Santa Fe coach interiors

I too am in the process of detailing the interior (and exterior) of a Lionel 6-19111 diner. Hobby Lobby has Ceramcoat Acrylic paints, the Turquoise would look great on those walls. I am using this color for the seating areas in my diner.

I wish I had put some green in my mix. Anyhoo, I was hoping to have everybody home for Easter. Not going to happen. The paint crew is being too meticulous. Not to mention I’m not ecstatic about the shiny  figures. I’m thinking about thinning down some mod podge matte to see if I can dull them a bit. And their luggage is lost.
obx

Anyone doing flooring for the observation cars? What are you guys using for an information source to model the colors and fixtures in the cars? 

I've been inside a few vintage cars. Seems like "Civil Service Green" was pretty popular back in the day, but not guaranteed.

have you considered looking up what the prototype used?

Torquoise for the walls is correct.   This web search acoma lounge car interior will give you some nice interior pictures of a Super Chief lounge car.

Bob

@RRDOC thank you for the Acoma link. That is helpful. I never would have landed on the Acoma name.

Its one thing to search the web and hope to get lucky, its another to know where the useful sites are. My intent is to do detailed finishing of my observation cars, Santa Fe included, but particularly 2 Hiawatha's which have far more window area.  I was curious about the "carpet" as while color printing a "textured" carpet is straightforward, I have found paper does not hold up very well over a short period of time as it curls and loses its tack to the floor. Maybe its my glue, paper something else. That is what I am trying to find out. 

So in writing this reply found folks who detail model cars use a couple of different techniques, just got lucky on the search string.

This one uses clear decal sheets to produce textured seats. I suppose this could produce graphic carpets. But I think this could be interesting for the seats.  Textured Seats

The others use flock or embossing powder for carpet.  flock carpeting

If there are other options you have used, please share. THX

Santa Fe used a textured fabric on streamlined chair car seats.  The color was a teal shade, but was not dark.  It was not pale, either, just sort of a medium light tone of teal, muted with a very small amount of black or gray.  

Floors on diners, lounges, Pullmans, and long distance chair cars were carpeted with a mottled design of carpet which incorporated light and dark brown with accents of black and maroon.  Floors on short-haul chair cars were covered with beige linoleum.  These were used on the San Diegan, Golden Gate, and Tulsan.  A headrest - originally white cotton fabric with a Santa Fe emblem, then, after about 1960, disposable paper with an emblem - was provided on each reclining chair car seat.  Men used oily hair products like Wildroot Cream Oil or Vitalis.

Heavyweight chair cars did not use "Sleepy Hollow" streamliner seats, but, instead, used overstuffed reclining seats with dark green velvet upholstery.  They were really comfortable.  I don't remember anything about the floors of these cars.  Santa Fe differentiated between chair cars and coaches.  Chair cars had individual reclining seats, whereas coaches had walkover seats.

A maroon textured fabric was used to upholster some Pullmans, Lounges, and dining car chairs.

@ScoutingDad posted:

I was curious about the "carpet" as while color printing a "textured" carpet is straightforward, I have found paper does not hold up very well over a short period of time as it curls and loses its tack to the floor. Maybe its my glue, paper something else. That is what I am trying to find out.

I've had success on similar projects in the past 3M or Duro branded spray adhesive. (I think I've seen it under the Permatex brand as well.) Generally, it works best to spray both surfaces lightly and then bring them together after a minute or so (let the volatiles in the solvent flash off), much like working with contact cement. At that point, it will behave somewhat like pressure-sensitive adhesive. You can apply to one surface only, but be sure to firmly and completely press the paper down to push any air bubbles out. Practice on some scrap to test results, and it's best to spray the stuff outside or in a big open space like the garage, with the car outside. Apply like spray paint, starting and finishing from off to the side of the material and keep the spray moving so you're depositing light, fine spray, not big droplets. (Big droplets will become lumps when the adhesive dries!)

Try not to get the paper really "wet" with the adhesive -- you're aiming for a light film, especially if you're able to apply it to both surfaces. The object is to distribute a film of adhesive and for the carrier solvent to evaporate so that the paper is less likely to curl. Once down, it shouldn't curl (especially if you were able to apply to both surfaces), it will stay smooth, and holds quite well.

That said, anything you're putting on top of it with adhesive (figures, seats, etc.) will have to adhere on top of the paper -- which might not be optimal for heavier things -- so plan accordingly.

This is pretty much how they turned out. I’m considering altering the Vista Dome car to let more light into the middle down below where it’s dark. He can’t see to read his newspaper😜 There’s not very much light entering above either. I think I can get a bit more light up there also. Happy modeling everyone.
obx.

they recline 3D printed.

@obxtrainman posted:

I’m considering altering the observation car to let more light into the middle down below where it’s dark. He can’t see to read his newspaper😜 There’s not very much light entering above either.

Well, maybe.  But FWIW, when I was studying your excellent photos, I particularly admired the lighting. IMO, having too much and too uniform lighting through windows is one of the biggest mistakes that folks make in modeling buildings, and I think the same applies here.  Yes, give that guy more reading light, but don't overdo it.

Great work!

@AlanRail,

Nice, very nice.  Are those in the OGR 3d print repository, or are they proprietary?

only print on a Formlabs 3+ printer which are now being sold at a reduced price

message me or email

@obxtrainman & group:

Wow !!!

I love your dome & main floor car interiors.  Great work !!!

In addition to @RRDOC websites with the Acoma lounge photos & @Number 90  comments, here are some places to look for car interior color schemes:

1.  AT&SF timetables, brochures, pamphlets, poatcards, magazine ads, & booklets. 

2.  Santa Fe Historical & Modeling Society publications.

3.  Books on the AT&SF passenger trains.  I found books on the Santa Fe Chiefs & a Santa Fe Passenger Train Compendium in a web search.

4.  There are several books available on pre-war & post-war streamliners that have nice glossy photos of passenger car interiors.  "The Art of the Streamliner" is one of them.

5.   Car builder magazine ads from Budd, Pullman Standard, & ACF.   

6.  Web search for "Santa Fe Train Slide/Photo".

I have found many color photos of the interiors of many of Burlington's Zephyrs from similar sources.

Keep up the great work !!!

CB&Q Bill   

Obxtrainman, you have really stepped up the original car interiors, nice job!

I have a set of the earlier mth streamlined cars that I want to do something similar on and was waiting for a set of engines to pull them before starting.  I found the engines a couple of weeks ago, so excited to maybe move forward with these.  I ran across this you tube video that showed the interior of a lot of the super chief cars as another reference.

https://youtu.be/y1uNIoC1yM8

I was initially disappointed that my mth set only had one vista dome car, but link to the video showed at least one example running with only one as well, who knew…

I was not sure how far I was going to take this, and may just compromise with some solid colors.  I did notice in the vista dome the alternating chair colors of orange/red vs navy with white cloth protectors by the head rest that I thought would be interesting to look at, especially being easy to see in the top of that car.  Maybe also add the radio antenna on this car as well.

I also want to attempt the candles in the diner car like Jack Pierce does on his cars at York.  I always thought they looked super cool.

I may have to get some more info from Tom as I get into this project more.

Isn't it a little bright?

@Avanti posted:

Well, maybe.  But FWIW, when I was studying your excellent photos, I particularly admired the lighting. IMO, having too much and too uniform lighting through windows is one of the biggest mistakes that folks make in modeling buildings, and I think the same applies here.  Yes, give that guy more reading light, but don't overdo it.

Great work!

After crudely removing some of the upper walls with a dremel it came out fairly good. The room is still a bit dark under operation. I also took out some up top. The effect could be better but it’s acceptable.

Thanx HY Mike. They’re not great but a sight better than out of the box. I tinkered with toning down the lights with water based markers. With the colors I put in the interiors they were changing to  magenta using an orange one. I was advised about the Tamiya orange but it’s over two hour drive back to Hobby Lobby and usually a bit over a week through the post. As I had hoped just painting them helped with the brightness. Some of the walls wash out to grey at different angles. I started this early February, it was time to wrap it up.  Maybe 3 or 4 people will see it anyway.
obx

I am just completing my Lionel engine updates with scale mounted couplers.  I used the link below for the idea.

https://ogrforum.com/...ap-on-lionel-f-units

They are close and tight now and ready to move on to the mth car interiors.  I realize that none of these cars are accurate for the Santa Fe, but trying to have some of feature be recognizable.  The color descriptions mentioned above I am having a tough time getting pictured in my head.

I am starting with the diner now.  I am thinking it will resemble the link below when I am done.  Is this illustration wrong?

https://wildwesthistory.blogsp...ning-to-old.html?m=1

Initial paint coat white for table clothes.  The holes are for fiber optic candles to be used.  I picked up some beads from hobby lobby for glasses and coffee cups.  The molded seats on this car are really terrible, super small and roughly resemble a chair.

When I start the pleasure dome, I am using the following sites with pics for ideas.  I feel like a lot of these references conflict each other.  Lots of patterns on seats and curtains, but I am sticking with solid colors.  I plan to put the antenna on it.

http://www.trainweb.org/chris/featherdomes.html

https://streamlinermemories.info/?p=1286

For the sleeper car, I plan to use the images in the super chief video I posted earlier in this thread.  I can’t tell if the walls are green, grey or turquoise?

For the coaches, I can’t find any pictures of what they might look like from the 50s.  I realize the super chief didn’t have coaches, but due to limited options, mine will, .  I think what Tom was describing above was teal seats with a white cloth headrest, is that right?  I saw this link and think it might be it.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/228979962274948343/

Any color picture references others might have would be helpful.

I am struggling with the observation car as well.  While the super chief video I had attached above showed one of the observations, but I can’t tell the color of all the seats.  I can see some are blue and are some tan, but suspect there might be some red ones in there as well like the pleasure dome.  Hoping someone might have some web references for these as well.  I have seen several references to this lounge car, but not sure if it is also an observation.  

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/458170962093184512/

@Hump Yard Mike,

Thanks for the OGR link on the f units, it contains a lot of good stuff.

Maybe you said, but I didn't see it, did your come with that plastic dining car insert (if so, what was the Lionel car), or did you buy it separately (if so, where)?

That is a mth diner car and it’s insert

I completed my diner car.  The painting is not nearly as nice as OBX above where a lot of my masking leaked, but I think that is hard to pick up on when looking through the windows.

I did do the candles I mentioned above.  While a bit whimsical, I think they look really cool.   The candles and the extra items on the tables were a full day effort including cutting the people to fit with some resemblance of legs along with flowers/salads.  I found I have little patience and little talent  for cleaning up the little people. This was my first time in ever doing this.  There must be a better predone seated person that has better details and doesn’t require the custom fit.

I did learn some lessons others might be interested in when using the fiber optics.  For each LED (which I used 4),  I lit 5 candles.  I did the car over twice, where the first time I glued the fiber optics with ca on the bottom of the car and also to the led source.  I found when I did this that not all the candles came out with a consistent brightness (thinking that ca glue points may have have robbed some light). After spending a half of the day on the first attempt, the next day I decided I wasn’t happy and ripped it all out and started over.  This time I used heat shrink tubing glued to the bottom of the car to route the fibers.   I also change how the LEDs connected to the fiber,where I just roughed up the the LED lens so light was more evenly distributed, then put heat shrink around the led with 1/2” extending past the led for the individual fibers to be pushed into.  On the candle side, I played a bit to get the best light, but in the end, creating a point by shaving three different sides of the optic seems to work best and then just some highlights of tamiya clear orange to get a nice candle color glow.  I also had trouble getting all of this to sit flat and allow the car to be assembled again, I carefully cut a little more room on the underside where the 3mm LEDs were placed at.

While the adventure was fun in doing this, I originally had plans to do this to several other diners I own, but having second thoughts on it now.  After going through all of this, it just reinforces what a great value  Jack Pierce’s cars are at York.  

Very nice work, Mike.