP9 number. 

Besides, weren't the passenger geeps numbered 500-521?  I only have a generalized roster at my disposal.

Rusty

Nope. The "real, original" N&W Red Birds where  numbered 500 thru 519. Surprisingly, I would up riding quite a few of the red birds, back in the late summer of 1962 because some of the new GP30 units I was responsible for, out of Portsmouth, Ohio, had passenger air signal lines and train-line steam conduits. The N&W often operated "Baseball Specials" out of Portsmouth to Cincinnati for afternoon/evening Cincinnati Reds home games. The N&W would put together an MU consist of one Red Bird, and one of the new GP30 units, in order to handle the passenger specials to Cincinnati and return. Pretty enjoyable "work trips" plus a free baseball game for the N&W crew.  

Sorry, Hot. 

There were 22 passenger GP9s numbered from 500-521.  The GP30s started at 522 and went to 565.

I ran a bunch of both of them.

EdKing

I stand corrected, as Ed King is obviously correct. I was just going by what jaygee posted, without checking my records. I have the ORIGINAL EMD order file for the GP30 delivery, which was my very assignment for EMD, back in June of 1962. The EMD internal order number was 5637, indicating NO TRADE IN UNITS, and was for 44 2250 HP GP30 units, road numbers 522 thru 565. I have the EMD builder plate for unit #527, serial number 27360, which was presented to me by Mr. Bill Honeycutt upon the removal from service of all the GP30s. The #527 was the lead unit on the consist of three new GP30s which I rode on my first "official work trip", as well as their first runs (trailing units were #525 and #524). Tough job but somebody had to do it.

Thanks Ed.

I think this thread has officially been hijacked...

Rich,

What if any effect will the 611's return to service have on the loan / lease of the N&W aux tender that 765 has used for a few years?

I would think that the N&W aux tender will return to the Roanoke Museum when ever they ask for it. Then the 765 folks will use their own aux tender, after they repair and up-grade some things on it.

Sorry Ed, I should have clarified that. All the GP30 units were pre-serviced/set-up at Shaffers Crossing Roundhouse upon receipt from EMD. Then the units would make their "shake-down" runs from Roanoke to Hagerstown, MD and return. The N&W general kept the new GP30s at Roanoke until the first monthly inspection, and after that they all were assigned to Portsmouth, Ohio. As best as I can remember, EMD relocated me from Roanoke to Portsmouth in about August of '62, and I stayed there until the B&O GP30 deliver began in about November and carried through the winter of 1962/1963. Got pretty cold in Cumberland!

Somebody sneaked a few extra GEEPs in there on me, sorry guys...but all my books are packed up right now!  Thought it was 5 & 15 on the Red Birds!  And as good as they would look on an N&W passenger consist, 611 will look even better!

Very nice segue back to the topic. 

Our lease on that N&W/Roanoke A-tank runs for one more year. However, over this winter we intend to do the work needed on our own A-tank so we can place it back in service. It needs all the pins and bushings replaced in the brake rigging and also some wheel work, if memory serves.

If my memory is correct, there was at least one Auxiliary Water Tender at Roanoke Scrap Iron and Metal along with the "M"s. Hopefully they got saved. If need-be I would like to think it could be restored.

OK, back on subject with this thread. Does anyone know what happens to the contributions if they fall short of the $3.5 MM prior to the deadline? And is there a tote board showing where the contributions are now?

Gilly

Waiting for a check to come so I can make my contribution......

I believe they said the funds would be used for the care and maint. and display of the 611 at the VMT.

Chris

I'm just a little worried but OCTOBER isn't to far away. 

I've saw that overall $5 million was needed but the $3.5 would go to getting 611 up and running. Can 611 be moved to Spencer and all the work completed within 6 months to have her back on the rail for the NS 2014 Steam Schedule?

Also I would hope that 765 would switch with 611 and do some running on the Piedmont Division.......Never had the chance to see her in operations in person.

I was on Blue Ridge when the NP 759 pulled the last passenger train out of Roanoke. It would be incredible to be standing at roughly the same spot 40+ years later seeing the NP 765 pulling a passenger train back to Roanoke.

Just made my donation...

If the reactivation of 611 becomes a reality, I sure would like to see her roll from Richmond to Roanoke as she did in the past, or at least from Petersburg to Norfolk.  I believe I'm safe in stating it would be a sell-out!

Fire up 611 and bring her on down here to River City!

See, Rich - the thing got re-hijacked!  Everything turned out OK.

EdKing

I think they need some deeeeeep pockets to make that happen.  I just don't see it happening purely from the pockets of rail fans....at least not any time soon.

Chris

With enough money, anything is possible.  It's all a matter of how much money you want to throw at it and how much subcontracting you want to do.  Given enough money, you could see the J under steam next year.  The fact she was in pretty good cindition in '94 and that a lot of the work is basically a known quantity (discounting the things that come from sitting under an outdoor shed for 18 years) makes the to-do list rather short.

As far as the 765 on the Piedmont Division, I wouldn't hold my breath.  Sure would make the trip to see her in action a much shorter drive.  That said, between 630, 4501 and likely 611 next year, the chances are pretty slim in the forseeable future.  It would be nice to see however.  The only time 765 has set wheels on the Piedmont Division was running around the wye in Asheville in '82 while she was subbing for the 2716.

If everything plays out the way it looks right now, I'd expect 630 to predominantly stay at or near the Tennesee Valley Railroad Museum next year unless the rumoured doubleheading materializes.  That way, TVRM gets to keep a steam engine at the museum, which keeps attendance up.  At the same time, I'd expect the 4501 to be out a good amount with all the modifications that are going on.  Common sense says that you don't do all that work (like installing a stoker) unless you are planning to keep her out on the road for an extended period of time.  With the 4501 and the J covering the southeast, the only way you are likely to see the 765 in these parts is if NS does some big steam gathering--which probably would be Chattanooga and not Spencer.

That said, I'd love to be proven wrong.

Kevin

Yeah they could just build a new one...

Chris