Ross switches - take the plunge?

Many years ago I was like you are today. I used all O22s with Hirth 100mph switches. Then a Friend was building a layout designed by Steve B. (at Ross Custom, although at the time it was not Ross Custom.) I scoffed! Why use anything but good ol' Lionel track and switches excepting the Hirths?

I loved those 022s. I used to take them apart and refurbish the broken ones I found and bought at the shows.

When my friend's Layout was completed, I came to the easy conclusion that the only thing lacking in my layout was the 022s and the Hirths.

I redesigned my layout using nothing but Ross Custom switched and never looked back!

Kevin, I'd go with O72 minimum if you possibly can. I'll bet others are gonna' suggest the same.

ON EDIT: Yes, of course Ross! I'd go with DZ1000 switch machines because above the deck so maintenance will be a snap (I'm growing to really dislike under-table tasks).

Oh! And most important I can't wait to vicariously experience your GIGANTIC Tweak!  

I had an O27 and then O31 layout, you will NOT be sorry going to wider curves.  I also recommend the O72 as a minimum, my new under construction layout will feature O72, O84, and O96 (or thereabout, it's mostly flex track).  I want to be able to run all that big iron I have on my shelves!

IMHO Ross is the best. Best quality. Best variety. Made in the USA. 

I run everything from traditional to the latest and greatest diesels and steamers and all work flawlessly on Ross. I’ll second the comments to go as big as you can on the size of the curves. Now that you are hooked on the modern stuff look out!!!

Enjoy your project!

AlanRail posted:

Many years ago I was like you are today. I used all O22s with Hirth 100mph switches. Then a Friend was building a layout designed by Steve B. (at Ross Custom, although at the time it was not Ross Custom.) I scoffed! Why use anything but good ol' Lionel track and switches excepting the Hirths?

I loved those 022s. I used to take them apart and refurbish the broken ones I found and bought at the shows.

When my friend's Layout was completed, I came to the easy conclusion that the only thing lacking in my layout was the 022s and the Hirths.

I redesigned my layout using nothing but Ross Custom switched and never looked back!

That is a strong endorsement for making this change, Alan. Thanks for that. Did you end up buying them new?

geysergazer posted:

Kevin, I'd go with O72 minimum if you possibly can. I'll bet others are gonna' suggest the same.

ON EDIT: Yes, of course Ross! I'd go with DZ1000 switch machines because above the deck so maintenance will be a snap (I'm growing to really dislike under-table tasks).

 

I possibly can go O72 but worry how much surface are I’m going to give up on the process. With a dog bone, options are limited. 

geysergazer posted:

Oh! And most important I can't wait to vicariously experience your GIGANTIC Tweak!  

Will be an adventure, as this whole process has been. Will definitely report on my progress!

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I had an O27 and then O31 layout, you will NOT be sorry going to wider curves.  I also recommend the O72 as a minimum, my new under construction layout will feature O72, O84, and O96 (or thereabout, it's mostly flex track).  I want to be able to run all that big iron I have on my shelves!

Thanks, John. I can imagine having some longer passenger cars will be nice. Any thoughts on whether my current 022c’s and UCS controllers can work with Ross/GG?

bigtruckpete posted:

IMHO Ross is the best. Best quality. Best variety. Made in the USA. 

I run everything from traditional to the latest and greatest diesels and steamers and all work flawlessly on Ross. I’ll second the comments to go as big as you can on the size of the curves. Now that you are hooked on the modern stuff look out!!!

Enjoy your project!

Thanks, Pete. That’s a strong endorsement too.  Appreciate it. 

As others have said, Gargraves (oops, edit: Ross) switches are the best.  (Thanks to Tom Tee for noticing my mistake.)

I would strongly advise against using Gargraves uncoupler sections.  The elongated magnets in these are quite a bit higher than the center rail and some modern era cars will not uncouple over them since the armature can't be pulled down far enough to open the knuckle.  Lionel O27 uncoupling tracks are a match for the height of Gargraves track and there are transition pins from O27 to Gargraves that make them easy to use.

My top level is all GG and Ross.  You will not go wrong with Ross. 

Even when  I build a small 3 rail layout I still use 072 switches.  The smaller switches can have problems with some equipment.  Just because your train can handle  a smaller diameter curve does not necessarily mean the train can handle that same size switch. 

Consider using a minimum 072 switch so as to make future purchases less problematic.

Bob, did you have a typo above in your GG switch comment?

Another strong endorsement for Ross turnouts. Between my 2 home layouts over the past years, I have purchased 25 of them - 1 problem with a switch machine, which Steve immediately replaced. Great person to work with.

Go for it.

Bob posted:

As others have said, Gargraves switches are the best.  I would strongly advise against using Gargraves uncoupler sections.  The elongated magnets in these are quite a bit higher than the center rail and some modern era cars will not uncouple over them since the armature can't be pulled down far enough to open the knuckle.  Lionel O27 uncoupling tracks are a match for the height of Gargraves track and there are transition pins from O27 to Gargraves that make them easy to use.

Thanks Bob. I love the idea of using 6019s as that will enable me to reuse the UCS controllers I painstakingly rewired. Plus the GG uncouple/unload sections are pricey!

Tom Tee posted:

My top level is all GG and Ross.  You will not go wrong with Ross. 

Even when  I build a small 3 rail layout I still use 072 switches.  The smaller switches can have problems with some equipment.  Just because your train can handle  a smaller diameter curve does not necessarily mean the train can handle that same size switch. 

Consider using a minimum 072 switch so as to make future purchases less problematic.

 

Bob, did you have a typo above in your GG switch comment?

Thanks Tom. It’s pretty unanimous that I should go O72 - now just have to figure out how to make the 2 districts link up like they do now. It’s a daunting proposition!

zoradt posted:

Another strong endorsement for Ross turnouts. Between my 2 home layouts over the past years, I have purchased 25 of them - 1 problem with a switch machine, which Steve immediately replaced. Great person to work with.

Go for it.

Thank you Jim. I appreciate it. 

You have read the features making Ross switches the best.  Pick out areas of your layout to work on and buy a couple qwiches at a time. get them in and working, then buy more.  Fortunately I only need about a half dozen for my basic plan.

When I was in 3 rail I used Ross switches with GG track and some GG switches. Once I had the kinks worked out of the GG switches they worked about 98% of the time. The Ross switches worked 100% of the time and I don’t believe I had a single derailment on those switches that weren’t caused by (operator error) me. Ross switches are a great product. They are worth every penny. 

CoastsideKevin posted:

geysergazer posted:

Kevin, I'd go with O72 minimum if you possibly can. I'll bet others are gonna' suggest the same.

ON EDIT: Yes, of course Ross! I'd go with DZ1000 switch machines because above the deck so maintenance will be a snap (I'm growing to really dislike under-table tasks).

 

I possibly can go O72 but worry how much surface are I’m going to give up on the process. With a dog bone, options are limited. 

Kevin, 

Go with the 072 - whatever surface space you may have to give up - will more than rewarded by the advantages of having the 072.  Heck, we don't want to do another layout revision down the line - do we???

Mark Boyce posted:

You have read the features making Ross switches the best.  Pick out areas of your layout to work on and buy a couple qwiches at a time. get them in and working, then buy more.  Fortunately I only need about a half dozen for my basic plan.

Good idea, Mark. I just assumed I would do it all at once, but yours sounds like a more reasonable option. 

Hudson J1e posted:

When I was in 3 rail I used Ross switches with GG track and some GG switches. Once I had the kinks worked out of the GG switches they worked about 98% of the time. The Ross switches worked 100% of the time and I don’t believe I had a single derailment on those switches that weren’t caused by (operator error) me. Ross switches are a great product. They are worth every penny. 

Thanks Phil. Great to know!

CoastsideKevin posted:

Mark Boyce posted:

You have read the features making Ross switches the best.  Pick out areas of your layout to work on and buy a couple qwiches at a time. get them in and working, then buy more.  Fortunately I only need about a half dozen for my basic plan.

Good idea, Mark. I just assumed I would do it all at once, but yours sounds like a more reasonable option. 

I'm glad you like the suggestion Kevin!  I couldn't afford it any other way! 

SURFLINER posted:

CoastsideKevin posted:

geysergazer posted:

Kevin, I'd go with O72 minimum if you possibly can. I'll bet others are gonna' suggest the same.

ON EDIT: Yes, of course Ross! I'd go with DZ1000 switch machines because above the deck so maintenance will be a snap (I'm growing to really dislike under-table tasks).

 

I possibly can go O72 but worry how much surface are I’m going to give up on the process. With a dog bone, options are limited. 

Kevin, 

Go with the 072 - whatever surface space you may have to give up - will more than rewarded by the advantages of having the 072.  Heck, we don't want to do another layout revision down the line - do we???

Ha, no, we sure wouldn’t want that! I’m guessing once will be enough. 

Oh yes, use the DZ 1000 for alternate finger tip control.  DZ 2500 for Lionel control (but no manual option).

While I have both Gargraves and Ross track and switches on my layout; on quality and appearance I'd give the edge to Ross.  They are excellent. Of the two Ross has been less problematic but the layout has many switches and they all work. If I were starting from scratch today I would bear the higher cost and go with Ross. 

I gave up on Gargraves long ago.  Any switch in which I need to fiddle with to get to work right is not worth having.  My Ross have been flawless.  Perfect in fact.  Only issues have been the Zstuff switch machines, whether the 1000 or the 2500.

Another vote for Ross switches! In addition to being 100% reliable, the variety of options available is amazing. 4 way, 3 way, double slip, double cross, curved switches, etc, etc. The list goes on and on.

John

You’ve got a lot of switches to swap out. You could consider manual throws to some of them to speed up the process of installing them. Then go back and add the automated DZ-1000. I did that for my previous layout. 

As with a lot of things, this hobby, there is much to be had on the secondary market.  My friend, Tom's layout was done with Gargraves track, both, Gargraves and Ross switches.  DZ 1000 switch control motors, with added wiring for non-de-rail.   Picture shows a pair of Ross, and a pair of Gargraves switches.    Everything pictured was secondary market. 

Older Ross switches had an issue with the throw-bars deteriorating. Ross had a program to replace the bars.  I've done a few, throw bar changes, on the Fort Pitt Highrailer's modules with the switches in place.  A time consuming project. 

Manual throws.  Available from several OGR advertising vendors. 

Good morning, I have used Ross Switch’s and Gargraves products ever since I seen them at Mr Jim Sutter’s Train Shop in Homer City PA.

As everyone else mentioned above, great products and great service.

Another item to consider when  you call Ross, they have the product on the shelf.

Their not waiting for a shipping container to come across the pond with the track and switch’s you need to finish your layout.

Forget the Gargraves uncoupling tracks, for a truly hidden uncoupler, take a look at this.

Hiding the Uncoupling Magnet in Your Yard Tracks

Kevin, now is also a good time to think about what you enjoy about your layout, including its operation. I was at a similar place as you a couple years ago. I had a 36’x16’ Fastrack layout with relatively small curves and lots of switches. I was tired of the noise from the Fastrack and decided to rip it all out. Like the good advice your getting, I was told to go to bigger curves, which I did. I also realized I really didn’t enjoy the switching aspect of the layout that much. So, when I did my redesign, I took a lot of them out and simplified the design. That also made the cost of the redesign a little easier to swallow. Of course, if you really enjoy the switching aspect of your layout, this isn’t an option. Just something to think about. 

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Forget the Gargraves uncoupling tracks, for a truly hidden uncoupler, take a look at this.

Hiding the Uncoupling Magnet in Your Yard Tracks

Glad to see you posted that thread, GRJ--it's a terrific hack for an uncoupling track that is virtually invisible and costs only a few bucks.

Others have followed the process shown in your link, but cut short the project once the magnet assembly has been removed from the 6019 track and simply inserted it in a section of GarGraves track once some room is created with the removal of a small section of the center rail and cross ties adjusted accordingly.  That  was the approach I took and it worked just fine.

Tom Tee posted:

Oh yes, use the DZ 1000 for alternate finger tip control.  DZ 2500 for Lionel control (but no manual option).

Hi Tom - so that means the 022c will work to control the DZ2500, but not the DZ1000?

Dennis LaGrua posted:

While I have both Gargraves and Ross track and switches on my layout; on quality and appearance I'd give the edge to Ross.  They are excellent. Of the two Ross has been less problematic but the layout has many switches and they all work. If I were starting from scratch today I would bear the higher cost and go with Ross. 

Thanks, Dennis. Another vote for Ross!

superwarp1 posted:

I gave up on Gargraves long ago.  Any switch in which I need to fiddle with to get to work right is not worth having.  My Ross have been flawless.  Perfect in fact.  Only issues have been the Zstuff switch machines, whether the 1000 or the 2500.

 

Interesting, Gary. Thanks. Someone else posted that since Ross partners with ZStuff, they are good about warranty service.

tr18 posted:

Another vote for Ross switches! In addition to being 100% reliable, the variety of options available is amazing. 4 way, 3 way, double slip, double cross, curved switches, etc, etc. The list goes on and on.

John

Good point, John. I may need to get very creative in my redesign.

ChiTown Steve posted:

You’ve got a lot of switches to swap out. You could consider manual throws to some of them to speed up the process of installing them. Then go back and add the automated DZ-1000. I did that for my previous layout. 

That's a great idea, especially the ones I can easily reach. Thanks!

Mike CT posted:

As with a lot of things, this hobby, there is much to be had on the secondary market.  My friend, Tom's layout was done with Gargraves track, both, Gargraves and Ross switches.  DZ 1000 switch control motors, with added wiring for non-de-rail.   Picture shows a pair of Ross, and a pair of Gargraves switches.    Everything pictured was secondary market. 

Older Ross switches had an issue with the throw-bars deteriorating. Ross had a program to replace the bars.  I've done a few, throw bar changes, on the Fort Pitt Highrailer's modules with the switches in place.  A time consuming project. 

Manual throws.  Available from several OGR advertising vendors. 

All great and helpful information, Mike. Thank you.