Sad tale - model trains versus video games

I have liked doing the same things since I was a kid, I am 57 now. I am an old metalhead, been playing guitar since 1981. I have had some sort of layout since 1970. Sure at times I put other interests ahead of them but they were always waiting for me. During my highschool years I do not remember more than 3-4 kids that were active model railroaders. The older generation kept a bit of distance between themselves, their trains, and the teen modelers. We probably scared them with our long hair. 😜

On the tmcc sub forum Ryan has been integrating Alexa with tmcc. I can see a time in the near future where you could merge something like trainsim with your layout. The kids that like trains (but do not show it) may just surprise us yet.

I would have to echo what has been said previously - your hobby is your hobby and you do it primarily for you.  If others find it interesting that's fine but, given all of the things that are out there for someone to turn into a hobby, it really shouldn't come as a surprise when someone close to you decides to chase other things.

  In my family I was the only one interested in trains and with one exception in one neighborhood where I lived (we moved a lot) I was the only kid I knew who had any interest.  The interest has never faded and I doubt it ever will. 

  As for my son - no interest whatsoever.  What I have done is make sure I have an inventory of what I have so that when the time comes he will know how to dispose of the trains and get some money from them.  This doesn't bother me - I have had endless hours of fun with the trains and everyone of them brings back a memory of a time, a place, a person, or an event. However, once I'm gone they will revert to what they really are - a semi-random collection of items of no particular importance.

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

I don't know enough about video games to know whether what I am about to say is possible.

Is there a way to combine a child's interest in video games with an adult's interest in model railroading?

Maybe the young among us can answer that question. Arnold

I'd say no. Sure there are simulation railroad games, even some that are "sandbox" games but it really doesn't give you the same feeling of running your own railroad. Think of smelling the smoke, versus having your face close to the TV. There is only so much games can do. Yes you can probably build a big empire in a game, but why not do it in real life?

Arnold, I have played a number of video games since I was a child. And let me tell you something every adult has uttered since the beginning of time, "ain't nothing like getting outdoors or out in the world." The hobby provides some realism that a video game just can't give even a cents worth. If they were able, we'd be hooked up to them 24/7.

What hooked my attention with my dads train set was that he used it with me like he used it as an 8 year old when new.  His berkshire set was beat. chips, dings and hacked repairs abound. It was a seasonal holiday event to set up dads old train set on the ping pong table or floor, anywhere there was space.  Repairing worn tube track, rewiring and paper clipping  damaged couplers back together was the norm. Getting cuts from sharp track, sparks from derailments and white smoke from the occasional ZW induced fire added a sense of danger and I loved it! To make things more interesting we would set up cowboys, Indians and army men on any flat surface on the train an do trick shots with homemade rubber band guns as the train whizzed by at unrealistic speeds.  Inevitably the train would jump the tracks from excessive speed or a rubber band on the track, but It was all good just reset and push the throttle. It was a blast and when the holidays were over the train was packed way until next year.  We used it as a toy and it was awesome.  I absolutely appreciate the detailed layouts, collecting and lure of pristine examples, but to a kid nothing beats pure mayhem.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

I'd say no. Sure there are simulation railroad games, even some that are "sandbox" games but it really doesn't give you the same feeling of running your own railroad. Think of smelling the smoke, versus having your face close to the TV. There is only so much games can do. Yes you can probably build a big empire in a game, but why not do it in real life?

Arnold, I have played a number of video games since I was a child. And let me tell you something every adult has uttered since the beginning of time, "ain't nothing like getting outdoors or out in the world." The hobby provides some realism that a video game just can't give even a cents worth. If they were able, we'd be hooked up to them 24/7.

Dave, there is much merit to what you say.

I have a couple of questions.

Is it possible that a young model railroader can enjoy building and running his real model railroad, and then make video games by making videos of his real model trains running on his real model railroad?

Or, is the answer No, because it is impossible or impractical to do that?

Arnold

@StrapHanger posted:

What hooked my attention with my dads train set was that he used it with me like he used it as an 8 year old when new.  His berkshire set was beat. chips, dings and hacked repairs abound. It was a seasonal holiday event to set up dads old train set on the ping pong table or floor, anywhere there was space.  Repairing worn tube track, rewiring and paper clipping  damaged couplers back together was the norm. Getting cuts from sharp track, sparks from derailments and white smoke from the occasional ZW induced fire added a sense of danger and I loved it! To make things more interesting we would set up cowboys, Indians and army men on any flat surface on the train an do trick shots with homemade rubber band guns as the train whizzed by at unrealistic speeds.  Inevitably the train would jump the tracks from excessive speed or a rubber band on the track, but It was all good just reset and push the throttle. It was a blast and when the holidays were over the train was packed way until next year.  We used it as a toy and it was awesome.  I absolutely appreciate the detailed layouts, collecting and lure of pristine examples, but to a kid nothing beats pure mayhem.

So true, StrapHanger.

I’ve read everyone’s comments with interest and would like to add my spin on this. I have been playing with trains since 1954! I have three grown girls, who all have their own trains bought by me. They were never real train hobbyists but always enjoyed going to train meets when young and looked forward to receiving a train item at Christmas or birthday to this day. I have been recently blessed with a grandson and granddaughter. Theo is a diehard train fan and Winnie is becoming one. Theo at 11/2 learned to use the LionChief controller, now at 21/2 he uses it with skill, uncoupling and coupling freight cars with ease. I’m now introducing him to the phone app for running the trains. Now the issue, I have post-war, MPC, TMCC, Proto-1, 2, and 3 that I want to give to my children and grandchildren but no one wants them. Why? Because of the different operating systems. They all ask the same question, why can’t they all be run with the LionChief controller? And you know what, they’re right! Someone out there, be it Lionel or one of the forum members working on this or a MTH spin-off, needs to address this in a timely manner. There are hundreds of stories on this forum alone on how LionChief has ignited interest in trains again, by a tech savvy generation.

I want to be able to give all my trains away to family members near and far but they have to want to accept them. Non-hobbyists don’t want trains they don’t know how to use. I know, you’re all thinking just sell your existing trains and buy all new but why should I have to? There are many pieces in my collection that have sentimental value that I want passed to specific people, why can’t this be kept intact?

Yes, I could buy kits to convert to TMCC but outside the hobbyist TMCC isn’t really an option, it is too complicated for a novice and the conversion cost is too high. Remember, I’m giving these trains away.

LionChief, through their controller and phone app have created a simple operating system that can make old toy trains relevant in a world we’re your phone is your lifeline to the world. If I could modify an engine to run on LionChief’s Bluetooth system for less than $80 I would convert everything I own. Why do I have to go through a parts catalog to get the components I need? It continues to be a mystery to me why Lionel is so narrow minded when it comes to making their operating systems backwards compatible.

I want to feel confident my trains will continue to be enjoyed long after I’m gone. We can do nothing and lament our hobby is disappearing or we can pressure the main suppliers out there to wake up! Simple modern electronics can and need to be made available for making older trains relevant and at a decent price point!! If not, to my disappointment, this hobby will quickly disappear.

 I am almost 70 yrs old, every Christmas when I run trains around the tree for the family I think of my grandfather who did that for me. Don’t we all want our trains running 70 yrs in the future with someone remembering us? 

I've always loved trains.  My 1st set was from my grandpa, also a big train nut.  Been in a couple scales.  I've got 6 siblings, and only one has started to get into trains himself recently.  In fact he (late 20's), his son (4), and I (early 40's) went together and chased 4014 on her 1st run to Utah.  I'm finishing my layout up, I built it for me, but included a couple things that my sons might like or that they requested.  My oldest (16) has a few train sets, but not really interested in running anything at all.  The youngest (5) might watch, but really has other interests.  My middle kid (7) has the most interest.  He'll ask to run trains, and I always try my best to let him when he asks.  He'll pick the locomotive and the cars it pulls.  I hand him the remote once the train is ready (He can't reach the turnouts to make the train himself.) and off he goes.  5-10 min later he hands it back to me and says he's done.  And you know what, that's okay.  It's not off to video games (We limit his screen time, but he does play some when he has screen time he has earned.), but it's usually to draw, or play with his younger brother.  The trains are for me, and I built the layout for me.  I let him run trains when ever he asks and that is enough to keep him open to run them later.  Will this lead to him loving trains later?  Who knows.  The important thing is to let him have the access.

Sadly, mostly NO contest for their generation! :-(

I got to be completely honest with you all, there are more people that are young and involved in the hobby than you think. I am 17 years old and have a collection of over 50 locomotives from Lionel, MTH, K-line, Williams, Right of way Industrties, 3rd rail, and weaver. I have hundreds of passenger and freight cars which is a lot for someone my age. I am into electronics so I do Tmcc/PS upgrades and am beginning some Legacy upgrades with the help of forum member Bruk Banister. I am not the only one like this my age. I am on many different social media platforms and many of my group chats have over 30 people. All anywhere between 13-21 years of age and like me. Serious people who love this hobby just as much or more than the older folks. People are always saying this hobby is dying or that there are no young people involved, trust me, there are. People like me and Max Harris have YouTube Channels, Sid's Trains/ Max railroad, which are constantly growing with both over 1000 people following us. There are truly young people in the hobby and the young people in it are not letting video games take over.

Some of you might find my experience with my son and model railroading interesting.

I designed and built my current layout about 20 years ago when he was about 10 years old. He loved being involved because he loved designing it with me and got his first experience with tools under my supervision when we built it. This was very stimulating for him.

He usually was not very excited about running trains. No matter how elaborate the layout (mine is a switching layout with 16 022 switches, 8 independently powered sidings and 2 independently powered main lines), he quickly got bored running trains at age 10 and older.

He also quickly got bored with operating the many Postwar accessories on the layout.

Going to train shows with me only interested him for maybe the 1st 30 minutes. He would quickly evaluate what interested him, if anything, in a very short time, and then want to leave. What interested him the most were off beat items, like the O scale James Bond  vehicles and figures, and the Postwar Lionel military cars.

What fascinated him the most was opening up the locomotives, 022 switch tracks and Postwar operating accessories, seeing how ingenious the mechanisms were, and making repairs. This was very stimulating for him. He never became an expert at repairs because he had other interests and did not put in the neccessary time to become a repair expert, but he definitely had a talent for it. A few times, when I was stumped, he figured it out and fixed it, even as a 10 to 12 year old child.

I wonder if some of the children and grandchildren of other Forumites are similar to my son. If so, you may want to share all aspects of our multi-faceted hobby with the child, and then focus on doing together whatever interests that child the most. 

Model railroading with my son was a great bonding experience for us.

Arnold

@Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Dave, there is much merit to what you say.

I have a couple of questions.

Is it possible that a young model railroader can enjoy building and running his real model railroad, and then make video games by making videos of his real model trains running on his real model railroad?

Or, is the answer No, because it is impossible or impractical to do that?

Arnold

Well, difficult to put me in today's youth as I am 48. I think that today's youth maybe a small percentage probably could run trains and maybe make something out of that into some kind of video game. Question is what would it be. The bygone days had simulations with goals like Railroad Tycoon. This has seen a few sequels but all are essentially the same thing. You have a certain amount of money, build your railroad, invest, make profits, etc, etc to achieve whatever goals are set in the program. This could be entertaining to certain people of which I am. It was interesting to be Vanderbilt squeezing the competition to try and get the most out of the railroad, but alas, it can get boring.

The newer stuff that has come out recently which Eric Segal had commented on having no interest in was train simulators. These are far different from the above mentioned as they try to get as real looking as possible. One video I saw that someone out together was on the Dreyfuss Hudson. It did look pretty real, but there is only so much that can be done. I did watch a few but I found myself enjoying old B&W film of trains running, call me nostalgic I guess.

The real thing to take away from all of this is that anything is entirely possible, it just needs an audience and some people willing to take it up.

Having said that I believe that there will always be train fanatics modeling away and people making things virtual. It really comes down to what you enjoy. Some people love the experience of movie theater type environment in their homes, others are satisfied with a TV and loud sound. Who can say for sure, let's keep running out trains anyway. Someone's got to.

@Guitarmike posted:

I have liked doing the same things since I was a kid, I am 57 now. I am an old metalhead, been playing guitar since 1981. I have had some sort of layout since 1970. Sure at times I put other interests ahead of them but they were always waiting for me. During my highschool years I do not remember more than 3-4 kids that were active model railroaders. The older generation kept a bit of distance between themselves, their trains, and the teen modelers. We probably scared them with our long hair. 😜

On the tmcc sub forum Ryan has been integrating Alexa with tmcc. I can see a time in the near future where you could merge something like trainsim with your layout. The kids that like trains (but do not show it) may just surprise us yet.

Mike, I'll be 64 soon so we are from the same era.  I did not know of anyone other than myself who was interested in model trains at my rural high school.  There were probably other lone wolf modelers there, but I was not aware of any.

I think you are correct, there are more teenagers out there who are interested in trains than we would think.

This is a bit of a crossover, but Apple certified video game controllers will also run trains equipped with BlueRail Trains circuit boards.

Ten to fifteen minutes of watching trains running around in loops is about the norm in my experience.

We're in the hobby so we're biased toward trains and train sets. However, the vast majority of people (kids and adults) I know and have known over the years generally find model trains and layouts uninteresting, and even boring. Model railroading is niche hobby, and 3-rail is even a smaller niche of the total pie. The "specialness" of the hobby is when a grandfather, father, uncle, or older brother or even older sister, work with a young person in building a layout. That special bond is also made when working together on a car, motorcycle, I suppose anything that involves labor, problem solving, creativity, etc. with then the shared joy and reward of watching things "work" together.

@DylTrains posted:

I think, as a younger railroader (just recently post-university), if I could provide some advice for when it comes to trains vs videogames: It doesn't have to be one or the other to start with.

There are a number of video games, on a number of platforms, that involve trains.  The trick is introducing the right ones for different ages.  Older kids might enjoy a number of "railroad tycoon" type simulator games which will lead to a knowledge of industry, passengers, and other things.  This is basically building their own layout, albeit virtually.  After finishing the game, they will probably experience the same feeling when one finishes the series finale of a tv show (in this case, a wanting of something a little more... real?).   Examples include: Locomotion, Transport Fever, and Railroad Empire.  A murder mystery game I heard of is called "The Last Express".

For younger kids taking them to see big trains is a must, but there are some Nintendo games (typical system for younger gamers) that utilize trains in their entirety, or at least include trains as a form of travel (some even as a level boss!).  Google "video game trains" to see what I mean.  If the game was fun, they will remember that aspect for a long, long time. 

Shows like "Thomas the Tank Engine" will help a lot too, or even shows that are set in time periods where train travel is a natural thing (some teens might enjoy the dubbed version of a Japanese Anime (made for older kids usually) called "Baccano!", which quite literally involves the fictional gruesome, and supernatural, happenings on a transcontinental train in the American 1930s).  The good news is that there are OPTIONS (you don't need an unsanctioned "monster" movie night to seem like the cool grandparent either when there are ones with trains in them).

On the physical side, one thing that might have gotten me more enthused about my uncles layout when I was small, might have been a painting session.  Assemble a smaller train with some generic and cheap box cars, and have the kid paint them with you.  Add decals after maybe if you like, but then the train will truly be "theirs" and might not seem as daunting if it had been a "not for small hands" model. 

In other words, PLAY THE LONG GAME.  It wont happen over night, and don't make it seem like your pushing trains for some kids.  Do not be afraid to leave the comfort of the train table to slowly bring them to it.  Sure it might vanish after they hit say 7, but there are ways of keeping tracks in the mindset indirectly.  At least till they can afford their own.

The main problem with Thomas now (as a fan of the show) is that Mattel (the current owner) are more interested into making a show more like "Paw Patrol" than an entertaining children's show with elements of proper railway realism. In the original book series (the original series of 26 books written by the Rev. Wilbert Awdry) most (if not all) of the stories were based off of real life incidents, instead of having fantasy segments and writing off original characters, such as Edward (the first engine). Many children have lost interest in the show because it has lost it's human touch in more recent year, or at least from what I've seen, and especially now, where the show will be put on hiatus, and is now only airing on Netflix for the United States, I've got the feeling that the more and more children are going to be shying away from it. Not only that, but many of the toys , which so many children grew up with, have either been discontinued entirely and/or replaced by cheap substitutes (seriously, look up Thomas Wooden Railway and compare it with Thomas Wood, especially since they didn't bother to paint the toy fully in the first run of products).  Yet another family classic which is being ruined by executives that have no idea what made the series classic, it didn't need gimmicks, it was just a wholesome show, written to entertain children using real events as inspiration, not flying cars and robot walking bridges.

Arnold I'm not young, except at heart.  I grew up in the '70s in the Northeast U.S.; probably the last generation of children who experienced electric trains before video games, remote control cars, etc.  However, I think the answer to your question is YES!  It's definitely possible to integrate video game concepts with electric trains. 

As for ideas, I posted this a couple of years ago on the Forum.  But that post grew from an idea that I first shared on a V-scale (virtual railroading) forum eight years before in 2010.

One of the inspirations for the "train game" that I described in my post earlier in this thread, was a Pac-man like video game called SideTrak that was part of the first or second generation of arcade games, and perhaps the only one I know of with a train theme.  It debuted around 1980 and I think it was ported to the ColecoVision home system.  But once Pac-Man came out, SideTrak faded into obscurity, which is a shame because IMO Pac-Man was an obvious rip-off of the SideTrak game play.

In the last 10 years, technologies have been introduced into 3-rail O that have the potential to make running trains more interactive and game-like than ever before.  I'm convinced that it's doable, but it won't be simple or cheap.  Perhaps a travelling Lionel demonstration layout for train shows?  Or a special interactive exhibit at one of the nation's premier railroad or science museums.  

Over the years I've refined my vision, but I would probably need help from some of the genius on this Forum to make it a reality.  The idea of running trains as a "game" might not appeal to Boomers and older Americans.  But if it's sufficiently interactive, varied, and engaging, it could draw in younger generations, game fans, and help ensure a broader, healthier future for the hobby!

Ted S: Really good points, all of them!  How many traditional Mom & Pop hobby and train shops alike have folded because they didn't advance with the time refusing to use the internet as a means to expand their business on a national or even international scale? 

As I see it, the way to introduce today's younger generation to The World's Greatest Hobby takes more than just Thomas the Tank Engine to get them interested in Dad's or Grandfather's trains.  Using a "Game Train" is a pretty good start which might very well help them advance to model railroading, and quite possibly, take "field trips" with Dad and Grandfather on railfan tours in order to observe first hand just what prototype railroading is all about.

Feedback Please!

73

Joe

Maybe- as one poster said, the kids would gravitate more to the hobby through DOING vs. playing- in its various parts:

- Electronics and electrical- wiring up buildings, soldering LEDs and resisters

- Mechanics (repairing and maintaining)

- art- designing and painting scenery, downloading, printing and installing signs on the layout

- design, geometric aspects of making up track plans

- architecture, construction- assembling building kits, starting with simple ones.  Plasticville etc.

IF we exposed them to these and were willing to accept the results.  I for one tend to do all of the above myself- wanting my view of perfection.  Then, I too find that "running trains" is not all that fascinating for more than 5 minutes, to most kids.  

I can see why "slot cars" replaced electric trains in the 1960s. You could customize the car (paint, tires, motor), then see if you could beat other cars. Just keeping it on the "road" was a challenge. Much more exciting than switching freight cars around. 

Frankly, I think the best thing to get folks into electric trains is running ads in AARP magazine for those retired or thinking about it. The old "what will I do with all my spare time?" question. 

I'm in my 40s, a huge model railroader, I create model RR content, and I'm an avid gamer who does indeed love Train Simulators. Model Railroading gives me that haptic feedback that I really enjoy, but I also want to understand dynamic brakes on a train coming down an incline, or adhering to a timetable in an F40 commuter. I'm not going to get that in model railroading and I'm probably a little too old to get a job on the Railroad. 

Folks have different interests and that's what makes us unique. My daughter has no interest in model railroading, but we share other things together.

I am currently the President of the American Model Yachting Association- AMYA- which is an association of model sailboat racing enthusiasts.  We have the identical problem(s) as model railroading does- attracting "new blood".  Also- we are generally "of a certain age".  Our average age (I think) is around 70, AND we are 98% males.  (What I MEAN is that 98% ARE males- but we are all "manly men")

We too think that (in the short term- 5 years or so)  growth potential is best among those retirees and older men that got involved in sailing as Baby Boomer kids, or later as young adults in the 1970's.  But we also realize that, for our model sailing hobby/sport to survive, we need to attract younger people and women.                                                           

I think that the (Boy) Scouts present a great opportunity as well for model railroading.  The BSA began accepting girls 11 and older into the organization just this past January 2020.  Our local Council (NE Ohio_) reports that out of new Scouts in 2020.. 66% are girls.

So- 

- become a "Railroading" Merit Badge Counselor.  Go online to see the badge:   https://filestore.scouting.org...dRes/Railroading.pdf

- Contact your local BSA Council.

- offer to run a program at a local Troop, BUT...

- be sure to INCLUDE A PARENT.  No kid can afford (in money or in space) to have a model railroad WITHOUT parental support and cash.  And making it a joint project might get adults into our hobby.  Maybe the program is "Railroading Merit Badge" and at the same time- build an under-bed train that rolls out to be used.

There's room for both video games and model trains. I've done both since I was young, with Lionel trains when I was as young as I can remember, and then video games when I was a teenager. I still enjoy both, I have a Sony PS4 and a Nintendo Switch, and enjoy playing games on both systems. I have a point to point Lionel layout in my basement that I have enjoyed building for years, and look forward to working on and operating and adding to in the coming years.

No kids or grand kids, but plenty of nieces and nephews that now have young kids. You know what they love doing when they come over? Playing with my Lego Trains. Sure, they enjoy running my Lionel Trains, and playing video games, but they all Love playing with the Lego Trains. The creativity of building new layouts, custom engines & train cars. Plenty of Lego people, vehicles, and buildings to fire up their imagination. I alternate between having Lionel Trains and Lego Trains under the Christmas tree each year.

Playing with trains and video games with the younger generation helps me remain a child, even at 57.

Cheers.

Bruce

PRR Bruce: Sure sounds like you've found the secret where you can enjoy the best of both worlds.  I call this Century 21 Survival at it's best! 

Has your point to point Lionel layout been featured anywhere here at OGR?  I'd love to see it!  I have a small basement room in the apartment complex where I live and have given a lot of thought about a point to point layout myself.  I'm still impressed with the O scale two rail Pioneer Valley layout that was featured in Model Railroader as well as reprinted in one of their layout books as well.  Though I'm not interested in modeling the freelanced PV, the trackplan would work great in the basement room.  It would be three rail using Ross Custom Switches products.

73

Joseph Toth Jr.

All of you have very interesting ideas about integrating video games and model railroads. I don't understand much of what you say because I have zero knowledge and experience with video games, but my 32 year old son liked them (not now because he's on his honeymoon) (LOL). I understand enough. however, to believe that such integration has potential to grow our hobby. Arnold

One of the biggest aspects of this argument is being ignored. The price is one thing but the connectivity is the biggest. As a 24 year old who works in a school and plays with both trains and video games regularly, video games allow kids to more easily connect to their friends outside of school. Many outside the hobby see model trains as a solo hobby one does by themselves and that’s where a major stigma comes from. 

I can easily texts my friends and ask them to hop online and play with them and just relax and talk and have be instantaneous. Where as if I want to run my trains with one of my friends or family members we need to plain a day and time due to our schedules. As it becomes easier to connect and hang out and play online games with friends it draws kids away from other hobby’s. Unless there are kids nearby playing trains with other kids is tough to do since kids need transportation by adults as well as consent from all parents involved. That’s why it was so much easier to play trains with friends in the 1950’s through the early 1970’s because every kid had trains and therefore your neighbor could come over and run their trains or vice versus. Attention spans are part of it, but kids today more then ever want to be with their friends as much as possible and they are going to gravitate towards activities that allows that more easily. 

Vinny you get the gold star award winning post on this topic.  Connectivity is the key word.

Much has been said about Boy Scouts and merit badges etc. The fun of scouting was the camping and the outdoors. Plus for young boys fire, sharp objects and projectile weapons (bow and arrows and 22 rifles) were  the fun. It was most importantly with friends and adult involvement like teaching the right way. Yes I was a Scout and a leader.

Yes as a lad we wander the neighbor looking for other kids outside or the old knock on doors yelling your friends name.

Yes spending time with your kids building, painting, planning and what not is great but only goes so far. Clubs are ok but once a month a bunch of old guys talking trains is not going to do it for most. I do not think that is connectivity most young people have in mind.

I am not smart enough to figure it.  But I do like the concept of connectivity.  Enough boring people and no I am not sad. 

Vinny, very good point indeed. Also times change, technology changes too as well as socializing. Who can say what the future brings. Maybe we'll get amazed.

This reminds me of a conversation a friend of mine and I had. He was worried about giving trains to them for fear of them being more interested in video games later on. I told him to fast forward 40 years when they're adults, and the topic of toy trains comes up. They're asked if they're into trains at all. There's 3 ways this can go.

1. The first and most ideal response. "Oh I love toy trains. My grandfather had them, and he let me play with them. Now I'm into them, and share them with my kids!

2. Not as ideal, but not the end of the world. "My grandfather got me trains as a kid, and/or let me play with his. But I lost interest over time(for whatever reason)."

 3. This is the bad one, and I'll be dingbusted if I allow this to happen in my own life. "My father/grandfather/uncle had them when I was a kid. But he never let me do anything with them. Now I have no interest whatsoever."

He got them a couple sets. The grand daughter enjoys watching them. But the by absolutely loves them!! Can't get enough of them. I've even been able to let them run my stuff when I've been able to test trains on his layout.

As for me. I'm not exactly a young buck at 40. I've been into toy trains for as long as I can remember. I began collecting on my own when I graduated high school, and started working full time. I've never left the hobby. I do enjoy video games, but trains is definitely my passion.

Bill

I don't see how video games and trains are mutually exclusive. Many of us were first introduced to Lionel trains in the 1970's. Doom came out in the early 1990's which would put those of us who had MPC trains in the 1970's in our late teens to early 20's when Doom came out (as free ware for the first levels), and were we ready for it. I play World of Warcraft. I have an X-Box, X-Box 360, X-Box One. I also have O-gauge trains. I enjoy both video games and trains. 

If anything suffers, it is regular television. I find the vast majority of TV programming a bore and not very interactive. No and then something comes along like Thrones that captivates me, but not very often. Video games and model trains have one thing in common and that is the interaction between the person and the entertainment.  

Joe H said:  "I can see why "slot cars" replaced electric trains in the 1960s. You could customize the car (paint, tires, motor), then see if you could beat other cars. Just keeping it on the "road" was a challenge. Much more exciting than switching freight cars around."

I was one of those- I had Marx trains as a kid- but they "disappeared" (Mom?) during one of our moves when I was in third grade or so.   Then by the sixth grade,  Aurora introduced HO slot cars, and I was there up to an including the commercial 1/24th,  until "perfume and gas fumes" time at 16.  "You can't RACE trains" I told my buddies.  

But another huge factor in the lessening of interest in model trains was the "car culture" of the 1960's.  Beach Boys and Jan and Dean Music, car models and posters, auto racing in general- were all tremendous interests of American male teens of that time.

I read all posts on this topic and all of you make great points !  If I may chime in; my father bought my first set of trains when I was 4 1/2 years old.  We lived n Queens,, NY in a one bedroom apartment. A few blocks north of our apartment building was the Flushing  Elevated Subway  Line . A few blocks south was the Independent Subway Queens division. Hence my interest in trains.  My father built a 4 X 8 layout on plywood with a hinge in the middle so it folded up. FAst forward to today, I till have my original train set and ZW transformer. I am finally own a house with a room where I am rebuilding my layout. Oh I am 68 years old. 

My grandson is interested as my son was as he was growing up. My grandson started with a Brio Wooden train set and has "graduated" to HO, lol. Hopefully the interest will remain as my grandson is 6 years old.

Of all the great posts here,  many of you indicate today's electronics and video games are the main reasons for the decline in the hobby and I have to agree.  Before the pandemic I attended many rain shows in the NY City and New Jersey area.  I also attended trains shows here in South Carolina here I now live. Most of those who attend are mature individuals. While there are children there, adults are predominate. 

Today I see the youth with their face in a phone or playing video games. I have to say I am impressed with some of the train related video games, simulators where you can actually operate a train.  Also other hobbies are suffering as well where some skill and imagination is required. 

Also, as mentioned by many of you, the cost of today's trains are high. Even with the electronics added sounds, DCS, Legacy, DCC , the price of these components are high if not prohibited. 

 In the meantime , enjoy what we have !!!! We all have love for this hobby in spite of the contraction, ie. MTH, and today's youth.

Thank you for reading !

I don't think you can pass down something like a love for trains.  There are lots of people that see my layout and they always look amazed, but its not like they want to join the hobby all of a sudden.  When I was a kid hobbies were what you did.  I loved so many things and did them all.   I would go from hobby to hobby.  Model building, Estes Model Rockets, Model Trains, Developing Film and Photos in my own darkroom, Electronics building kits (remember Heath Kits), woodworking, cars, etc.   I also fell in love with video games (Atari 2600, Nintendo).  Now I am into building a massive Smart Home.  It's more a persons interests than trying to pass something down to the next generation.  Initially when anyone sees the train layout they are interested/curious.  But if you aren't into model building, electrics, the locomotive industry, etc. it will wear off fast. But don't worry, there will still be kids interested in those things.   It's just that they have more things today to entertain them and lets face it, the cost of the hobby today can be a huge turn off.

My wife and I have 3 children. The youngest is 28 and the oldest just turned 40. (That makes me feel old.). No grandchildren yet. While they were growing up I didn’t have room for a permanent layout but I always set up a loop under the Christmas tree and kept it up as long as possible after the tree was gone. Actually made it to March one year. All 3 kids enjoyed setting it up and running trains until about 12 or 13 years old.  I’m now building a small layout in a spare bedroom and they all ask about my progress getting it set up. None of them are interested in having trains of their own but that could change with grandkids. 

All three played video games growing up and the two boys still regularly play on-line games together with their friends. My oldest son was seriously interested in video games to the point that we were concerned that it might become his sole focus in life. And it did, but not in a bad way. After trying lots of classes at the local Jr. College he transferred to the University and dual majored in Computer Science and Math graduating with High Honors in both majors. Today he’s a Software Engineer for a mid sized Tech company and lives in Santa Monica 5 blocks from the beach. 4 years after graduating he’s getting very close to $150K/year. If your kids/grandkids are really into video games try and leverage that interest to a career in a STEM field. 

@Andrew-Porter posted:

I'm sure it's far more complex than you present. As a retired publisher of a special interest magazine, I can see that falling advertising, falling readership, all spell the end of many magazines. Many cease publishing before they start to lose money. Also, the internet spelled the end of so many magazines. 

In my case, I'd gather news, write things up, buy interviews, cover art, columns, design the issue and send it to the printer, then it would be mailed to subscribers (entrusted to the hands of the Post Office!) and finally show up a month or so after the events I covered.

Or, the events show up on the internet a few minutes or hours after they happen—and often access is free to anyone who has a smartphone or computer and an ISP.

Having worked in magazine publishing for decades (at not only my own company, but three major magazine publishers that no longer exist) I know what the people at OGR are dealing with. I have a subscription, and my tiny bit of money helps support them.

Now this guy KNOWS what he is talking about.  If you want to keep your magazines and advertisers/suppliers in business, then support them!  We certainly appreciate those that do and we do our best to give the value for your money!

@Sean's Train Depot posted:

I don't think you can pass down something like a love for trains.  There are lots of people that see my layout and they always look amazed, but its not like they want to join the hobby all of a sudden.  When I was a kid hobbies were what you did.  I loved so many things and did them all.   I would go from hobby to hobby. 

Sean, I did, and still do, that, jumping from one hobby to another. Mine have been O Gauge trains, songwriting, singing and playing guitar, golf, archery (onlytarget shooting with recurve bow), and tennis.

Of late, and for the foreseeable future, I believe I will stop archery and tennis, but continue the others mentioned above, with a focus on the trains because I find it a very relaxing form of light hearted entertainment, which is something I need.

My wife says that being married to me is like being married to 5 different men. LOL, Arnold

Kids that show little interest in trains could always enter the hobby as an adult.   We seem to gauge the life of the hobby by the interest of those who are young or teens.  But the time could come when they decide to show an interest and are able to spend the thousands it takes to enjoy the hobby.   Video games are popular but they seem to have a very short life span before its on to the next item of interest.  

Alan, no need to be concerned about the OGR family failing to support the best model railroad magazine found on the market today!  I'm sure that the majority of your readers and subscribers (myself included) use the services provided by OGR advertisers whenever possible.  Of course, it's only natural for one to use and support his or her hometown train or hobby shop first, before consulting with "out-of-town" vendors.

I mentioned on another thread about a major magazine publishing house who appears to be loosing their customer base because they've continued to downsize the content and quality of their magazines.  I have a feeling that the founder of this once highly respected publishing house and his former editiors and onetime lovely secretary are busy turning over in their graves as they witness what has become out of this once thriving business which was considered by many railfans and model railroaders to have been the absolute leader in the field.

On the other hand, another publisher has ( and continues to) rescue railroad orientated magazines that have fallen on hard times as a result of the internet and other unrelated issues.  This same publishing house also has become today's leader in printing magazines for many of the railroad historical society magazines in North America as well.

This publishing house, just like OGR, employ a team of professionals who put their entire heart and soul in the business.  The "other one" who continues to loose much of their onetime dedicated reader base, has only survived by having the name of their founder on their masthaed, instead of making necessary Century 21 improvements to insure a sound future for their customers as well as themselves.  Their loss is OGR as well as the "New Kid on the Block" publisher's gain!

73

J Toth Jr.

Some of you have blamed the high price of today's trains being a good reason for lack of interest. Here is a Lionel page from the 1952 Sears catalog. Based on what today's money is "worth": Turbine freight complete set $601., Twin Santa Fe diesels (only) $471., one aluminum lightweight passenger car $92. 

Hi Joe,

Thanks for the reality check!  Mom and dad didn’t have a lot of money to spend on luxuries like model trains. Some family members and friends had pretty extensive layouts with lots of locomotives, rolling stock, and operating accessories. My older brother received a basic Lionel set and a few years later I received a #41 2-4-2 Switcher and two cars to pull around a small oval. I’m sure that those purchases were a big expense for them in the mid-50’s. 

John