Andrew,
Any updates on the progress?
Been slow because of school. I'm hoping to do a bit this week before I go back. Got some items painted recently, but that's it.
Well, a year and a half has passed, but I'm back at it. Hoping to finish this within the month (though the mountain might prevent that).
I graduated from college this past December, and am taking a year (or possibly two) before moving on to law school. In the meantime, I'm back home working, prepping for the LSAT, and finishing this layout.
I decided to move the layout to my house so I'd have time to actually work on it (and motivation, since I couldn't avoid looking at it if in my house).
I found when I got the layout out from my uncle's shed that I had neglected to lay a second coat of paint and 919 grass on the corner on which the transformers etc. mount. I decided to glue some lichen first while determining what to do about the grass issue.
I then decided to take my chances on making a mess and got some paper, painted the corner, and laid the grass. I used the same method described earlier in this thread to lay the grass and vacuum any excess.
Then I placed the transformers, some accessories, and began placing track.
At this point, all the track is laid on this portion of the layout, minus one switch that is sticking a bit. I hope to get that cleaned up and installed tomorrow.
I next began running wire in earnest. I'm using fabric-insulated wire purchased online and some very old wire ring connectors I found in my grandparents' attic for visible connections, matching photos in the very large dealer-display thread on this site.
Next goal is to clean out the boxes seen in the background of these photos so I can move the second half of the layout in and lay the track etc on it, then build the mountain.
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Congratulations on your graduation!
It appears the project stored well. It's really nice that you are going to finish it.
Did you copy the metal bus under the layout for the main hot and common? Is that where you put cloth covered repro wire? Do you still have the plans with the wiring diagram?
I would guess that the wire end connected to the accessories, switches and such were probably shaped and tinned originally. It would look nicer than modern terminals. Still a safe and solid connection. I don't know if I've ever noticed the connection detail on surviving original dealer displays.
Rings are good. A pain to get on and they slide off.
Moonman posted:Congratulations on your graduation!
It appears the project stored well. It's really nice that you are going to finish it.
Did you copy the metal bus under the layout for the main hot and common? Is that where you put cloth covered repro wire? Do you still have the plans with the wiring diagram?
I would guess that the wire end connected to the accessories, switches and such were probably shaped and tinned originally. It would look nicer than modern terminals. Still a safe and solid connection. I don't know if I've ever noticed the connection detail on surviving original dealer displays.
Rings are good. A pain to get on and they slide off.
Hi Moonman:
I am using a bus bar system comparable to the original, though cosmetically it isn't identical.
I have the original wiring diagrams and plan- another user here sent me a copy of the PDF from a disc that includes all the dealer display plans. I referenced photos for exact placement of items and for when the plans were not totally clear.
I'm fairly confident the ring terminals are correct for how these were produced originally. Because these were mass produced quickly by relatively unskilled labor (usually college kids on summer break from my reading), the soldering of each terminal may have been too complex/time-consuming for the workers. Soldering quickly to the bus bars would have been easy enough since they weren't visible and could be a bit sloppy. Had I been going for a "cleaner" look, I would have soldered as you mention. I base my conclusion on the photos below, as well as others I have found in books and online. The layouts which I examined to come to this conclusion span the postwar era, and are owned by multiple people, but all show the same connections- because of that I have to believe they're most likely original.
I agree. They were designed for a dealer to get them set up quickly to sell stuff, rather than have something more aesthetically pleasing. Most likely time appropriate as acceptable.
Andrew, Glad to see you back working on the display layout. Great work! You have faithfully captured “the look.”
EDIT:
For what it’s worth, I took some “builder’s license” on my PW-style layout (the D-105) and used modern materials when desired. I used a bus wiring system but not the metal strips like the old Lionel displays. 14g wiring with those connector tap devices for connections. Also, I used spade clips on wire ends for hooking up accessories and trackside signals. These – and the ring terminals mentioned above – are fine as I see them all the time in pics of the Dealer Displays.
johnstrains posted:Andrew, Glad to see you back working on the display layout. Great work! You have faithfully captured “the look.”
EDIT:
For what it’s worth, I took some “builder’s license” on my PW-style layout (the D-105) and used modern materials when desired. I used a bus wiring system but not the metal strips like the old Lionel displays. 14g wiring with those connector tap devices for connections. Also, I used spade clips on wire ends for hooking up accessories and trackside signals. These – and the ring terminals mentioned above – are fine as I see them all the time in pics of the Dealer Displays.
I had originally thought I'd try to replicate the original bus wiring system, but it's too much headache given where I'm working on the layout now.
I went with heavier-gauge wiring and tap connectors off it as well. So far, so good. I have the circuit that runs the street lamps, water tower flasher, and block signal completed. Planning to do the other accessory circuit on this half of the layout tomorrow, as well as track power (I've been testing stuff with another LW on the floor under the layout).
Just my two cents worth on the use of ring connectors on "original" dealer displays. Ring connectors were not commercially available until the early 1950's. If you study auction sites that have dealer displays you will notice that when the accessories have been removed that only a bare, stripped end wire is left, never a ring connector. The wire appears to be solid, not stranded, which would not require tinning. Remember Lionel used a large amount of solid wire for it's accessories. Also the early ring connectors required a special crimping tool and probably more "training" than you can believe, just doesn't sound like that would fit with Lionel's overall cost watching philosophy. I truly believe that when you see ring connectors on a dealer layout they were added by someone other than the Lionel display department' possibly during a rehab. I have seen only two original dealer displays and neither had ring connectors, also the track wiring was soldered to the edge of the rails.
@Andrew B. posted:I also got a Lionel 920 Scenic kit for the wool to build the mountain. Putting it between some calipers it runs between .027" and .035" or roughly 1/32" which is much thinner than what is available on the market today, with the thinnest I have found at 3/64"
I know this is an old thread but I wanted to ask if anyone had found a suitable source for a felt that would work for building mountains like was used in the past by Lionel?
