Small shelf layout idea

An idea to maybe help get sharper radii, single power the unit (power on one truck) and move the motor way to the other end to provide longer shaft and that might allow longer coupler swing.    I don't know what radius that unit will handle, and what you are looking for.   I'm thinking it will handle about 40 inch radius now.   If you get much sharper than 36 or so, the couplers will not swing far enough.   

You might want to cannibalize the drive and use it to build something that can take smaller curves.

I hate to cobble the drive system, its so hard to find these drives anymore these days.  If it wasnt so nicely finished, along with the difficulties of repainting with all the mounted extra details, window glass ect, I would repaint to CGW colors.  I am looking at different universal shafts that tollerate the tight angles better.  I bet the shafts are not more than a 1/4 inch long at the most between the motor shaft and the truck gearbox shaft.  A short/squat can motor might help, giving longer coupling shafts, but what I have is either to small power wise or to long in length to help any.   I prefer the older models, would love a small brass SW/NW or Alco HH or S series switcher.   Mike

Side step the loco mechanism for a moment.

For a U configured switching shelf layout in a 9 x 8 room I would suggest using a switch back configuration with a 60" radius minimum..

Swing a 60" radius in each of the two corners.  Where the right of ways cross one another, place a custom Signature Switch Company  60" radius curve on a 60" radius curve diamond. 

In order to maximize tail track length use radius turnouts where the 60" curve terminates / aligns with the common wall.

This will bring additional switching moves which would be so common in tight urban industry settings.

For the 8' middle wall length this will allow aprox 34" from the points to the corner.

If the middle wall is 9' this will allow aprox 4' from the points to the corner.

The key is to use radius turnouts and a curve on a curve diamond. 

A bird's eye view will see a "K" like right of way.

Do all you can to keep the curves as wide as possible.

Conventional numbered switches and straight 45 or 90 degree crossings require lots of real estate.

Brad Strong, the owner of Signature Switch has just shipped some of these to me for my own RR.  Saved the day!

artfull dodger posted:

... I have a 9 foot by 8 foot room to work with.  I am thinking a "C" shaped shelf layout with a small engine shed and interchange track at one end, and a small prairie grain elevator on the other end...

Suggest you post a diagram or sketch of the room showing positions of doors, closet and windows.

I will try to draw something up.  One wall does have a window, but it doesnt affect anything for me.  The back of the "c" is 8 foot.  I do not have use of the full 9 foot length the other way.  One wall I have 6 foot worth on each leg of the C, a bit more if I raise the table height on one side to go above my work area.  

artfull dodger posted:

 I like F units so I am trying to  find a solution to my small spare, the engines need for a large curve and my love of run down shortlines, F units and Alco's(hopefully one day).   Mike

How large a curve does these really need?

I

I have no clue what it needs.  I have no track at the moment.  I know it will not go around the tighter radius Atlas set track from the 70's.  I have no track right now to try and play with curves.  Going to try to pick up some at the O scale convention in 2 weeks (hint hint if anybody has some cheap used flex track!)  Let me fire up my SCRAM track software and see what I can draw up. Not show how well the pic shows, but the coupling between the motor and the inboard axle gear box is extremely short.  This is where I think a sqat but fat can motor would help.  If the drive shafts were longer, the F would handle much tighter track work.     Mike

artfull dodger posted:

I have no clue what it needs.  I have no track at the moment.  I know it will not go around the tighter radius Atlas set track from the 70's.

But it will take that radius, I think?

 I have no track right now to try and play with curves.  Going to try to pick up some at the O scale convention in 2 weeks (hint hint if anybody has some cheap used flex track!)

I only have a 2-3 pieces laying about the shop - I'll bring it, but I want a premium for the dust that's on it.

LMAO!  I bet any lint on it is extra to!   Since I have never been to this meet, does the Indy O scale club set up thier portable 2 rail layout?   Mike

artfull dodger posted:

LMAO!  I bet any lint on it is extra to!  

The drier lint does cost extra,

Since I have never been to this meet, does the Indy O scale club set up thier portable 2 rail layout?   Mike

That aspect was a bit of a disappointment last year - only the little portable P48 layout was on site as far as I recall.

2 years ago there was a very nice modular layout on site,

last time I saw the modular one running, thats the unaffiliated O scale club, they had a beater atlas F9 and a couple of Atlas (older era) cars running.  Nothing that really sparked any interest and there were only a couple people viewing the layout.  There did look to be some new scenery work though.  I must have caught them in a "off" time.  I would think they would want steam, older All Nation F units or even brass running to show off the beauty of 2 rail O scale.  This was at one of the big shows at the fair grounds.   I have thought about joining this group as it would give me means to "stretch the legs" of my elderly F unit.   Mike

On that Old Atlas (70s) track, I think the radius was 24 inches.

There is a short squat Pittman can motor that will fit in there to reduce the motor length.   AN actually sold them as replacements near the end.    I have one in an NW2 switcher and it is great.   

P&D hobbies (Pat Mucci) will be at Indy.   You might ask him if he has one of those motors around.    In any case it will require a search.

artfull dodger posted:

I

I have no clue what it needs.  I have no track at the moment.  I know it will not go around the tighter radius Atlas set track from the 70's.  I have no track right now to try and play with curves.  Going to try to pick up some at the O scale convention in 2 weeks (hint hint if anybody has some cheap used flex track!)  Let me fire up my SCRAM track software and see what I can draw up. Not show how well the pic shows, but the coupling between the motor and the inboard axle gear box is extremely short.  This is where I think a sqat but fat can motor would help.  If the drive shafts were longer, the F would handle much tighter track work.     Mike

You can get a fair idea of the minimum radius requirement by setting the unit on a flat surface, turn the trucks to their limit for a left or right curve, and project lines out from the truck pivots parallel to the axles. Then measure from the intersection of the lines back to the truck pivots for the equivalent track radius.

It's easier and more accurate if you put short straight tracks under each truck and use drafting triangles to project the lines at a right angle from the track. I've tested a variety of HO equipment this way to determine minimum radius requirements for micro-layout projects.

That is a starting point. For a more complete test you need to actually run your equipment coupled together on a curved test track to check for interference between cars and adequate coupler swing etc. Flex-track can be temporarily pinned to layers of corrugated cardboard to test operation on actual track.

 drawn with SCARM by Ace

That is a bit to complex for my brain to process.  I will just take some flex track and tack it in various curves and see how the chassis runs.  As it is right now, I will run out of drive shaft swing before coupler.   Mike

My next step is to get some flex track, then lay a curve that fits on a standard 4" wide table, see how it behaves, then increase the diameter till it runs smoothly without excessive noise from the drive shafts.   I ran it for a bit upside down on my lap and played with the truck angles.  From what his widow said, the models were never really run much if at all.  Most spent thier years in a display case.  The shafts seem to quiet down the more I run and turn the trucks side to side while she is running.  I am pondering a road name and logo to replace the GN lettering and logo on the nose.  Need to get an LED Mars light circuit from Richmond Controls or some other brand.  Did anybody do one of the GN steel cabooses like Tenshodo did in HO scale?

artfull dodger posted:

......... the models were never really run much if at all.  Most spent thier years in a display case.  The shafts seem to quiet down the more I run and turn the trucks side to side while she is running.  

Might consider a wee bit of oil after a good cleaning....

Oh I oiled her up good, I repair model trains as a side business.  Just don't see much in the way of 2 rail O scale these days.  SO I am learning about them as I go.  I love the whole diecast heavy, sprung brass trucks and its very quiet.  She is begging for a proper sound system but I am sure a can motor would be needed to keep amp draw within reason for a decoder.   Mike

72" radius switching shelf layout in a 8' X 9' room.  This is just a quick sketch of a basic right of way with sidings added as desired.   I would have a passing siding within each arc.

There are many variations on this theme.  You can use wye turnouts with the top tangent track whipped up on each end with a sharper curve on a curve diamond.  

Use a #5 and a wye with a 45 degree diamond which can reduce the radius to 48  inches and use a conventional 45 degree diamond.  (mystery underlining!?!)

Included also is a CAD and product of a Signature Switch Co.,  custom curve on curve diamond, plus a photo of a Lionel style radius turnout which at first glance may look like a #6.  However the diverging route is a consistent curvature.  Real efficient use of space.

IMO, I would not bank on using curve rate which needs a modified chassis.  That would mandate that any motive power ever used on this layout  would need to go through the same fix.

The best thing about using Brad's turnouts is that I can just rub crayons on paper placed over converging tracks and he makes a turnout to fit perfectly.

One of our biggest problems in 0 scale is making a fixed size turnout fit within the limited confines of our real estate hungry scale.  Now no longer a problem.  Otherwise, use HO.

Thats interesting, beautiful diamonds and turnout!  My other layout theme I am toying with is the Chicago Great Western as thier later paint scheme is easy to do on an F unit, red with black roof.  Just need to add a winterization hatch, which even the GN unit needs. But for now she will stay in GN colors as I gather stuff to see what I can do.  Really need to find another AN F7 non powered.  Mike

Mike:

It sounds like you are really committed to using the Central Loco drive.  Maybe you should explore the possibility of using a standard All Nation drive system.  I know from experience that they will take  42'' radius curves. If you can find a unit on debay with the delrin chain drive,they are, in my mind, as good as or better than the Central drives.  That would certainly allow you to explore different track plans.

Wes

I am hoping to pick up one, either with the AN drive or a dummy to mate with the one I have.  I just like how smooth and quiet the CLW drive is.  Just need to get her on a big layout and put some run time on it. Also a matter of economics.  I have the engine already, tried to sell it for awhile with no takers, so time to do something with it.  Can't just afford to go out and buy another engine right now.  I would have to scrape up funds if another AN F7 was offered.  Once my one mowing contract pays up, only see him every few months, I should have enough for another engine.  Either another F unit or maybe an AN NW2      Mike

How wide of a shelf surface and what type of construction/support will you be using? 

Shelf brackets off wall or free standing with legs or a combination?

What will be your minimum radius.

Track directly on the surface or will you be using a raised roadbed?

probably a 24" shelf depth but deeper in the 2 corners with a curved front edge to give more room there for buildings/scenery.  If I go with flex track I would go right on the flat surface since this is an overgrown branch line. I would love to find a stash of old True scale roadbed with the premilled ties.  Built a couple HO layouts that way.  I enjoy the old school way of layout building most of the time.  Radius is yet to be determined, but will be controled by the CLW chassis in my F7. Probably 48" min if not larger.  Mike