Has anyone ordered and received anything from RMT's new STO operation?
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Originally Posted by Bob Severin:
Has anyone ordered and received anything from RMT's new STO operation?
I ordered some GG1s. I didn't understand they were a pre-order though, and not yet available, so I don't expect them soon. A shame, too, I need a GG1, at least one, right now.
Lee, such a deal I have for you. 
I have a Williams scale GG-1 that I was going to convert to TMCC. Since I found the JLC GG-1 at York at an attractive price, this one is no longer in the queue for conversion.
I sent you an e-mail gunrunner. Thanks.
Originally Posted by Bob Severin:
Has anyone ordered and received anything from RMT's new STO operation?
Ordered, yes. Received, no. Am looking forward to my tuscan GG-1, though!
First RMT container scheduled to arrive 12-22 and it is loaded with STO stuff to ship.
Everything on it is STO.
Since container is coming land bridge, it is expected to actually pass RMT offices on a NS container train in the next few days.
Thanks.
Walter/RMT
http://www.nassauhobby.com/XC4...w-dynamic-brake.html
If you don't want to wait for a GG-1, we have these in stock and ready to ship TODAY!
Originally Posted by Walter Matuch:
Since container is coming land bridge, it is expected to actually pass RMT offices on a NS container train in the next few days.
Whee! Now that's the way to travel! 
Mitch
Originally Posted by Charlienassau:
http://www.nassauhobby.com/XC4...w-dynamic-brake.html
If you don't want to wait for a GG-1, we have these in stock and ready to ship TODAY!
Problem is, the one I ordered is already paid for. Part of the STO program. Can't afford two.
Originally Posted by gunrunnerjohn:
Lee, such a deal I have for you.
I have a Williams scale GG-1 that I was going to convert to TMCC. Since I found the JLC GG-1 at York at an attractive price, this one is no longer in the queue for conversion.
Tell you what...I bought both a green and a brown Williams "scale" PRR GG1...and they are probably the best $150-$225ea. I ever spent!
If i could do it all over again, I would have bought 100% Williams and upgraded all with ERR TMCC upgrades.
Problem is, the one I ordered is already paid for. Part of the STO program. Can't afford two. Bob Severin
Wait a second, you paid in full and advance for something that is not in stock?
Originally Posted by Charlienassau:
Problem is, the one I ordered is already paid for. Part of the STO program. Can't afford two. Bob Severin
Wait a second, you paid in full and advance for something that is not in stock?
Unbeknownst to me, at the time, I gave my credit card number (policy), thinking the item would not be charged until shipped. I was wrong, the card was charged immediately. When asked, I was informed that the policy to charge immediatley would guarantee me a unit when they are shipped.
Originally Posted by Bob Severin:
Originally Posted by Charlienassau:
Problem is, the one I ordered is already paid for. Part of the STO program. Can't afford two. Bob Severin
Wait a second, you paid in full and advance for something that is not in stock?
Unbeknownst to me, at the time, I gave my credit card number (policy), thinking the item would not be charged until shipped. I was wrong, the card was charged immediately. When asked, I was informed that the policy to charge immediatley would guarantee me a unit when they are shipped.
Before this goes into a bash of paying in full before something is in stock, don't think this is isolated to trains. I've had instances in the musical instrument world where this is quite common. In some cases, it's paying in full before it gets made, to insure you have it when it does get made.
If it's a case where it's a preorder and is not in stock, you would pay in full and if it doesn't get produced, you're refunded your money.
There are countless stories on the internet of people losing their investment entirely. A recent example would be people who paid in full for pre-orders to Jassons Train most recently. (The ogr threads on this have been deleted).
Proceed with caution!
I was actually wondering myself when our orders would come in. I'm looking forward to my GG1!
RMT seems to be a reputable company, so I'm not concerned. I expect that when I preorder/backorder, payment will be taken immediately to ensure that I will get one.
RMT seems to be a reputable company, so I'm not concerned. I expect that when I preorder/backorder, payment will be taken immediately to ensure that I will get one.
I too ordered 2 0-31 remote switches. I also did not realize that my credit card would be processed with an estimate shipping charge included long before they would be shipped. I thought they were in stock. Well, if not received I will advise credit card people. Although the $ 220.00 charged me would have come in handy to buy some Lionel switches actually in stock.
Before this goes into a bash of paying in full before something is in stock, don't think this is isolated to trains. I've had instances in the musical instrument world where this is quite common. In some cases, it's paying in full before it gets made, to insure you have it when it does get made.
If it's a case where it's a preorder and is not in stock, you would pay in full and if it doesn't get produced, you're refunded your money.
Eddie, if you are refering to "custom made" musical instruments I agree. No one wants to get stuck with something special made. But we are talking about off the shelf items. We, as a business would never ask for payment in full BEFORE an item is made. We do custom runs and have to lay out money but I would never ask my customers to share that burden. This is just OUR policy and I am not passing judgement. We are all grown up and make our own decsions.
Charlie,
"People in glass houses..."
I haven't found the perfect train store yet, but RMT does a pretty good job for their customers!
Ed
What is generally described here can be a way (not necessarily THE way) to provide working capital for a company.
Let's use an example: I make golf clubs. I decide to make a putter I have previously sold tot the public. it sold well, and was well received. I have a contractor make them at $15 each. I sell them at $45 each. The contractor is ready to produce more and gives me a deadline to submit my order. I let my customers know that Wonder Putter is available again. If you want one order it now. I let folks know that I will charge you now, but it will ensure you get a putter when it comes in. And I disclose that they should arrive in 3 months.
So, people order and pay. Let's say 50 people pre-order by the deadline at $45 each. That is $2,250 I have to use towards whatever. Well, I know I need to pay for 50 putters, but at $15 cost/ea., that means I have to pay the manufacturer $750. Let's say I order another 25 knowing some customers will wait and not order until I let everyone know they are in stock (another $375). So in total I owe the manufacturer $1,125 for 75 ordered putters. But I still have $1,125 from the pre-orders. I can use that $$ to fund something else in the business.
In effect, it is an innovative means to get financing without having to go to a bank, a finance company, or some other source of funding (including the manufacturer).
If you are comfortable with the retailer, should be OK. If not, you have 2 billing cycles after the transaction to dispute with your credit card company (2 billing cycle is a federal law), assuming you have pursued remedy with the seller.
So, I am not suggesting anything here, not saying folks should be in/out of doing STO transactions. As Charlie points out, we are big folks here, so we just need to do what is most comfortable.
But I thought explaining by example might help folks understand how some small businesses may operate. Is any of this applicable to any sellers here? Do not know, do not care, and none of my business. Just explaining A possible reason (not THE reason) some may see this type of transaction in their travels throughout the internet.
Originally Posted by cooperthebeagle:
What is generally described here can be a way (not necessarily THE way) to provide working capital for a company.
Let's use an example: I make golf clubs. I decide to make a putter I have previously sold tot the public. it sold well, and was well received. I have a contractor make them at $15 each. I sell them at $45 each. The contractor is ready to produce more and gives me a deadline to submit my order. I let my customers know that Wonder Putter is available again. If you want one order it now. I let folks know that I will charge you now, but it will ensure you get a putter when it comes in. And I disclose that they should arrive in 3 months.
So, people order and pay. Let's say 50 people pre-order by the deadline at $45 each. That is $2,250 I have to use towards whatever. Well, I know I need to pay for 50 putters, but at $15 cost/ea., that means I have to pay the manufacturer $750. Let's say I order another 25 knowing some customers will wait and not order until I let everyone know they are in stock (another $375). So in total I owe the manufacturer $1,125 for 75 ordered putters. But I still have $1,125 from the pre-orders. I can use that $$ to fund something else in the business.
In effect, it is an innovative means to get financing without having to go to a bank, a finance company, or some other source of funding (including the manufacturer).
If you are comfortable with the retailer, should be OK. If not, you have 2 billing cycles after the transaction to dispute with your credit card company (2 billing cycle is a federal law), assuming you have pursued remedy with the seller.
So, I am not suggesting anything here, not saying folks should be in/out of doing STO transactions. As Charlie points out, we are big folks here, so we just need to do what is most comfortable.
But I thought explaining by example might help folks understand how some small businesses may operate. Is any of this applicable to any sellers here? Do not know, do not care, and none of my business. Just explaining A possible reason (not THE reason) some may see this type of transaction in their travels throughout the internet.
Seriously? This is an AWEFULL business model.
What happens when your manufacturer goes bankrupt? You are now out all of the money that your customers pre-paid for your "guaranteed" product. So you have spent the money to manufacture a product that is not going to be produced, but also the profit on another project and now you have nothing to refund your customers. So now you have no money, no customers and have lost your reputation in your business.
Good business plan!
Originally Posted by cooperthebeagle:
What is generally described here can be a way (not necessarily THE way) to provide working capital for a company.
Let's use an example: I make golf clubs. I decide to make a putter I have previously sold tot the public. it sold well, and was well received. I have a contractor make them at $15 each. I sell them at $45 each. The contractor is ready to produce more and gives me a deadline to submit my order. I let my customers know that Wonder Putter is available again. If you want one order it now. I let folks know that I will charge you now, but it will ensure you get a putter when it comes in. And I disclose that they should arrive in 3 months.
So, people order and pay. Let's say 50 people pre-order by the deadline at $45 each. That is $2,250 I have to use towards whatever. Well, I know I need to pay for 50 putters, but at $15 cost/ea., that means I have to pay the manufacturer $750. Let's say I order another 25 knowing some customers will wait and not order until I let everyone know they are in stock (another $375). So in total I owe the manufacturer $1,125 for 75 ordered putters. But I still have $1,125 from the pre-orders. I can use that $$ to fund something else in the business.
In effect, it is an innovative means to get financing without having to go to a bank, a finance company, or some other source of funding (including the manufacturer).
If you are comfortable with the retailer, should be OK. If not, you have 2 billing cycles after the transaction to dispute with your credit card company (2 billing cycle is a federal law), assuming you have pursued remedy with the seller.
So, I am not suggesting anything here, not saying folks should be in/out of doing STO transactions. As Charlie points out, we are big folks here, so we just need to do what is most comfortable.
But I thought explaining by example might help folks understand how some small businesses may operate. Is any of this applicable to any sellers here? Do not know, do not care, and none of my business. Just explaining A possible reason (not THE reason) some may see this type of transaction in their travels throughout the internet.
Good analogy. The difference in this instance was that, I didn't know about the pre-charge. I was not given an option. Perhaps it may have been a factor on my decision to order, or not to order. I think policies need to be disclosed up front to the prospective consumer.
Originally Posted by Bob Severin:
Good analogy. The difference in this instance was that, I didn't know about the pre-charge. I was not given an option. Perhaps it may have been a factor on my decision to order, or not to order. I think policies need to be disclosed up front to the prospective consumer.
H'm. Are you on RMT's mailing list? They make the STO policy quite clear in their mailings, and I knew about the STO when I ordered my GG-1...
Mitch
Eddiem,
There may not be a perfect train store, but Nassau Hobby comes pretty close. They are the only store that I have seen that states a "30 day money back guarantee" in their advertisements. They have good prices, great selection and great service. They are also an OGR forum sponsor and Charlie goes out of his way to keep everyone informed on what's shipping. In a nutshell, from the way they conduct their business, they want your business.
I have been dealing with them for over 9 years and never had a problem.
Erol Gurcan
Remember, it is my description, not necessarily what the case is here. And this model of leverage happens all of the time.
Do you have a bank account?
Do you put money in the bank?
Guess what - the bank only has to hold about 3% of cash relative to all of the bank customers' deposits. They may hold more, but the regulatory limit is fairly low.
What happens if everyone runs to the bank and demands their account funds at the same time? [The latter, by the way, is what 99% of the time makes a bank fail - a run on the bank]
So you already subscribe to a similar model of operation. Banks operate on the full faith of the customer base. I think we can assume any business does too, at some level.
I was aware of the STO policy of paying up front as I read this on RMT's web site and in the emails Walt sends out. The disclosures are there and it really becomes a choice of whether you want the item or not. I personally think RMT products are some of the nicest out there. The fact that they are relatively inexpensive is a plus. And I had I placed an order, I know I have the bank where my credit card is issued backing me. Walt knows that too, so he is going to do everything he can to make folks happy.
I am giving you my opinion and have no skin in this game, but I think we should perhaps leave it at: buy RMT products. They are a sponsor. Just be aware that if not in stock, you need to read the fine print (or just e-mail Walt) to understand when you should expect to be charged and when the item should arrive from China.
A phone call or e-mail will go along way to ensure all are happy.
And of course you can always buy something else (Lionel, Williams, MTH, etc.) from Charlie or any other sponsor.
Originally Posted by Trainguy4014:
Seriously? This is an AWEFULL business model.
What happens when your manufacturer goes bankrupt? You are now out all of the money that your customers pre-paid for your "guaranteed" product. So you have spent the money to manufacture a product that is not going to be produced, but also the profit on another project and now you have nothing to refund your customers. So now you have no money, no customers and have lost your reputation in your business.
Good business plan!
Originally Posted by Walter Matuch:
First RMT container scheduled to arrive 12-22 and it is loaded with STO stuff to ship.
Everything on it is STO.
Since container is coming land bridge, it is expected to actually pass RMT offices on a NS container train in the next few days.
Thanks.
Walter/RMT
How's that coming along, Walt?
Mitch
(eagerly awaiting his shiny new GG-1)
Rather then crusify RMT on the net, why not give Walter a phone call, he is very nice to speak to. Blame the manuf. or the shippers, but we all order things and have to wait, there was a time when you had to order cars and not walk into the dealers lot to pick one up. What is lionel,doing now?
I have talked with Walter both though phone calls and email he can only ship something when he gets it and being a small company the manufactures/shippers put him on the bottom of the to do list. His hands are normally tied as to when they actually come in. if you remember last summer he went a long stretch with nothing in the store to sell as he was waiting for his paid orders to be made/shipped to him.
Originally Posted by locolawyer:
Eddiem,
There may not be a perfect train store, but Nassau Hobby comes pretty close. They are the only store that I have seen that states a "30 day money back guarantee" in their advertisements. They have good prices, great selection and great service. They are also an OGR forum sponsor and Charlie goes out of his way to keep everyone informed on what's shipping. In a nutshell, from the way they conduct their business, they want your business.
I have been dealing with them for over 9 years and never had a problem.
Erol Gurcan
This may be true, and I am also sympathetic to the original poster's situation. However, one way to make yourself, or your business, look really questionable in my eyes to take cheap shots when the opportunity presents itself. You don't make yourself look good or the other guy look worse. Rather, the cloud that may be associated with the original vendor now extends to the one taking the cheap shots. Just my .02.
Cooper's model, btw, is how many businesses operate. Banks are a great example. The only reason we don't have retail bank runs anymore is because of FDIC insurance -- essentially a full faith and credit guarantee of your deposit to the limits of the guarantee (and even further in the right situation, as we saw in 2007-2009). FDIC insurance essentially permits banks to use customer cash deposits in their proprietary activities. Nothing wrong with that, it's just the reality of retail banking.
Ease up folks. Nassau and RMT are both assets to the hobby. Walter brought back stuff that would probably not be available to us, if he bailed on the business and I've heard nothing but praise for Nassau. We've all missed and been annoyed by fine print, but since at least Thanksgiving STO has been described on the RMT Home page. Most of us know full well the price point plays a key factor, in buying RMT trains, so I wouldn't be suprised that they need the cash flow to sustain a very niche business. (the fact that he actually makes a cool looking Navy caboose, and folks love seeing passengers in my passenger cars, and that a Newport USN Beep is imminent, might also affect my purchases). Personally, I'm waiting for in stock, to be the status, on the things I hope to purchase, this year. But thats manly because Im fickle and might use the money elsewhere, before it arrives.
All the CONDUCTORS CLUB Amtrak car sets have been packed and will ship tomorrow/Monday. These are the oldest orders so they go out first.
The remaing RMT products in that first container are STO items that will ship this week also. Nearly 1000 orders are on the packing line.
Been working all weekend to pack orders.
I appreciate all the patience and support from RMT customers.
Thanks.
Walter/RMT
Walter is a nice guy but I would never pay in advance for any item. A small down payment, yes but paying in full, NO.
I think it is NUTS to pay for trains with up front money.Come on man.Well "then we take a chance on not getting it"Boo Hoo...So what?Buy what is available and be glad you are fortunate enough to have that much.Nick
Oh good lord folks, you sound like you think you're dealing with General Motors. What part of tiny, Mom and Pop operations trying to operate in a miniscule market don't you understand?
I have a 1945 1.5 ton commercial Flatbed. Its a labor of love for me. Do you know how hard it is to get certain cast Iron parts for such vehicles? Certain runs of a few hundred of an item, say a wheel cylinder or frame horn, have to be ordered and paid for in advance to get them made, much less marketed. Suppliers that can't deliver or cannot be trusted soon die.
The o-gauge market for individual items is not much if any bigger. Its a **** miracle we've got as much product as we have!
I agree I would feel better with the product in stock before I pay. In that type of sales model who ever pays first gets their product when it arrives but if the cash flow or sales drop you will wait forever till enough upfront orders can be paid for or their is enough to make the next run.. There is enough items in stock for me to choose from..Good luck to all.
Originally Posted by Redman440:
I agree I would feel better with the product in stock before I pay. In that type of sales model who ever pays first gets their product when it arrives but if the cash flow or sales drop you will wait forever till enough upfront orders can be paid for or their is enough to make the next run.. There is enough items in stock for me to choose from..Good luck to all.
I'm certainly going to be more careful in the future. I'm still waiting for those two GG1s I ordered. No idea when they come in, but actually I don't need them any more.
Originally Posted by Lee Willis:
Originally Posted by Redman440:
I agree I would feel better with the product in stock before I pay. In that type of sales model who ever pays first gets their product when it arrives but if the cash flow or sales drop you will wait forever till enough upfront orders can be paid for or their is enough to make the next run.. There is enough items in stock for me to choose from..Good luck to all.
I'm certainly going to be more careful in the future. I'm still waiting for those two GG1s I ordered. No idea when they come in, but actually I don't need them any more.
You're in the same boat as I am Lee; I'm still waiting for a few packs of Bepeople and I no longer have anyplace for them. No idea when they might arrive, but I suspect they'll end up here at a discount.
217 packages shipped today.
Emails with tracking numbers have been sent.
Walter/RMT
Originally Posted by Drydock:
Oh good lord folks, you sound like you think you're dealing with General Motors. What part of tiny, Mom and Pop operations trying to operate in a miniscule market don't you understand?
I have a 1945 1.5 ton commercial Flatbed. Its a labor of love for me. Do you know how hard it is to get certain cast Iron parts for such vehicles? Certain runs of a few hundred of an item, say a wheel cylinder or frame horn, have to be ordered and paid for in advance to get them made, much less marketed. Suppliers that can't deliver or cannot be trusted soon die.
The o-gauge market for individual items is not much if any bigger. Its a **** miracle we've got as much product as we have!
Well if you want you can pay in full but I do not under any circumstance will pay in full for anything.
I refuse to put front money up for anybody's business. Make the product, deliver it and if I like it, and only then I will pay for it.
I just got notification that my GG1 has shipped out, along with its tracking number. Waiting two months really was not an issue for me, but now that I know where it is, I am eagerly anticipating its arrival.
Originally Posted by Walter Matuch:
217 packages shipped today.
Emails with tracking numbers have been sent.
Walter/RMT
Groovy! Hope to get my email soon! 
Mitch
