scale refer size discrepancy

Well you have to be more specific on the Lionel car. Is it their Standard O (scale) car or an older 027 car? The trainman car is pretty close. A Lionel Standard O PS-1 boxcar is scale and pretty darn close to accurate size. The build date on the car means nothing as far as scale, semi-scale, or even 027.

To save money the Atlas/ROCO stock car body reused the roof and end tooling from the AtlasO  box car  which as designed using PRR X43c drawings (per Atlas illustrator/researcher Ted Stepek).  The Trainman line of 40' box, stock and insulated box cars in part reused 1970's vintage Atlas/ROCO tooling.  The  ATlasO 40' stock car and insulated box car models have no specific prototypes - but they may be close to some.

 

Ed Rappe

The average wood stock car was typically smaller in all dimensions than a standard PS-1 box car.  The Atlas car is a model of the very largest stock cars, and you will find few that large in old photos.

Thanks guys. Just to clarify, I was referring to the modern (2008?) scale stock car that lionel did in various road names. They include the 4 plastic cows within. I figured that the Lionel was closer to proper size.

Graz

 

Ed and Bob have good info on the Atlas and Lionel Stock cars.  Both are scale models of 40 foot long stock cars.  The Lionel car is based on an older prototype and is similar in height and width to a USRA box car or a ice bunker refrigerator car.  The Atlas Trainman model has the same dimensions as a post-WWII box car.

 

Atlas and Weaver both make their stock cars with the same ends and roof as box cars in their product line.  As Ed said, the Atlas stock car shares the same R+3/4 improved dreadnought ends and Stanray diagonal panel roof as the Trainman 40' plug and sliding door box cars.  These were very common ends and roof panels used by a variety of builders and railroad car shops from the late 1940s into the diesel era.  Weaver uses the Pullman-Standard ends and bow-tie roof panels from their PS-1 box cars. 

 

MTH uses early 4/5 dreadnought ends with a Stanray diagonal panel roof on their premier line stock car.  The tooling is unique to the MTH stock car.  The MTH PS-1 box car and AAR box car have different ends and roofs.

 

The Atlas Trainman, MTH and Weaver stock cars are all similar in dimensions and represent some of the last 40 foot stock cars built new or rebuilt by railroad car shops from other cars.

 

The Lionel Standrd O stock car was introduced back in 2002.  It is based on a 1930s American Car and Foundry prototype.  It has 4/4 dreadnought steel ends but a wooden roof and sides.

 

The K-Line stock car is also worth mentioning.  It is similar in size to the Lionel Standard O stock car and a reasonably good scale model.  It has dreadnought ends and a Murphy rectangular panel roof.  Lionel has continued to offer this car as one of their K-Line by Lionel products.

 

Smaller dimensioned stock cars like the Lionel and K-Line models were common into the 1960s.  In the 1950s and 60s some of the western railroads started to operate larger cars similar to the Atlas, MTH and Weaver models.  Weather smaller and older or newer and larger in dimension stock cars were often rebuilt from used components in railroad cars shops.  Some odd components could end up on a stock car.  I have seen photos of a stock car with three piece ends of two different types.  I have even seen a photo of a stock car with a lumber door on one end.  Hopefully it was welded shut!  What ever your taste in stock cars know that trains in the 1940s, 50s and 60s should have box cars, reefers and stock cars with varying roof heights.  We have five good stock car options to chose from in O scale and they represent the variation in car dimensions seen in the post-WWII era.   

 

 

When making up trains please take note:  Stock cars would be placed immediately behind the locomotive to minimize the chance of injury to the animals due to slack action.

Ted Wow. Thank you for this response. A real education on the subject. Very much appreciated, Mike

where did "Scale reefer size discrepancy" come into this?

Well said Ted.

 

The title of the whole thread, by the original poster, "Scale refer(sic) size discrepancy".

 

However, he first starts the discussion about "stock cars". Sort of confusing; is the subject REALLY about "stock cars" or "refer(sic).

found this interesting article about moving livestock by rail and further makes Ted's point about why loaded stock cars moved at the head of trains.  http://www.atsfrr.com/resource...r/Clinics/Stk/07.htm

Another reason loaded stock cars ran in blocks on expidited trains was the USDA 28 hour rule that mandated feeding and excercising livestock every 28 hours while in transist.

Ed Rappe

 

Gents,

I just read Charlie's comment and then saw that I put "refer" in the title. My fault. It was late. It should have stated Stock car discrepancy (or at least spelled reefer correctly.)

Thanks for interpreting my garbled post correctly though and thank you for all of the responses.

Mike

Mike

i learned a lot from this post.

I am wondering if anyone made a PRR K-8 in three rail?

 

 

Charlie - no 3 rail K8's have been offered to date but PSC imported unpainted brass PRR K7, K7a, and K8 stock cars.  They could be 3RS'd with Kadee's and Weaver trucks (NMRA spec bolsters).  Without scale wheel you may need to jack the car up with washers (and shim down the couplers) for the flanges to clear the floor details.

 

Ed Rappe

We 2- railers are not quite so picky - a generic cattle car will generally do:

 

It's interesting to hear that 2 railers may be less fussy than three rail scalers.

 

It's a testament to how far the manufacturers have come in detail and scale fidelity.

I'm glad that you folks found that info useful.

 

I am wondering if anyone made a PRR K-8 in three rail?

 

Charlie

 

I don't know of any non-brass O scale stock cars with wooden ends unless you find an old kit or scratch build.

 

Rich Yoder has made some beautiful stock cars with wooden or Murphy 7/8 ends. 

 

http://www.richyodermodels.com/

 

 

But I just might decide that 5 Lionels are a good value for the price of one brass model.

 

One last note on the Lionel stock car, it has a diecast floor and is on the heavy side at 19 ounces without the cows.  That helps if you are running stock cars at the head of a train.  The MTH car is the next most heavy at 16 ounces.  The K-Line and Trainman are at tad lighter.  I don't have a Weaver stock car but I would not be surprised to find that it is the lightest of the group.

 

 

 

Ted - do you know which railroads had cars built to the 1930's ACF design - I'd like to 2 rail the Lionel stock car.

 

Ed Rappe

Ed

 

I do not know which roads bought new stock cars in the 30s.  Perhaps they were in the east of midwest.  Most western roads seemed to rebuild stock cars from USRA style box cars or reefers. They met the dimensional needs and the 40 ton trucks were adequate too.

 

The Yoder ATSF model with 7/8 Murphy ends is pretty typical but there were no hard and fast rules.  I've seen a photo of a car with 5 rib Murphy end panels top and bottom and a three rib dreadnought end panel in the middle.

 

Unfortunately we don't have a plastic model of a stock car in O scale with Murphy or wooden ends.  This is an area where a scratch built, kit or brass model can add some prototypical variety to a freight car roster.

Ed,

 

The Lionel ACF car is a Missouri Pacific car and is pretty accurate.  Lionel actually offered the car in this lettering, Justrains was blowing them out for $27 years ago. 

 

Unfortunately it has the "buzz saw" on a separate letter board.  The MP cars have the logo directly on the car sides; they filled in the boards to make it solid.

 

http://trainweb.org/mopac/mp52599-KC-MO-1940.jpg

 

Oddballs decals offered a set for this car, of which I have one.  When he comes back online with his printer he's the person to get the set from... unless you want my car and decals. 

Rule 292

 

Are you sure that is the prototype for the Lionel car?  It is hard to tell from the photo, especially with the ladder on the B end, but does that car have wood or steel ends?

 

This MP stock car has wood ends.

 

http://trainweb.org/mopac/mp53551-1949.jpg

Hi Ted,

 

I thought there were also steel end cars in the MP car series, somewhere I believe I have a picture.  I'll dig further when I get some time after work this week.

Hi again Ted,

 

Yep, the 54xxx series of those cars had steel ends.

 

I knew I had the picture somewhere!  The Lionel ACF car is pictured in the 1953 Car Builders Cyclopedia as I-GN 54099 with the MP "Buzzsaw" logo. It has a build date of 8-40 and 4/4 steel dreadnaught ends and a steel running board.   And as I had related earlier the logo is  not on a raised board like the Lionel but on the car side where they filled in the slats with wood to stencil the white buzzsaw logo  on.

 

Best narrative that I can find online quickly is the one in the Sunshine Kit flyer which describes the cars with steel ends and steel running boards:

 

http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun54a.pdf

 

The Lionel car is definitely a nice car and a dead-on accurate for the MP cars.

Lionel should have made the "Emperor of the North" smoking Stock Car w/A#1 & Cigarette figures.