Selling versus Speculating

There are plenty of people who buy and sell trains.

My wife and I used to attend a weekly general merchandise auction around 25-30 years ago. These auctions were often estate liquidations, and would have everything from jelly jars to genuine antiques. A significant number of the bidders were antique dealers, from as far away as New York City (about 140 miles).

We didn't care about bidding against them, we figured that if we won, we got the lot at one bid higher than a dealer was willing to pay, so the price was close to "wholesale".

When you see what he sells it for, keep in mind he has to pay 10% onsite buyers premium, 4% internet Buyers Premium and Shipping.

I bought something a few weeks ago from Stouts for $375. After all the premiums and Shipping, I paid $467.74

And if he pays with a credit card you pay 17% more for that. I send a check at that rate!

So his $605 was at least $700

It doesnt bother, me about the flipping of trains, I cant figure out the dead time,

that will happen, here, for delivery,   but oh yea,  the 1st comment ,  well it is huge right here on this forum !!!!!!!!!!!!!

• How does a credit card add 17% to the total?

If you pay by Credit card, they charge you a 17% Buyers Premium for using a credit card.

there are a lot of hidden fees with this online auction house.

It doesn't, 14% buyers premium + 3% credit card fee= 17%. Buyer pays transaction costs and usual premium.

No issue there, $625 for that set with the boxes seemed like a good deal, probably double on the Bay.  I stopped buying to re-sell because I was keeping it all and not selling! It's an expensive game unless you can stomach letting some go at a loss.  

I find this interesting.  Of course, anyone who buys a train can do what they want with it, including re-selling it immediately.  But I'll be interested to see how this works out for them, I'm inclined to agree that this seller may not be very experienced.  

The sense among professional sellers that I have heard expressed several times is that it is difficult to get good prices for "high-end" pieces on eBay.  The auctions at the auction houses on the other hand are attended by serious colllectors and dealers, the quality of the items tends to be higher because they are often liquidating collections; and the prices tend to be higher as a result.  Of course there are always exceptions, but this seems to be the general wisdom.  And I have to say that this also corresponds with my experience so far, I have bought things at Stout that you would just never even see on eBay.

So buying at an auction and re-selling on the bay seems to me to be backwards.  But who knows?  Anything is possible.

Fun bit of detective work Tim, thanks for flagging this.  

Yes, intriguing.  Maybe you can follow this and post again?

quote:

The sense among professional sellers that I have heard expressed several times is that it is difficult to get good prices for "high-end" pieces on eBay.

I happen to like the City of Denver, so don't take this the wrong way: I don't think it is considered "high-end" by most collectors.

I find this to be pretty interesting as well.  I took part in this auction, it was only my second one, the first was in January.  I like the idea of possibly having a second shot at some lots that I missed out on.  One lot I wish I kept bidding on was #2242, set number 350 which was a maroon 8 and green 32 and 36 passenger cars, they were C9.  I bid on this lot but gave up too soon as I had just won a lot that was a couple earlier and it was the most I ever paid for a toy train so I was a little hesitant to keep bidding on the 350 set.  I'm pretty happy with the lots I won and what I had to pay, I think my best deal was a 262 engine and tender that are C7 for $160 when other similar 262s in this same auction all went for over $400.  Maybe all the high rollers were taking a bathroom break

John.

John. 

I've got them all bookmarked on both auction sites. I'll update when I get back from vacation on Wednesday night. I'm interested to see bid price vs bid price. But, like many pointed out, there's fees on both ends of the transactions here, so I'll try to figure that out too.

As I said, it's the owner's business to do with their property as they see fit. I've attended auctions in person (NETTE and Ralston's) and I've seen some dealers there. But some of these lots were bought over the internet according to Liveuactions.com, and as CW pointed out, it's not like this stuff was a steal either. But, we'll see.

Tim

People have been doing this since the inception of Ebay.  This is like reporting on the invention of the wheel.  With all respect, STOUT/Live auctioneers spell out all your HIDDEN fees.  If they were hidden, you couldn't have known enough to make the comment.  One word of caution...phone Greg Stout about particular items, and ask him to examine items that have a lot of importance to you so as to verify the written description. Does everyone know GREG donates an item every year to be auctioned at the National TCA Convention??  Just wanted everyone to be aware of this gesture.  I was the successful bidder on a HIGH GRADE 2332 with rubber-stamped heralds at the Baltimore Convention.  NO PREMIUM either, plus my wife was looking all around the room to see who bid the $500...she couldn't see the card held over her head LOL!!!  Ron B.  

I consider this set to be HIGH END, as it is hard to get in this condition with all the boxes.  I have attended countless auctions online/in person, and have seen people squander more on lower condition examples of this set. It was on my radar for sure. Nice train!!!

You can judge that for yourself HERE.

Collectors who do not scour Ebay are leaving a rock unturned.  High end trains get high end prices, not dependent on where you buy or sell!  Enough said???

quote:

I consider this set to be HIGH END, as it is hard to get in this condition with all the boxes.

I think you have more expertise in tinplate than I.

It does have a few boo-boos. Did you see the set in person?

It looks pretty good in the pictures, but I am not very good at judging trains by their photos.

Never saw in person, and I missed this auction due to getting home late from nite work.  The description and photos seemed to be in sync with each other.  It's a set I would like to get but it's not in my top 10 by any means.  This set is not rare, but I think it is desirable.  The vestibules and die cast are usually in bad shape.  Our definitions of high end probably differ.  I would have called Greg Stout for a more detailed description. Not an expert in tinplate, but I sit with the guys who deal in it to pick their brains.  I try to buy Prewar in sets to minimize the chance of getting snookered.  It is certainly not foolproof, but if I buy in sets, I can compare condition of several items to see if all match in patina etc.  CONSISTENCY is what I look for...paint on exterior matching paint on interior, etc.  I am teaching myself with the help of others more proficient.  Prewar tinplate is an ACQUIRED taste from 40 years of collecting Postwar.  I have lost focus.  I like it all!!!  Ron B.

I have been checking ebay daily, and been buying from Stout since around 2001. And I have never seen a lot won on Saturday, and then listed on Sunday, recycling Stout's photos.

Sorry if I wasted your time with old news though.

Tim

jsrfo, thanks for your insight.  It's from people like you on this site that I learn the most from.  By the way, was the person you mention who is selling on ebay present for the auction or was he an internet bidder, just wondering?

Thanks, John.

Internet buyer.

I'd like to correct myself. I stated that it was not that nice. Compared to a C-8 example with crisp boxes, no, but I do not want to say that the set wasn't decent. It is, and for the money, I'd say he got a good value. Actually it is quite presentable.

It will make a nice addition to someone's collection. It may be 75% or better of what that C-9 set looks like, but at a great savings, so if it fits within someone's collection and budget, it will be a good addition.

I just hate to read my words and  find I've dropped a negative on someone else's stuff. I can be opinionated.

You just have to look at things from a supply point of view. There are some trains that are not scarce. Those type of items are collectible, but condition, at least in my mind needs to be high, boxed, etc. Now say you find an original Stephen Girard green City of Denver that's maybe C-5 or C-6. Price goes up because they are extremely scarce.

Look at Ives. I have just started being interested, and it's culture shock to realize that you just cannot find Ives in a condition that you find prewar Lionel in. I have a lot to learn about it. That's a good thing. Interests change, so the hobby never really gets stale.

I might be mistaken on this one, please correct me if I am. Is there not a gentleman who was a heavy hitting eBay type doing "Federal "time over something like this? I wish I could remember? It seems like the Postmaster General got a piece of him, also. All of transpired within the past fifteen-years.

Like what? Flipping trains?

There are some interesting items on this list.  I wouldn't ever have guessed that a Lionel 3454 Merchandise Car in c-6 condition would sell for $4527!  Since there were several bidders, this must have been a pretty rare item as several folks seemed interested in buying it.

In my observations over the years, eBay is like any other auction.  Lots of items sell for what they are worth. Of course, there is always individual items that sell for more than what is expected and sometimes items sell for less than expected. 

Jim

"American Pickers" did not fair as well on their prewar Lionel pick.

What is a heavy-hitting" Ebay type???  I buy and sell on Ebay.  it's how I afford my trains Pappy.  It is not a Money Laundering Deal!!!  There are some very nice and honest God-fearing people on Ebay, though if you get caught acknowledging that on this Forum, you may not be very popular.

If a collector spends five hours at his keyboard waiting for a set like this to fall thru the cracks at a decent price, then he deserves to be compensated on Ebay!  That's all I got to say(Forest Gump).

I'm sure any attempt on my part to try this would end equally as bad and probably much worse!  I have gotten a few 'deals' on ebay and I would have been money ahead to have just bought it new at MSRP!

quote:

 I wouldn't ever have guessed that a Lionel 3454 Merchandise Car in c-6 condition would sell for $4527!  Since there were several bidders, this must have been a pretty rare item as several folks seemed interested in buying it.

The car is very rare with red lettering.
I guess there are still some collectors out there.

I read on the internet they were all dead.  Isn't everything on internet true?

That's what the girl dating the French model said on TV, "they can't put anything on the internet that isn't true"