Sellers at train shows

1. Just because "YOU" are the one selling it, doesn't make it worth MSRP even though its used. Don't mark things up beyond MSRP and then offer a discount that still makes things overpriced. If your offended by a lower offering, then feel free to pack your stuff back up at the end of the show and take it home. If i'm gonna pay full price I'll go to an authorized dealer and have a warranty.

 

2. Just because a seller is an ABC, XYZ, club member for 20 years doesn't mean that your honest, nor does it guarantee you know what you are talking about.

 

3. Preying on "newcomers" by touting your ABC or XYZ club member status and selling them a piece of junk because they don't know any better, is certainly the best way to deter newcomers to this dwindling hobby.

 

4. I'll second the friendly vendor, if your miserable, why do you even like/ sell toys in the first place.

 

I'm sure theres plenty more, but I for the most part quit wasting my time on shows.

All the good train shows must be in the Midwest. 

 

Art

haven't tested it = doesn't work and probably never will.

I have attended many, many train shows, always as a buyer. I am sure there are horror stories between sellers and buyers, but my observation is the vast majority of buyers and sellers are very well behaved. Good manors on both sides of the table usually results on good sales.

I have been to many train shows, the best are usually up north and not in Florida.

 

One train show I went to as a seller the guy a couple spaces down from me claimed he had an H.O. engine swiped from him. He was gone away from his area for a few minutes at a time every five to ten minutes, so how could he keep track of stuff?

 

I have made some good buys at train shows. Some of the people selling have some low end stuff that should have been left at home and some have very high price items.

From experience the high price stuff goes home with the seller.

 

You need to know what things are worth or have a price guide book so that you don't over pay for something.

 

Lee Fritz

Gentlemen,

    I look at this situation in this way, here in the Pittsburgh, Pa area we have some decent train shows with mostly nice vendors, most people going to the train shows are respectful of the vendors sales items, even the children.  Most mothers and fathers here do not let their children run wild, if something happens to get broken by accident the parents pay for the item.  Any vendor telling a child, when the child is accompanied by his parents, not to touch anything on his tables, looses my business for good.  I remember the good train shows growing up where vendors actually handed their engines & rolling stock to me as a child, to look over and ask my Dad if we could afford to purchase it, course in the early 50's most of it was Tin Plate, but still it was expensive stuff to us, at that time.  I do understand that todays children are not growning up under the same discipline I did as a child either, still children are the life blood of our hobby, without them our hobby is gone forever.  I never tell a vendor they are asking to much, I learned how to horse trade at the train shows as a young boy.  I am pretty darn good at it too, just as Harry Neil who happens to be a world class horse trader of trains, he still calls me the train bandit, from time to time.   

PCRR/Dave 

Too many people have no respect for other people's property, and that includes attendees at train shows. I'd never consider selling my stuff at a train show where some buffoon would have an opportunity to damage my goods. 

We have had a mixed experience with train shows, my son (7) and my daughter (8) normally go with me.

 

There is a TCA show in Cincinnati several times a year, we've been about a dozen times, since 2009. Always very small, just a row or two of tables in a gym. The kids like to go and look for some treasure we must have, one vendor sells part, my daughter always buys a tiny Santa, I believe they are for some sort of operating car. We have a nice half hour or so before heading to Cracker Barrel. The vast majority of the show is PW Lionel, the dealers seem to be the same people time after time, we always buy something, normally not much, small parts, oil, smoke fluid, another tiny Santa. The dealers are all super nice and friendly, I cannot say enough good about the warm hearts I've seen there.

 

Our other experience has been a few trips up the road to Dayton, for much, much larger shows. I have come prepared to buy, the kids are rested, well feed, and get snacks at the half way mark, also get to ride the little in door train -- so they are happy campers. There we're seen the don't touch, don't get too close, don't look at, don't even think about it, type folks. I would say about a third seem to have this as their mindset, no kids, no one under 50, no one not willing to pay whatever price they are asking, etc. We won't be back.

CinciWest,

   This attitude from the vendors at some train shows is why kids would much rather play with computer stuff than trains, a young father like you will not tolerate this kind of attitude from the vendors, thousands of cildren are driven away in just this manner.

I do not blame you one bit for not returning to that particular show.  These are the type of vendors that are killing our hobby, it really is a shame.

PCRR/Dave

I have to agree with Pine Creek Railroad that we have to teach our children to respect the belongings of others. I think vendors should let children touch their product when supervised. Toy trains for the most part are made to be played with but not abused. When children come into our store, I will let them run the trains. This sales technique has worked well through the years.

Thanks

Pat

jmiller320,

The Greenberg show comes to Monroeville (right next to Penn Hills) twice a year, usually in January & July.  I picked up some nice stuff at good prices.

Mark

Just a slight correction - Greenberg holds 3 shows a year in Monroeville, the third being in November.

 

Andy

So,

 

Just what do you do when a child picks up something, oh like a brass freight car, and drops it, and the parents scold the child (say under 12) and say to you I hope it wasn't damaged too much and walk away?

I have to agree with some of the others here, telling a kid they can't touch or play with a train doesn't give them much incentive to want to participate in the hobby. Not a good way to promote the hobby.

 

On the other hand kids should be taught to respect other peoples property and get permission before they do touch something that isn't theirs. Many adults still need to learn this as well.

 

I also understand a seller not wanting someone handling their trains at a show. If people had more respect for others property, maybe that would not be such an issue? Maybe the kids would feel better about trains and want to get into the hobby? 

 

I see people at my LHS grab stuff all the time and they have 'Do not touch, ask for assistance' signs on the stuff, mostly on the new, expensive engines on display.  I know the owner fairly well, sometimes he will hand me a new engine and say "here take a look at this one".  I would not think of just walking over and picking one up without asking first, just out of respect.

Last week at the Wilmington Show I saw a few children that their parent had bought a HO train car.  Probably only paid a dollar, but it reminded me of a post from a while ago where someone was accused of running their train on the sidewalk and not on track.

Thanks for the information about the shows in Monroeville.  I have to plan a trip out that way sometime soon.  We still have a few Christmas gifts for the kids that I can't sent through the USPS.

All three of my boys attended train shows with me as they were growing up.  Each learned train show etiquette by watching me.

When I look over the items on a table, my hands are behind me.  If I want to look at something, I always ask permission.  Each of the boys adopted this practice and followed it at train shows, on layout tours and even when visiting relatives.

I'll digress for a moment.  I had a great aunt who had what my mother used to refer to as "flat spot disease", meaning if she had a flat spot anywhere in the house, she had to set something there.  In the aunts case, it was porcelain figurines.

My oldest was about three one time we visited and as we walked in, his hands automatically went behind his back and stayed there as he strolled around the house looking at each of the figures.  My great aunt was stunned he was so disciplined and even commented he was better behaved than many adults who had looked at her collection.

Back to trains.  Each of my boys learned how to negotiate a purchase with a seller and each learned that when they couldn't get the deal they wanted, they should still thank the seller for his time before moving on.

None of this is rocket science, of course.  It is simply good manners.

Curt

I just find sellers that are friendly and trade with them. I choose to not sell because I do not have the patience to deal with the grumpy folks and their offspring. I got burned once on ebay for selling a couple of old plug door boxcars and the trucks were held on by nuts and bolts. The buyer went nuts stating I was ripping him off, falsely selling, etc. All of this for $7.50. I refunded his money plus money for his time and trouble to throw it away according to him. Had this person been in front of me I would have likely said stuff that wasn't worth the loss of $7.50.

 

Lesson learned: There are good and bad people everywhere so be a little cautious and find the good ones.

don't forget the 4,,,,tca shows in cranberry pa, at the sherdon 4 points,,open to the public @10a to 3p!

Jim,

   Andy and the other Pitt Hi Railers always have a beautiful layout and run some very expensive trains at the Monroeville Greenburg train shows, I smile each and every time I see them hand a TMCC remote or a Legacy control to a child, they do every thing they can to keep the kids interest in our hobby, they also put on a great show at Kennywood Park each year now, it is not very far from Penn HIlls.  The Adamsburg Fire Hall has a real nice smaller train show each year also, about 15 miles from Penn Hills, this particular train show usually has some real good deals, especially on rebuilt transformers and rolling stock.  Parking is tough however.  One further comment, parents must understand that train shows are not baby sitting clinics, parents who simply drop their kids off at train shows without any supervision, while they go do other shopping, or go out to eat some place else, wanting a break from their children

have become big problems in some areas.  I do believe any child under 15 years old

should be accompanied by an adult, these vendors are not baby sitters, they pay to have their tables at each and every train show, IMO every train show should post signs about unattended children, if the parents are not in the building the young children should be turned over to the local police, for them to contact the parents and return their under age children to them.  It is not a train shows job to baby sit children.  The Greenburg Monroeville train show in November is usually very very good, everybody is getting ready for Christmas.

 

Proper Train Show Etiquette from both vendors and shoppers makes for a great train show. #1 rule, always ask permission from the owner before you touch something that does not belong to you.

    

PCRR/Dave

Look, you keep the treasures away from the edge of the table. If kids show interest in an item explain what it is and pick it up and give it to them.  If it gets damaged SO WHAT!

 

Selling the hobby is very important and will do more to protect our "investments" than any train car.

quote:

Selling the hobby is very important and will do more to protect our "investments" than any train car.

 

IMHO, its very easy to tell someone else to take a financial hit to "sell the hobby".

I have been selling for several years at shows and have been attending shows with my father since I was old to walk.  Being a child my father always told me not to touch anything unless the table holder said it was ok to do so.  As an adult to will look at and pick up items on a sellers table unless it is a very expensive item.  For fear that I might damage it.  As a seller if you have an item that is worth a lot of money and don't want it man handled the put a sign on it that reads ask first before picking up.  I have never had such an item and always tell buyers to feel free to pick up an item I have for sale.  I am always honest with any item I have for sale.  If something doesn't work I will point it out. I always encourage potential buyers to make an offer, the worst I will say is no.  Being pleasant when selling brings back customers. 

My kids are taught not to touch anything without asking me and without me asking the vendor.  Any violations of this rule and I take them out of the show, or store, quickly.  I agree that there is too much of this what I call soft, new-age style parenting.  I don't buy into it and my two boys have learned, and will continue to learn, to be respectful of others.  That being said, when people display hostility reflexively, that is a problem and they won't get our business.  Those folks have become too jaded and should stay home.

 

A few words on prices:  I too have found that too many folks, both at shows and on this forum, are delusional when it comes to pricing.  If I am buying something from an entity that is not a dealer, and is not in business, the item has to be substantially discounted.  If I see a seller with prices that are above, at, or not much below what I could pay for the item at a dealer, I won't even slow down walking.  Yes, most people are likely honest, but just because someone is a "respected" member here or a TCA member doesn't mean that they are not dishonest or a chiseler.  That may sound harsh, but it has been my experience that many people, unfortunately, cannot be trusted.

 

Finally, as to the kids breaking anything (Someone asked this above):  this has happened to us, and it was a pure accident -- someone bumped my then four-year-old with a backpack and he lost his balance momentarily, knocking a well-used postwar item to the floor.  We paid for the item, immediately, apologized, and moved along.  My son and I repaired it together and it because a good opportunity for a life lesson. 

quote:

A few words on prices:  I too have found that too many folks, both at shows and on this forum, are delusional when it comes to pricing.

 

I agree. There are a lot of folks who price their merchandise high, and tote their goods back and forth from show to show. And each time they unpack and repack their goods, they become just a tiny bit more shopworn.

But on the other hand, when items are priced too low, people automatically assume they is something wrong with the piece.

 

When I am buying I don't worry about it. If they item is somewhat close to what I am willing to pay, I might make an offer. If the price is totally out of line, I don't bother.

 

When I am selling, I price my stuff to move. But, as I posted above, a low price does not guarantee a sale.

 

I find that for Modern Era stuff, I do best buying on EBay.

I applaud you for this, but I would not place too much blame (or any, really) on you or your child for that one.  No one can expect a young kid to be able to react to being knocked over by an adult. 

 

The guy who knocked into your child really should have been on the hook for that one, but I'm guessing he was long gone by the time anyone realized what happened. 

 

Glad your child wasn't hurt.

 

-Dave

I don't touch anything unless I think Im going to buy it.

tried selling at a show once. started setting up stuff sat

morning and the other dealers bought me out before the show opened

at 10am. I lived close, so I brought more stuff sun morn and same thing, the

other dealers bought me out before the show opened, so my table sat empty

sat and sun during the show. I got to run trains all day and not worry about

stuff on the table.

...parents who simply drop their kids off at train shows without any supervision, while they go do other shopping, or go out to eat some place else, wanting a break from their children have become big problems in some areas. 

 

I must live in a cave.  This happens?  I can't imagine dropping my kids off alone at a train show due to their safety and security.  Train shows are my opportunity to bond with them more.

 

Ron

 

had an incident at a show when I first started to take my son to shows.

he was 5 yra old at the time (he is now 28). we walked by a table and my sone was

going to grab something off the table. And I went to take his hand and tell him he

cant touch and the dealer was right in his face screaming

"DONT TOUCH ANYTHING ON MY TABLE". I said not to worry, we wont. and consequently that dealer had nobody around his table all day long and I don't know if he even made a sale. His stuff was very hi end. way outta price range of the average collector/operator.

My experience at setting up in shows for several years (not lately due to the lack of

available stuff that can be resold at a profit), is that adults have less respect for

your property than kids.  I had one mental vegetable over the age of majority open the packaging on an old collectible unopened item, and left when I yelled at him, as that possibly lowered its value to a collector.

My Favorite seller sign:

 

Unattended Children Will Be Given a Cup of Espresso and a FREE PUPPY!

 

Dave

I buy and sell at shows, both open and TCA. I find the problem is the same at both types of shows. Buyers who want to handle everything, open every box, and stop in the middle of the aisle to chat or look. Attendees in wheel chairs and motorized scooters have been more than rude ramming into people, and stopping in the middle of the aisle when there is plenty of room to move closer to the table. People who are rude enough to pass gas then walk away leaving me to deal with their stink. People who want items for less than 1/4 of what its worth. People that attend with little kids then do not properly control them. I've seen it all.

 

All it takes is a little common sense, some business sense, and some courtesy.

 

When I am buying and looking.

 

1.) Always ask to pick up and look.

2.) Always ask to open a box and preferably let the seller do it for you.

3.) Bargain in good faith without snide remarks or derogatory comments. I you think the prices are nuts, walk away and keep your comments to your self.

4.) Step out of the middle of the aisle, so as to not block people trying to get through.

5.) When I bring my grandson, he is given strict orders not to touch, and not to constantly beg for everything he see's. He will have his hand held of he breaks the rules. He is usually allowed to look at something if the seller or myself present it to him to look at in hand.

 

When I am selling.

 

1.) I always try my best to make sure the item is in the best condition possible. Everything is cleaned, serviced and should operate as intended.

2.) Price items fairly. Start at price guide numbers FOR THE GRADE or a little below. Pricing everything at Excellent values when they are not is fruitless and results in NO SALES.

3.) Be willing to bargain. I want to sell trains, not drag them around show after show.

4.) Interact with people. Talk to them. Tell them stories about your items. Let them know your open to negotiation. Tell them the items are serviced and ready to go. Invite them to test the item. Occasionally you'll get a talker, politely excuse yourself and move to another customer who looks like they are interested in something.

5.) Don't get upset with kids coming by, just keep an eye on them.

6.) Set up smart. Place expensive and nicer items to the back where little hands cannot get to them. Place junky stuff and odds and ends near the front so it doesn't matter of a child grabs it.

7.) Always remove everything from their boxes. Buyers want to see them, so be ready and have them out and ready for inspection.

8.) If sellers are blocking your aisle, move from one end of your table(s) to the other going right through them saying excuse me gotta get through, please move aside thank you. Many times they move to the side or move on.

9.) Lurkers are also part of the show. Someone who stands in front of your table for a long time looking. Sometimes they leaf through a catalog or papers you have. Start talking to them, many times it makes them uncomfortable and they move on. Other times, it triggers them to make the buy.

10.) If they say they can get it cheaper on E-Bay, ask why they didn't pick it up, that was a bargain, did they get out bid? Many times this stops them cold and you know they were playing you.

 

 

Gandy

 

Gandy,

You hit the nail on the head......There are many things at shows that upset each one of us. If everyone of us would do just as you stated, WE (buyers AND sellers) would have better times at train shows.

Gandy,

under "Buying", I like item #3. if I see something I like or might consider

buying, If the price is way outta my range, I simply move on and make no

comments. If its close to my price range then I will make an offer.

9 times outta 10 when I make an offer, the sale is made. many dealers

want to sell and not carry their items from show to show.

One thing I'm seeing a lot of is, one bad experience and you're *DONE*.

 

One bad ebay transaction, so no more ebay, and ebay is all bad.

One bad show, so no more shows, and all shows are bad.

One bad private sale, all selling is bad, never selling anything ever again.

One bad private buy, all buying is bad, never buying anything ever again...

 

Think about it, does it really make sense to react that way?

 

There are a lot of dumb, ignorant, inconsiderate, and outright malicious people in this world. You're going to come across them. You're going to have to deal with them. You can't let them run your life.

this doesn't have to do with a show, but a hobby shop.

My father-in-law use to live near Albany New York

many years ago(the hobby shop has since closed).

We went in to look at trains. He had all old postwar Lionel.

we were looking at the junker boxes of stuff and a guy came

up behind us and asked to see the Mobile tank car that was in the box

we were looking in. I handed it to him, and he mentioned he didn't want

to pay the $12 listed(realistically it was only worth about $5). I told

him to go offer the owner $8. he did and the owner said NO, in fact its not for sale

and he put it under the counter.

I went up and offered him $20 for about $25-$28 of stuff I had picked out.

he said no, in fact nothings for sale. everybody get outta my store.

we stood out in the parking lot wondering what just happened.

The good definitely out weighs the bad!

Ive had some bad experiences, But 99%

of the time, Ive gotten great deals, made great friends

and have had wonderful fun, taking my board to shows

and running, fixing and testing trains. What other hobby

has so much fun!!!

Popi,

   The general public says train hobby people are different than most, we have a lot more fun, especially us Tin Plate people.  It maybe that we never really grew up, especially us boys.  They call it toys for little boys, for a reason, you never really grow out of loving to play with your trains, and tend to congregate with like minded people.

PCRR/Dave