As I have missed my 97th York how was the show?
Great I hope.
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Not really from what I’ve been hearing.
Sorry to hear that.
Thanks for the reply.
Spent the entire day at the fairgrounds it didn't seem to have as many people walking the halls, but 99% of the parking spots were filled. My guess is there was more TCA members selling than buying. But I can definitively say there was a way bigger crown most of the time in the Blue and Silver halls than Orange.
Considering our recent past and current virus concerns for older citizens, the Eastern Division is still putting on a great toy train event. It "ain't" what it was, but still worth attending if you have the opportunity. I had fun buying and selling today, will probably go back tomorrow.
From what I have seen of wider aisles, missing aisles, and empty tables, I would estimate this show to be about 60% in size of the last York show in October 2019.
I don't understand why they opened the yellow hall at all. Those quasi tables/areas could easily been put in the orange hall. They announced the Yellow hall several times as a dealer hall, but shut it down at 5pm with the member halls.
Personally I expected a glut of trains and/or buyers from pent up demand and reduced train shows.
But overall it looks like a normal York show but just much smaller. No shuttle service, several RV hookups are permanently gone, and only the Blue and Orange halls have arrows. And the PA announcements are down by 90% at least. Also, no leaving the PA microphone on during conversations (which I kinda miss). There was always such suspense at what unfiltered comments might leak out.
The hotel shows were smaller also. Of course no Billy Budd, the Sherman fire hall was replaced by a show at Sheraton 4 points (overall smaller than fire hall). The Wyndham had several tables inside empty and the outside area was a noticeably fewer vendors as well.
I would imagine that an April 2022 would definitely go back to a two day show.
Had a great day. I thought everything was fine. Some great deals out there. I personally love the yellow hall. Looks like it’s been redone. Very clean. Mask wearing appears to be 50/50. I’ll be back in the morning.
Carol and I had a great day as well. Arrived shortly after noon and was able to find a space adjacent to the old White Hall (not in use for this York). The weather was absolutely beautiful - "September shirtsleeves weather", with the high temp in the upper 70s (will be about ten degrees cooler today). Our first time back since 2014.
Wasn't looking for anything in particular (we've just finished tearing down our layout and transporting it in pieces to our retirement home. We found that we had a lot more engines, rolling stock and accessories than we remembered), so had a chance to do a leisurely observe and enjoy.
- Black Hall - had a nice S gauge modular layout with new and old American Flyer running...only member layout we saw running.
- Purple Hall - was happy to see some old friends (e.g. Just Trains from Delaware) present and selling. A lot of folks greeting one another with smiles and laughter (common across all the halls). Hall was busy but not crowded.
- Blue and Silver Halls - we spent most of our time there on Thursday. Looked like ~15% of tables were empty early in the afternoon (this number shrank as members arrived and set up). Aisles were wider. Again, halls were busy, but not crowded (except in spots, like the big engines sellers next to where the admission lines ended). Was interested to see the prices on Postwar Lionel transformers ($100 -115 for ZWs; $80-90 for KWs). Made our only purchase here (a Postwar Lionel NYC F3 B unit).
- Yellow Hall (hadn't been there since the "turn of the millennium"!) - wide variety of sellers - spent a lot of time looking at old paper / books in support of building our new layout.
- Orange Hall - peeked in but saved visiting it for today.
Agree with Rod...about 50/50 on mask usage. Miss the usual "eateries" (did stop for a snack between Blue and Silver). Saw Allen Miller cruising these halls - he's looking good. Will be back this morning to finish up in Red, White, and Orange Halls!
All the best, John
@Chemwiz posted:99% of the parking spots were filled.
You must have parked somewhere else than I did, because I would not say that. There were a lot of vacant spaces between the blue/silver halls and the red hall where I have parked for years. I would say that 50% to 60% of the spaces were filled in that area. There were noticeably fewer campers in this area and significantly fewer cars in this area
@ptbarnm69 posted:SO HAS YORK MADE A GOOD RECOVERY?
Recovery from what? We do not yet live in a post Covid world, and when some were considering making plans to attend a few short months ago, new variants were all over the place, mandates and recommendations of all kinds were flip-flopping and so on and so forth. Add in rumors of vendors who were not attending, socially distanced hall plans, and so on and you have a huge amount of uncertanty and concearns that have led a not so insiginifanct amount of people like me to ultimately decide to pass this one over. I'm glad that they are having the event for those who are attending, but to have any expectations of this being "normal" is foolish, as would be to take any statistics from this event and project from them as if they were normal.
I think it will be hard to judge with only 1 meet that is still happening within the midst of the current situation.
I was actually surprised and happy with the turnout Thursday. While not ground breaking it was decently attended.
Sure there were open spots, missing , vendors etc. but it was a good time. If it continues this way I won’t be upset and write a diatribe about the decline of York. I’ll just go and have fun.
In the beginning of a post covid world it is going in the right direction forward, I hope those missing are well and make it back to the train mecca in the future. Iam here having fun spending money being with folks I consider part of my larger family and that is what it's all about Are there empty tables yes but I would bet the spaces are paid for and will be reserved for the person and future Yorks. Enough said back to having fun life is too short!!
Great time yesterday, even with the changes. Like mentioned earlier, a better than expected crowd, fewer than expected vendors. Prayers out to those under-the-weather! Expect to see the manufacturers out "as usual" come Spring, as York is The Venue for displaying the new product.
Have a great York day folks!!
It’s all about expectations. If you expected attendance to be what it was 10 years ago and to spend the whole day in the orange hall, you’re going to be disappointed. But it was much better than I expected. Silver and Blue halls were packed full of attendees the first few hours. Member halls had some empty tables but better than expected. Orange hall had some major players missing so the hall itself didn’t feel as full with things spaced out.
Some great deals to be hand in the member halls. A ton of reasonably priced scale rolling stock. Blue, Silver, and Gold halls had some great deals on modern scale engines. Picked up a PS2 premier climax for $375 among other things
It looks a little bit more busier this morning in my opinion. More to follow. Announced that 9000 are signed up.
My daughter and I had a great time. Took over 4 hours to cruise the halls and ended up buying 6 pieces of rolling stock. I'm more selective these days so I have no complaints. Prices were good, and I thought attendance was fair. I wish the best for the sellers and hopefully they will do well.
Maybe they opened the yellow hall to space out the show due to covid?
This is going to be a long process. Many dealers didn't attend due to what ever reason. Hopefully for future meets that will change. We are still in the middle of this Covid thing. Hopefully by next Oct things will be much improved.
Announced this morning that attendance had broken 9,000
@aussteve posted:Announced this morning that attendance had broken 9,000
What does the EDTCA get for attendance at a “normal” autumn York expo?
So, just to clarify, the 9k figure is registrations, right?
@Mark V. Spadaro posted:What does the EDTCA get for attendance at a “normal” autumn York expo?
13,000-15,000 if memory serves
@johnstrains posted:So, just to clarify, the 9k figure is registrations, right?
Probably must the line was long again this morning to register.
The registration numbers will be skewed and not accurate no matter how you count them. I saw a lot of people (self included) with April 2020 badges.
So how would April 2020 registrations be counted with current year registrations? They will never be able to certify an accurate number.
It was fun to return however. I enjoyed myself yesterday.
Ron
Yes it did. There's a pandemic and 9,000 people registered and many showed up. Remember, not everyone comes on all days. If you think a show the size of York is not a good show you have unrealistic expectations.
As for yellow hall comments. I'm tired of hearing or reading them. The multitude of variables the ED TCA had to deal with for this meet were unlike any other and pandemic guidelines changed after the registration process started. Plus the potential for last minute changes to those guidelines were ever present. These VOLUNTEERS did a great job under the circumstances and I for one am very appreciative! In fact, I made it a point to thank each volunteer as I entered or exited a hall and I never did that before (my bad).
-Greg
@Mark V. Spadaro posted:What does the EDTCA get for attendance at a “normal” autumn York expo?
@superwarp1 posted:13,000-15,000 if memory serves
Memory is not required - it's published info 
October 2019 - 9,207
April 2019 - 8,459
October 2018 - 8,510
April 2018 - 10, 144
October 2017 - 10,185
April 2017 - 10,686
October 2016 - 10,924
April 2016 - 11,319
October 2015 - 12,073
April 2015 - 10,987
October 2014 - 12,355
April 2014 - 12,225
October 2013 - 13,523
April 2013 - 12,703
October 2012 - 13,713
April 2012 - 13,403
October 2011 - 13,608
-Greg
Boy I was way off. A pattern of decline for sure.
Large Age group,(Boomers), that first experienced model trains as children, (1946 (75 years) to 1956 (65 years)). The world changes every day, at this point. There is a lot of different directions, the very young can go, today, for hobby, or entertainment. IMO, Mike CT.
Really enjoyed Thursday. Did Orange and Purple halls. Picked up Vision Line Hudson from Alex Mallaie. More today!
@superwarp1 posted:Boy I was way off. A pattern of decline for sure.
The internet sales has also impacted York in this time span as much if not more than the demographics
I think that it's only fair to look at this year's Meet at a Starting Point to returning to Normalcy.
I bet the numbers will improve in the next year or two.....FWIW.
I'd also like to point out that the overall numbers appear to have dropped even after TCA Membership was no longer required to walk through the dealer halls.
I have no idea. I had a good time, and found some things. But it was much smaller. Several member dealers were missing that I wanted to see
Gpritch I got my pass for this one and about a month ago I canceled my plans. Vendors backed out that I was going for and this Covid stuff. I just decided to say no not this one. Yea you’re right 9000 registered but how my actually did go. Be interesting to see the final count and how many were no members. Hopefully I’ll be there in the spring.
Loved being back. Regardless of size, I was so thankful to be strolling the halls. I even missed the arrows in the Red Hall, I think it was...was a bit tough at times with two way traffic. Not a complaint but an observation.
Me, too!
With people wearing badges from previous York meets that were not held, I'm not sure how they can get an accurate figure for either registrations or attendance. The parking in front of the Orange Hall was almost completely filled, more than the meets for two years or so before the pandemic, it seemed to me.
I found some good deals, even late in the day today. Examples: a Williams by Bachmann scale GG1 for $250, a WbB PRR NW2 switcher for $150 (both brand new from a dealer). I also saw early (solid rail) Real Trax with good pricing. I managed to buy a pair of AtlasO Solid Steel 072 switches, although another person had gotten there before me and bought out most of the Solid Steel track inventory.
All things considered, this meet was better than I expected it to be.
@Greg Houser posted:Memory is not required - it's published info
October 2019 - 9,207
April 2019 - 8,459
October 2018 - 8,510
April 2018 - 10, 144
October 2017 - 10,185
April 2017 - 10,686
October 2016 - 10,924
April 2016 - 11,319
October 2015 - 12,073
April 2015 - 10,987
October 2014 - 12,355
April 2014 - 12,225
October 2013 - 13,523
April 2013 - 12,703
October 2012 - 13,713
April 2012 - 13,403
October 2011 - 13,608
-Greg
Steady decline. I wonder if 9,000 will be the new normal going forward.
Coming from someone who has never been to York before, I was extremely impressed right off the bat. And even though I agree that it was unfortunate we couldn't get all of the dealers to come, mainly because I was trying to acquire more modern scale equipment, I still think that York was a fantastic show, and I don't know if anything else I will go to in the future will beat it. There's no question that I will come back, although I don't know if I can do it twice a year, haha!
Maybe my opinion would be different if I had went to previous meets, but considering there's a lot of stuff out there I want, going to York isn't exactly finding a needle in a haystack; I saw plenty of things I wanted to get.
Two thumbs up here after spending the past two days roaming the aisles. I’ve found great prices on trains to operate which I bought, and passed on the higher prices for trains to display.
Most of what I bought was in Silver and Blue. Plenty of tables with signs urging you to make any reasonable offer, only one table with a sign saying prices are firm.
Yes, there are empty tables and spaces in halls, but that happens at most train shows. I wouldn’t make to much of it - the show happened/is happening and it was therapeutic to be a part of it. TCAED deserves a standing ovation for pulling this off.
It was great, and I picked up my Glenn Snyder shelves (saved $100), found the Legacy Santa F2 Northern I wanted, and had a great time with a lot of friends!
