Schnabel in O Scale

What would that take in O-gauge, O244 curves?

The HO model can take 22" radius curves, so you'd be looking at probably O-48 as a minimum.

Overhang on the inside of the curve would be quite a different matter.

Rusty

Perhaps not one quite that long, but a suitably shortened one would be quite an interesting car to integrate into consists.  IMHO there is an opportunity to offer something unique to the market, even if it was not precisely prototypical - I'd buy one.

I think O48 would look absurd with this model, not to mention it would clean off the scenery for about 8" on the inside of the curve!

Well it's not exactly like this one but MTH has catalogued one 2012 for 119.95.  20-98870.  Shows six different stores with it in stock. Needs 072 track.

To add to PennsyDave's post, MTH has done quite a few of these: MTH Schnabel Cars

I have the MTH model and it's nice to watch, but John is correct it's O-72 and still needs a lot of consideration through portals and track side real estate.

I would venture to guess that if you wonted a scale model in O then sixteen foot diameter turn around would be needed for it to look right.   

Unless you really have a lot of green acres on your platform even the MTH model, as well done as it is looks best left on the shelf.  

I was going thru some of my old O GRR mags, and I remember seeing an ad for an O Gause car. I'll have to go back and find it.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I think O48 would look absurd with this model, not to mention it would clean off the scenery for about 8" on the inside of the curve!

Never said it would be pretty.   Just extrapolating up from Bachmann's spec.  I imagine the HO model is mighty ungainly on 22" radius.

Even the prototype Schnable's need special routings and are moved as their own train.

Rusty

I have a couple of the MTH cars, but this one in the first post is a LOT longer if it were done in O-scale.  Look at the differences and do the math!   The MTH has three trucks per side, the Bachmann has eight trucks per side.  You're comparing apples and oranges!  It would be at least twice as long as the MTH car, probably about four feet!

rtr12 posted:

To add to PennsyDave's post, MTH has done quite a few of these: MTH Schnabel Cars

They look sharp but 0-72 is still too big for my layout, so I guess these are out for me.  Nonetheless, one (at least, I) can only have so many tank and box cars.  A bit more variety (and scaled to fit "the rest of us" with smaller radii) might be well-received - perhaps the rolling stock equivalents of the RMT BEEP?!?

Rusty Traque posted:

The HO model can take 22" radius curves, so you'd be looking at probably O-48 as a minimum.

Overhang on the inside of the curve would be quite a different matter.

Rusty

That's incorrect. 22" Raius is 44" Diameter. For O sale, it would be abut 44" radius or O-88 but more realistically a car like that would need to be on at least 72" radius (O-144) or even larger to look right, The MTH car is a nice compromise as it will handle 36" radius (O-72).

     I know an OGR forum member built an O scale Schnabel car caring a generator from scratch. It was a few years ago and it was done up for Westinghouse. I contacted him to see if I could pay him to build one for me but he did not want to. My father worked at Westinghouse in East Pittsburgh Pa. and that is why I wanted one that was hauling a generator. My father used to build generators and then he became a hook on moving and flipping them. I believe I have about 10 Schnabel cars but I found out when I ran some of them at Kennywood this past Christmas season with the High Railers that they don't like track switches and kept derailing. When we had our old layout we only had loops and no switches so I guess we will have some nice shelf queens for display. The new layout has 20 switches and I don't think they will make it through them but when I finish laying the track we will see. Choo Choo Kenny

Not sure why the Schnabel car would have a special issue with switches, I only have two of them, but they don't choke on Fastrack switches.

     GRJ The high railers use GG track and Ross switches and every time the Westinghouse Schnabel car went across the switch it would derail. I was told that another member tried to run his Schnabel and his also derailed. I am using the same track and switches so I figured if the cars derailed on the high railers layout they may derail on my layout when I get the tracks finished. I don't know so we will see what happens. Choo Choo Kenny

Interesting, I haven't run one of these at the club with Atlas track and switches, might have to try that.

Kenny and John:

I don’t have any problem running my MTH Westinghouse Schnabel car #203 through the many Gargraves and Ross switches on my layout. 

Also as I’ve reported on this Forum before, I routinely run my Schnabel car around curves on my layout much tighter than 72” in diameter.  I installed self-bent Gargraves flex track on my layout in 1996, four years before MTH came out with that car.  In 2000, as a then Westinghouse employee I had to have that car so I bought it with the understanding that due to the advertised O72 minimum curve restriction, I could only run it on my outside loop which has a minimum curve of O72.  But that loop doesn’t have any sidings and there was no room to add any so I had nowhere to park it.  Therefore every time I wanted to run it I had to lift it up off of the only empty space on the layout large enough to hold it and place it on the track.  And those who have one of these cars know that it’s not easy to put it on the track with each of its 14 axles trying to go in a different direction! 

I did have space for a siding on my inside mainline loop.  But the tightest curve on that inside mainline makes a half-circle with a diameter of 51½” center-rail to center-rail.  However it is an irregular curve with a short straight segment in it so there is one short segment of the curve which is much tighter than 51”.  That one segment is about 9” long and slightly wider in curvature than a piece of Super O curved track (O36) when I hold that section above the Gargraves track.

I test ran the Schnabel on that loop and it successfully negotiated that curve.  I added a siding which turned out it to be long enough for my entire Westinghouse train and I have been running it on that inside loop for 15+ years now usually with the transformer load attached.  I run it very slowly as the prototype would run.   I also had to reposition some block signals and other trackside accessories to allow more horizontal clearance around the curves.  Unless MTH changed the design of the newer Schnabel cars, they should also run on tighter curves than O72. 

I admit that I did break off one of the four holding hooks on the transformer but that happened many years ago when the car split a Gargraves switch due to my operating error!  I was able to super glue the hook back on and it has held ever since.

HTH,

Bill

Does anyone run their MTH Schnabel car without the generator installed?  I'd love to buy one but I have smaller radius curves.  I think it would still look interesting"unloaded" but still don't know if it would handle my cirves in that configuration.

Joe:  I'll try it on tighter curves without the load (btw that's a transformer not a generator) and let you know.  Better yet, what's the tightest curve that you would want to run it on?

Bill

JTrains posted:

rtr12 posted:

To add to PennsyDave's post, MTH has done quite a few of these: MTH Schnabel Cars

They look sharp but 0-72 is still too big for my layout, so I guess these are out for me.  Nonetheless, one (at least, I) can only have so many tank and box cars.  A bit more variety (and scaled to fit "the rest of us" with smaller radii) might be well-received - perhaps the rolling stock equivalents of the RMT BEEP?!?

I'm in the same boat, no O-72 here either, only O-54 & O-63. I limit myself to O-54 and I think this is the only thing I wanted that I have had to pass on so far (I have all diesels only). I really have enough other stuff already, so finally having to pass on something is good.

coach joe posted:

Does anyone run their MTH Schnabel car without the generator installed?  I'd love to buy one but I have smaller radius curves.  I think it would still look interesting"unloaded" but still don't know if it would handle my cirves in that configuration.

You can do it. One of our members ran his without the transformer in place. It shortens the car by about 20 scale feet, but you lose the effect of the car in the train. It doesn't really affect the curve-handling ability as you have to deal with the extra trucks. The seven axles at each end might contribute to the turnout problems some people experience. We never had a turnout problem with Schabels on the club layout.

By the way, the Schnabel car is not designed to be part of a long train, especially up front. Running it up front in a long train over-stresses the hooks for the transformer and they'll eventually break. On the prototype, the Schnabel rides in a special train with an idler car or two, a caboose or two for the crew, and the locomotive(s). They also travel slowly as they sometimes have to shift the load to one side or the other to clear obstacles.

Schnabel Cars are no stranger to overhang:

The MTH cars should run on substantially less than 072. They're particularly sensitive to vertical curves since the trucks out the box aren't fastened with any wiggle room.  That may explain the mentioned derailment-prone examples.

This is my train with two Schnabels. I've since added a third, so the next time this train runs it will be with an extra idler car (probably a Menards long flat). And a lot less "horn spam"--won't do that again.

Eventually I'll get around to scratchbuilding a WECX 801, (which is what the Bachmann model pictured in the original post is trying to be, but is actually a model of a mainland China prototype). I kind-of stalled out at the plan-making stage while deciding whether I should try to replicate the ball-joint that connects the main arms to the rest of the car, or not.

---PCJ

Bill,

I've got 31" and 42" curves.  i didn't realize when I got back into the hobby that the trend was going to bigger, longer more scale products.  I really cant afford to scrap all the old track and turnouts and start over.  I knew it was a transformer but I've working on generators for a power station on the layout and have generatoritis.

Joe

I feel your pain.   I had an O27 layout, but everything I wanted seemed to want larger curves.  So I accumulated O31 and O42 track for a larger layout.  Before that got built, I realized that wasn't large enough either!   Now I'm going O72 and larger.

coach joe posted:

Bill,

I've got 31" and 42" curves.  i didn't realize when I got back into the hobby that the trend was going to bigger, longer more scale products.  I really cant afford to scrap all the old track and turnouts and start over.  I knew it was a transformer but I've working on generators for a power station on the layout and have generatoritis.

Joe

Hi Joe:

Well I have SOME good news for you and others in your situation.  I ran my MTH Westinghouse Schnabel #203 WITHOUT THE LOAD on Super O curves (O36) on the upper level of my layout and it ran fine without any binding.  I took it around 8 consecutive curved sections (240 degrees) at one end of the layout as well as a reverse curve which is separated by one straight section and it had no problems.  The hooks on the sides of each “half” of the car were both connected.  If anyone needs visual proof, I can shoot a video and post it. 

As expected, the car would NOT negotiate those O36 curves with the load.

However, I do not own any Lionel O-31 curved track to test it on.  I do have some Realtrax O-31 curves in a tunnel but I don’t want to take a chance test running in that tunnel as I won’t be able to watch it and stop it before something bad happens.        

So you should be able to run an MTH Schnabel car without the load on your O42 curves assuming that the newer MTH Schnabel cars are exactly the same structurally as my “old” one from 2000.  The real one probably ran close to 50% of the time unloaded as it would likely return to the factory empty after delivering one of those new large transformers to a customer's site.  Those members that have O36 FasTrack should also be able to run it without the load. 

HTH,

Bill

RailRide posted:

Eventually I'll get around to scratchbuilding a WECX 801, (which is what the Bachmann model pictured in the original post is trying to be, but is actually a model of a mainland China prototype).

---PCJ 

PCJ:

You’re correct, as WECX #801 has 36 axles, that HO model has “only” 32 and there are no 32-axle Schnabels in service in the USA.  

A few years ago Forum member PRO HOBBY posted photos of an O Scale model he had made of WECX 801.  According to his post, the model is over 58” long without a load.  By contrast our MTH models of a 14-axle car are less than 20” long without the load. 

Here’s a link to that thread:

Click here: WORLD'S LARGEST O SCALE RAILCAR MODEL??? | O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum

Bill

Thanks Bill.  I glad you didn't try to run it through the tunnel with the tighter curves.  It would have been a pain if there were issues inside the tunnel.

GRJ, 027! My story exactly.  I had some Super O from when A neighbor moved to California when I was about 12.  When I got back into trains I bought a cheap Lionel 027 starter to see if any of our childhood stuff still worked.  When I went from under the tree to a full time layout I got some bad advice from a local store that sold trains on the side and went 027 instead of 0, although regular 0 still wouldn't be big enough for today's offerings.

WftTrains posted:

RailRide posted:

Eventually I'll get around to scratchbuilding a WECX 801, (which is what the Bachmann model pictured in the original post is trying to be, but is actually a model of a mainland China prototype).

---PCJ 

PCJ:

You’re correct, as WECX #801 has 36 axles, that HO model has “only” 32 and there are no 32-axle Schnabels in service in the USA.  

A few years ago Forum member PRO HOBBY posted photos of an O Scale model he had made of WECX 801.  According to his post, the model is over 58” long without a load.  By contrast our MTH models of a 14-axle car are less than 20” long without the load. 

Here’s a link to that thread:

Click here: WORLD'S LARGEST O SCALE RAILCAR MODEL??? | O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum

Bill

Yep, that was the inspiration for my own effort, although I intend to build mine out of sheet styrene. I bought a copy of the plans he offered at one time...and they weren't detailed enough to even duplicate his wood+balsa model. So whatever I come up with will likely outshine his effort detail-wise, as I'm building my own set of plans based on videos and photographs of the prototype plus PDF instruction manuals provided with one of the HO resin kits (I might've actually purchased one of them in order to scratchbuild an O scale version if they had not sold out first)

---PCJ

I would not want anything longer than the MTH WECX203.  Here it is with a non-prototypical Westinghouse box car and a prototypical Westinghouse caboose.

I have also picked up a MTH Pennsy gondola with Westinghouse labeled crates.  But a brand-new looking Pennsy gondola would not be very prototypical with the WECX203 since this Schnabel was not built until long after the Pennsy flag fell.  But have picked up a Conrail and Southern gondola for more prototypical consist.  The Southern gondola would fit in for when one of the main output transformers had to be replaced at one of the Nuclear Station I worked at.

Ron

Some scratchbuilt schnabel cars:

The HEPX 200 and the Emmert BBCX1000 cars are 20 axle schnabels.

Prototype photos also shown.

HEPX 200:

EMMERT BBCX1000:

Wow! Those are nice. You do some nice work ProHobby. 

Chris 

Another scratchbuilt schnabel:

This one is the WECX 801.  Probably the largest prototype schnabel in the world.

The 36 axle O scale model is about 6 feet in length with load and was built to exact O scale dimensions.

PRRronbh posted:

I would not want anything longer than the MTH WECX203.  Here it is with a non-prototypical Westinghouse box car and a prototypical Westinghouse caboose.

I have also picked up a MTH Pennsy gondola with Westinghouse labeled crates.  But a brand-new looking Pennsy gondola would not be very prototypical with the WECX203 since this Schnabel was not built until long after the Pennsy flag fell.  But have picked up a Conrail and Southern gondola for more prototypical consist.  The Southern gondola would fit in for when one of the main output transformers had to be replaced at one of the Nuclear Station I worked at.

 

Ron

Ron, 

Very nice! I purchased the same schnabel and boxcar a couple weeks ago. It seems like I was very lucky to find the boxcar. I hope that someday I can find the caboose as well. Thanks for the info on the gondola, I will have to make one and added it to this consist.

Here are pictures and video of mine being pulled by 4012 big boy, since its the only engine I currently have out and haven't started my layout yet.

Chris

pro hobby posted:

Another scratchbuilt schnabel:

This one is the WECX 801.  Probably the largest prototype schnabel in the world.

The 36 axle O scale model is about 6 feet in length with load and was built to exact O scale dimensions.

 

AWESOME!!!!! 

Here is one of my favorite cars.  It is a 20 axle CPOX820 schnabel.

Here is a rather small schnabel with a very large load.  It is a 12 axle CEBX100.

Here is the MTH Premier ABB PDTX schnabel car.

My model has been modified to improve tracking. The original model tended to derail on curves because the pivot would bind and tended to rock side to side

Note: When operating my car without the transformer I use a custom made drawbar instead of the clips on the sides which seems to improve operation.

Before and after photos shown.

Pro Hobby,

Did you make all those custom schnabels? If so, what is the process to make one. I wouldn't mind trying to do one myself.

Chris 

crood58 posted:

Pro Hobby,

Did you make all those custom schnabels? If so, what is the process to make one. I wouldn't mind trying to do one myself.

Chris 

All these models are made from wood.  Styrene plastic could also be used but the cost of materials is much greater.

Sketches are made of the O scale model based on prototype drawings and dimensions.  Then cardboard templates are used to trace the various shapes.

Since both ends of these cars are virtually the same every part is duplicated.

Note:  I have O scale models for many other similar cars including massive flatcars.  Photos of all of these models have been posted on OGR over the past couple of years.  Every model is based on manufacturer drawings and scale dimensions.

See typical flatcar model photos.