.

 

The passenger cars are simply way too heavy. My buddy NYC Jim, who obviously models the New York Central, purchased the full set, but had an MTH Dreyfus Hudson converted to TMCC (he only runs all TMCC equipment), and THAT pulls the train just fine.

 

I supposed if you added a LOT of weight to the Sunset/3rd Rail Dreyfus model it just might pull that really heavy train.

Does it have traction tires?  If not, wait for the plating to wear off the drivers.

Yes, all 3-Rail locomotives from Sunset/3rd Rail come with traction tires, but that NYC passenger train set is simply just too heavy.

I think for the most part the 3rd rail engines are all show and no go. My buddy brought his T-3 over and it would only pull 5 or 6 of my 84' k-line streamliners. You might have to get another one and double head em!

I know a few people who add tungsten weights to their models. John Sethian would be one to fill you in.

 

I also know some who add sheet lead wrapped inside the boiler.

 

You'd have to look inside to see where the weight can be added to know what you can use. I'd also ask on the 2 rail forums here and there. You'll probably find more people who are doing this sort of thing.

You might could put ball brgs in the passenger car truck side frames , you would need different axles , but NWSL could put together a wheelset . Some 2 rail passenger trucks come equipped with ball bearing side frames.

My non-scientific observations on 3rd Rail locos: They are lighter than my "equivalent" Lionel locos. I would think that added weight, up to a point, would help. The motors and transmissions are beefy enough. But-too much weight and a heavy train means you'll spin the traction tires off.
My High Iron K4 would barely pull its (modest) train at first but after running in I had no problem.
The MTH loco may pull all the cars but it has some finagling with the lower front-end shroud to accommodate the lead truck.
How freely do the 20th C cars roll? Will they roll down a >1% grade? Have the cars been run at all? Maybe break-in and a bit of lube will help.
The 1938 consist had 14 cars in it:http://streamlinerschedules.com/concourse/track5/century193809.html so the GGD set isn't quite the complete train.
Best of luck. Ignore the 3rd Rail nay-sayers.

No advise here Nick but I just wanted to say that I am happy that you have the complete set...it certainly is beautiful...

 

Alan

I'm not all that up on my physics, but in the real railroad world, the roller bearing equipped freight cars didn't actually roll any freer than the oil lubricated plain bearing cars. A heavy train is still a heavy train, no matter what kind of bearings are on the axles. Besides, it would be a WHOLE LOT EASIER to simply add weight to the locomotive.

 In G scale, the bearings do make a huge difference in how they roll. Most of my O scale cars roll great though so that'd be a judgement call. Surely heavy cars will be tough on big grades. My O scale 2 rail Pacific doesn't like cars that don't roll well. I can't tell you what she'd pull because it matters on how easy they roll.

 It may seem like a bad suggestion, but if you can't get something perfect to double head with the engine, call out whatever's in the yard. I run my Challengers with diesels all the time. Usually a NS dash 8. It's my RR!! Even the grandkids don't care. They just love the steamers up front. I put a helper somewhere in the freight train. How about an older era diesel? a nice E# or F would look good? 

 By the way, beautiful engine!

I have 3 3rd rails ..PRR S2 PRR S1 and PRR Q2...The problem is there weights are set to far up front....Id moved mine back more to the center..thats helps out alot...... the S2's design are lousy pullers..even lionels and mth are the same way..thats why 3rd rail put traction tires on theres..you also can put frog snot on your wheels for traction..

Hot Water, how many Daylight cars does your GS pull? 12?

Similar problems occur with other Hudson model designs. My Weaver  CP 2816 has similar problems.  A lot has to do with the drivers being forward of the Center of Gravity of the model.  The locomotive balances on the back set of drivers.   So only the back set of drivers has traction.  Weight needs to be added to the front fire box area. (Move the Center of Gravity forward, best if it's on the center driver set, probably the way it is in the real world).    At that point you would get more out of the traction tires on the front set of drivers.  IMO. Weaver did some work on these, adjusting driver spring tension, I believe.

 Mike CT  

 

I think I only wound up with 11 cars, but the new black, skirtless, GS-4 handles the train just fine.

OK great, thanks Jack. I have 14 cars but havent had an opportunity to pull the whole train at once.

Our 2 rail brass locomotives don' t come withe traction tires (yea), and are not heavily weighted as delivered.  This reduces shipping cost and risk of damage.   The motors are quite robust and can handle a significant amount of added lead weight in the boiler.  The practical limit is to make sure that when holding the tender the drivers of the up weighted engine still slip rather than the motor stalling.  Generally the limit on what amount of lead you can add is space in the boiler, not motor capability.  As previously pointed out, the objective is to have the center of gravity on the center of the driving wheelbase.  

 

Ed Rappe

Mike that is an interesting comment.  I know this discussion is about higher end brass, but the second series Brass Williams engine I have and have worked on use 4 traction tires on the drivers.  Forward and Rear drivers on a Northern.   The shell add on weight is centered directly over the forward wheels giving it Front wheel pulling.  The Motor and fly wheel lever off the rear so both sets of tractions tires are weighted.

 

I have been told these are good pullers.  Haven't tested mine yet since I am upgrading the electronics.   G

Probally not an issue but I figured I'd throw it out there. I have a set of Weaver's Troop Sleepers from years ago. Although they are hefty with a die cast frame they really dragged going down the rails. Removing the pickup rollers made a huge difference. Not sure if it was the tension of the spring, the roller size, or just the angle of the arm itself. They limited  the length of the consist with my best pullers.  There wasn't much to see inside the cars so I just removed them. Not an option in your case Nick. But you might want to compare them with the ESE set.

My mistake, I went upstairs and counted the set, and you were correct,,,,,I do have 12 cars. I remember purchasing an "extra car", which was the articulated chair add-on car. I didn't purchase either of the single chair add-on cars, and regret THAT move now, as I then would have the full 14 car set.  Oh well.

Try this as it worked for me.  First tip the engine upside down in your foam cradle and turn the rear screws that hold the plate down on the drivers.  Now get two round pointed tooth picks and shove them in under the plate to lift it up some.  Cut the tooth picks off flush with the frame and screw the plate back down.  The extra height of the rear traction tire driver gets more engine weight on it and it pulls allot better.  Now on the passenger cars.  Remove all the rollers for the center rail.  Build a voltage regulator heat sunk for at least 5 amps.  Mount it in the baggage car.  put in tiny jumper wires the size used to go from tender to engine and go from car to car. I used airplane two pin connectors for plugging in each car.  Also convert the lights in the cars to leds for low current draw.  I used a 400 ohm resistor on one lead from the regulator and put in a 2000 uf filter cap. Also build the regulator with a 25 amp bridge from radio shack. 

The absence of the pickup rollers takes the pull of the cars way down.

hello guys and gals.......

 

My Sunset 3rd S.F.5011 can "walk away" with all of my really "heavy" MTH heavyweights and all the cars have dual roller pickups even the tender has dual pick ups too.  The Texan pulled it without even trying as I found out it has most of it weight on the last three drivers and has traction tires too.  The Texan is almost too light on the first front drivers so I will have to add some weight to the front to "balance" the engine.   My S.F. Texan is the strongest brass locomotive I ever owned as I had dozen of brass locomotives mostly H.O. and 3 "O" scale brass engines ,Sunset U.P. #9000 , Westside models PRR Q-2 and J-1a back in 1980's and they are weak pullers. We bought the S.F. Texan back in Dec 2012 and when we came to Scott Mann's headquarters in San Ramon to pick up my engine and he had Danny tested the engine and it was pulling 10 lionel postwar aluminum cars on 054 track, the Texan just pulled it all with out breaking a sweat, "just walking" on his testing layout when they gave us the tour .  Those postwar aluminum passenger cars have a lot of rolling drag on them.

 

the woman who loves the S.F.5011,2678

Tiffany

One way to see if adding lead weight can meet your train pulling objective is to saddle the boiler (externally ) with a lead carrying "saddle bag".  For lead I use discarded automotive wheel balancing weights (free for the asking at most tire shops).  I pinned together a crude saddle bag out of a scrap of cloth to hold the pieces of lead while laying over the boiler.  Through experimentation you'll be able to determine if adding weight (and its placement) can achieve the drawbar pulling power you need. 

 

If successful the next trick is determining how to best fit the required weight into the boiler.  In some instances I've cast a new weight, in others I've used sheet lead strips  tucked/epoxied alongside the factory weight.  Depending how much additional weight is needed you may or may not be able to fit it in a crowded 3 rail Hudson boiler - but at least you'll know what added weight can offer without taking apart the locomotive.

 

Ed Rappe

 

 

Hello Keystoned ED..............

That's a good idea !!

 

the woman who love the S.F.5011,2678

Tiffany

Roller bearings reduce rolling resistance, not the weight. Otherwise, why would they be used? Surely you know of the story of the publicity event staged by the N&W with one of their (then) new J class 4-8-4s being pulled by two or three men to demonstate the effect of roller bearings....

 

Well, that isn't quit true at all. Plain bearings had a bit less "rolling resistance" then the "new roller bearings", especially in cold weather. The main reason for the railroads move to 100% roller bearings was MAINTENANCE!  With roller bearings, there was no longer the requirement for Carmen, cotton waste, journal bearing oil, and huge quantities of replacement brass bearings. Plus, the reduction in "hotboxes" was dramatic! 

Nick,

 

I'm sure glad your Dreyfus pulled hard out of the box. Appreciate the video.

Beautiful train Nick....I love mine too but unfortunately my locomotive is down right now.  Some sort of short that I can't find so it will be brought to York to be repaired...hopefully.

 

Alan

My 3rd Rail 3751 and the 2913 easily pull the GGD Super Chief cars up 2% grades.