Show us your small to medium upper level

Leroof, as you know, my layout is currently on one level. However, I originally intended to make an upper level on the far left side of my layout (as one faces the layout from the stairs leading to the basement), and may take on the challenging project of building that upper level in the future. 

It would involve eliminating or substantially changing the little town that I currently have there, and making a bigger and more interesting mountain with a  tunnel through it on the bottom (as currently exists) and a 2nd tunnel through the mountain 7 to 10 inches above the lower level track. There would be graduated trestle on the outer loop going up as the train approaches the mountain. It would be a very gentle grade because I have at least 10 feet of straight track as the outer loop of track approaches the mountain.  Also, there would be an overpass just before the mountain where the higher outer loop crosses over the lower inner loop. 

So, I am very interested in what others have to say about your topic. Arnold

Oh, and one more thing  my upper level described above would be relatively small, and only on the far left side of my layout where the mountain is.

As they say, "a picture is worth a thousand words," and it follows that a video is worth ten thousand words. 

This video shows the Lackawanna freight train approaching the mountain on the currently existing outer loop, and New Haven passenger train approaching the mountain on the currently existing inner loop.

If I made the contemplated layout renovation,  the crossing gates (which I like a lot)  would need to be removed from their current location. I guess there are usually plusses and minuses with most substantial layout modifications.  Arnold

Arnold, I am absolutely mesmerized playing this video over and over again! Post war Hypnotic trance....

I know you have the ingenuity and fortitude to expand to a second level.   Your layout is a masterpiece of operating joy! I would not modify it.

 OK, just my current 2 cents.  But payday is coming.......if you are motivated to undertake this I will help in anyway I possibly can. Lol. Train brained again.

Here’s my small upper level. 1 ramp/hill/climb to second level loop with reversing route. The ramp starts on the right side and continues up the backside. roughly 10ft total. Rise is the same height as postwar trestles. 

Leroof posted:

well, I am contemplating an additional plan for an upper level postwar like phase.

Nothing too fancy, I may just go with a curvy point to point arrangement with a passing siding or a return loop at two ends.

it seems to me that one needs a considerable lead way to climb to a second second level effectively. Only have small engines all with magnatraction easy to climb graduated PW  tressle a possibility.

i am motivated quite often by what others have done in a smal to medium space. Show me (us) your second level photos, movies, plans etc.

thanks much and by the way best for 2019, it's been a great year here at the forum.

leroof.

 W

In a small space, with a point to point style, why don't you consider an elevated track with no incline. Say one end of the layout to the other with a plateau at each end. You could use Lionel pw trestle set #111.

Steve

JD2035RR , Arnold, & RESCUED TRAINS,  thanks  for your input. 

I think dogbone double elevated separate layout would work. 

I have one 111 tressle set. I guess I would need to get a couple more sets. I have noticed that many people have elevated the 111 pieces a bit higher than the standard height. Is that because equipment height varies so much? 

I have always liked the look of the  vintage Marx sturdy metal upper level tressle. Expensive and somewhat difficult to find in large numbers, they are too short for standard O Gage, not too practical. I thought I could somewhat replicate them taller in aluminum with experimentation. Anyway I will draw up a simple dogbone plan on top o what I have first.

Some ideas of my upper levels and upper-upper level.

I’m copying fellow forum member franktrain’s use of shelf standards for my new elevated section.  Very cheap to make, and can be cut to whatever length you need, which is  allowing me to hug uneven terrain around my mountain instead of on level ground.  Kind of has that Marx look to it as well.  Here’s a picture he posted a while back. 

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

As they say, "a picture is worth a thousand words," and it follows that a video is worth ten thousand words. 

This video shows the Lackawanna freight train approaching the mountain on the currently existing outer loop, and New Haven passenger train approaching the mountain on the currently existing inner loop.

If I made the contemplated layout renovation,  the crossing gates (which I like a lot)  would need to be removed from their current location. I guess there are usually plusses and minuses with most substantial layout modifications.  Arnold

 

Arnold please tell us the history of your NH 2350.  I have an original that doesn't look nearly that clean.  Thank you

Pete

I ended up not connecting the first and second levels. The first level train disappears under the second level then reappears on the other side of the layout. This breaks up the feel of running in circles. Although can partly watch it underneath  

I made the second level a little bigger than it’s base by cantilevering it out 12 inches. That allowed for 042 turns without eating too much into level 1. The columns supporting it are for show.  

The 3rd level is my Chicago downtown loop from the original structure. From pics it was that very dark brown/black color. The pillars had pretty small holes too. See below. 

FlyPlanes-PlayTrains posted:

I’m copying fellow forum member franktrain’s use of shelf standards for my new elevated section.  Very cheap to make, and can be cut to whatever length you need, which is  allowing me to hug uneven terrain around my mountain instead of on level ground.  Kind of has that Marx look to it as well.  Here’s a picture he posted a while back. 

I think your homemade trestle look great.

By the way, Leroof, extra height can accommodate some items that need it, like the cop and robber car. When those figures stand on the platform on top of the car, you may need the trestle to be extra tall for them to go under the track above them without getting knocked off. Arnold

The 1993-2003 layout upper level city.....

Peter

Leeroof- I did a second level with connecting tracks up and down. The grades are a bit too steep and several of my locos can't climb the hill dragging several cars. I had considered a separate dog bone style upper level but I like the operational flexibility of connecting tracks. Make sure the clearance from top of the rail to the underside is at least 5 1/2" or more. 

bostonpete posted:

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Arnold please tell us the history of your NH 2350.  I have an original that doesn't look nearly that clean.  Thank you

Pete

Pete, I bought my Postwar NH EP5 at a train show maybe 10 to 15 years ago. It is a good runner but is not in pristine condition. It may look like the exterior is in perfect condition in the video because the engine is seen from a distance as it runs down the track. 

I saw your layout. A subway would look great running on its lower level. Arnold

Putnam Division posted:

The 1993-2003 layout upper level city.....

Peter

Gorgeous.

RSJB18 posted:

Leeroof- I did a second level with connecting tracks up and down. The grades are a bit too steep and several of my locos can't climb the hill dragging several cars. I had considered a separate dog bone style upper level but I like the operational flexibility of connecting tracks. Make sure the clearance from top of the rail to the underside is at least 5 1/2" or more. 

Bob, I think your pillar type trestle looks great.

I love all of the trestle shown in the above replies. All are very clever and look great. 

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

bostonpete posted:

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Arnold please tell us the history of your NH 2350.  I have an original that doesn't look nearly that clean.  Thank you

Pete

Pete, I bought my Postwar NH EP5 at a train show maybe 10 to 15 years ago. It is a good runner but is not in pristine condition. It may look like the exterior is in perfect condition in the video because the engine is seen from a distance as it runs down the track. 

I saw your layout. A subway would look great running on its lower level. Arnold

I'm building subways as soon as someone makes a Boeing LRV type 7 from the MBTA Greeline.   These were the subways I took in graduate school in the late 80 early 90s or  the type 8 an AnsaldoBreda LRV  later when my son was born in Boston in 2005.   I'm not holding my breath...lol.

bostonpete posted:

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

bostonpete posted:

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

Arnold please tell us the history of your NH 2350.  I have an original that doesn't look nearly that clean.  Thank you

Pete

Pete, I bought my Postwar NH EP5 at a train show maybe 10 to 15 years ago. It is a good runner but is not in pristine condition. It may look like the exterior is in perfect condition in the video because the engine is seen from a distance as it runs down the track. 

I saw your layout. A subway would look great running on its lower level. Arnold

I'm building subways as soon as someone makes a Boeing LRV type 7 from the MBTA Greeline.   These were the subways I took in graduate school in the late 80 early 90s or  the type 8 an AnsaldoBreda LRV  later when my son was born in Boston in 2005.   I'm not holding my breath...lol.

How about the Lionel subway that had opening and closing doors? I think that's awesome, but much to expensive for me.

WOW! A truly elevating experience! All The posts answers and photos are truly inspiring, thanks to every one that responded. So many cool second levels and possibilities! My most liked was the photo of the metal home made tall tressle system photo posted by FLY PLANES, PLAY TRAINS. Originally by FRANKTRAINS, posted long ago. Anyone have a link to that post? Some specs perhaps? They don't look too complex to build. Shelving unit hardware would work. I like the height that the photo displays. I could still set up my high voltage catenary poles at selected areas below them/second level. Now I have to get my lower level set up before going up. Really exciting possibility! GREAT!

hope all had a good New Year's Day.

a few views. Still in construction but now operational 

I particularly like the Open look to these metal homemades.

the pillar type  will be good to add as well. All good.

LIRRSTEAMER, what a great upper level! Glad it's operational. So cool. Thanks for the photos.

leroof

Leroof posted:

WOW! A truly elevating experience! All The posts answers and photos are truly inspiring, thanks to every one that responded. So many cool second levels and possibilities! My most liked was the photo of the metal home made tall tressle system photo posted by FLY PLANES, PLAY TRAINS. Originally by FRANKTRAINS, posted long ago. Anyone have a link to that post? Some specs perhaps? They don't look too complex to build. Shelving unit hardware would work. I like the height that the photo displays. I could still set up my high voltage catenary poles at selected areas below them/second level. Now I have to get my lower level set up before going up. Really exciting possibility! GREAT!

hope all had a good New Year's Day.

My apologies for computer illiteracy, I’m having trouble getting the link...

It’s titled “Any issues running a elevated O-31 loop?”  A search should find it.        He used 1/4 ply for the base, 5/8 square stock for the horizontal pieces.  He used the stock shelf brackets to hold it up, and L shaped brackets to attach at the bottom.  Very simple.

The standards are 8 foot lengths, and the brackets are in bags of 25 or so...

I think I paid $3 per standard, and only a few dollars for the bag of brackets at my local Lowes Depot.  

More pics from original post I had saved...

Tom

Leroof posted:

LIRRSTEAMER, what a great upper level! Glad it's operational. So cool. Thanks for the photos.

leroof

Thank you

The upper level uses an 089 diameter curve so the big stuff and the California Zephyr can be comfortable up there. 

FlyPlanes-PlayTrains posted:

Leroof posted:

WOW! A truly elevating experience! All The posts answers and photos are truly inspiring, thanks to every one that responded. So many cool second levels and possibilities! My most liked was the photo of the metal home made tall tressle system photo posted by FLY PLANES, PLAY TRAINS. Originally by FRANKTRAINS, posted long ago. Anyone have a link to that post? Some specs perhaps? They don't look too complex to build. Shelving unit hardware would work. I like the height that the photo displays. I could still set up my high voltage catenary poles at selected areas below them/second level. Now I have to get my lower level set up before going up. Really exciting possibility! GREAT!

hope all had a good New Year's Day.

My apologies for computer illiteracy, I’m having trouble getting the link...

It’s titled “Any issues running a elevated O-31 loop?”  A search should find it.        He used 1/4 ply for the base, 5/8 square stock for the horizontal pieces.  He used the stock shelf brackets to hold it up, and L shaped brackets to attach at the bottom.  Very simple.

The standards are 8 foot lengths, and the brackets are in bags of 25 or so...

I think I paid $3 per standard, and only a few dollars for the bag of brackets at my local Lowes Depot.  

More pics from original post I had saved...

 

Tom

 

It looks as solid and strong as the Rock of Gibraltar.

FLYPLANESPLAYTRAINS, thank you for the added photos. I can well appreciate and bookmark this as a secondary must do project. A trip to Lowes or Home Depot soon.

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

RSJB18 posted:

Leeroof- I did a second level with connecting tracks up and down. The grades are a bit too steep and several of my locos can't climb the hill dragging several cars. I had considered a separate dog bone style upper level but I like the operational flexibility of connecting tracks. Make sure the clearance from top of the rail to the underside is at least 5 1/2" or more. 

Bob, I think your pillar type trestle looks great.

Thanks Arnold. Here's some more photos as I've finished off the edges. I used 1" wood dowel and 1/4" luan. They are very strong, to mount them some are screwed from under the board and others are glued with yellow wood glue.

Bob

RSJB18 posted:

Thanks Arnold. Here's some more photos as I've finished off the edges. I used 1" wood dowel and 1/4" luan. They are very strong, to mount them some are screwed from under the board and others are glued with yellow wood glue.

Bob

Bob, are you saying that's how you secured the dowels?  By screwing from underneath?  I really like that look and I want to duplicate it.  I've noticed that many bridges in my area have round concrete posts and your dowels mimic that look very well.  

Here is my dual-siding 0-31 upper loop. Note the "triple crossover" with the trolley and Figure 8 loops. This does not connect to the elevated section with the buildings above the tunnel.

All made out of cut plywood (traced the track on a 4x8 and cut it out with a SawZall I believe) and use 2x4s for the "columns". Obviously the use of 2x4s makes some interesting arrangements on where to put the posts and clearance. I have a small handful of locos I can't run on the inner loop because of a tight clearance area.

These are some older photos but I'm happy to take more updated/specific ones tonight. I have added a few "shelves" to the upper loop for buildings. I would not use the Lionel trestle set - they are just not tall enough for a good deal of my locos and cars.

beachhead2 posted:

RSJB18 posted:

Thanks Arnold. Here's some more photos as I've finished off the edges. I used 1" wood dowel and 1/4" luan. They are very strong, to mount them some are screwed from under the board and others are glued with yellow wood glue.

Bob

Bob, are you saying that's how you secured the dowels?  By screwing from underneath?  I really like that look and I want to duplicate it.  I've noticed that many bridges in my area have round concrete posts and your dowels mimic that look very well.  

Concrete posts was my thought too and what I was going for.
Yes- I screwed from underneath where I could, I marked the top of the board and drilled a hole then held the dowel in place and ran the screw in. Some spots required an extra pair of hands to hold the dowel since I couldn't reach both sides at the same time.

Thanks

          GREAT photo Bob

The 2-track el loops on my layout that are supported by MTH Rail King Pier Ses with a maximum elevation of 6.5" and 5% grades.

Not the greatest of urban planning having an enclosed town below the upper level, but we have a 2nd tier oval on one table crossing over to another where there is a neighborhood and reversing loop. We used painted foam board for the whole thing including the upper surface and supports. One long straight away is made up of MTH bridges, but otherwise, just the foam board. It was a quick fix to wanting more trains running. While it is a nice visual effect having a train running above the main lines below, it's boring after awhile. I think having it connected to the lower level would be more fun and make for a nice long run, but I'm too darned lazy to start over...

Can anyone tell me what the correct spacing would be for concrete pillars on O gauge, with a fourteen foot straight run, my pillars are three columns for a double track.

This is my upper level. It's just a loop on a 4 x 7.5 area. This is a work in progress. Buildings are in their permanent location but not lighted yet. There are a lot of details to add to the scene. The train just runs around the loop while two trains run on the much bigger lower mainline thanks to DCS and/or LionChief Plus. The 3 trains are visually very interesting to me. There is no connection from the lower main to the upper as I am mostly a loop runner. The trackplan shows where the upper loop is in relation to the lower mainline. I hope this helps or gives you some ideas.

Upper level from the subway or the elevated line above the street?  In MTA transit world, it could be either!  See below - 

RSJB18, great photos of your tressle works and upper level! Enjoy looking them over.

Countryjoe, and Straphanger thanks for your photos too.

Thanks much.

Leroof.