From an email from Scott Mann an hour ago:
"JUST ANNOUNCED: 3rd Rail is producing the SD40-2 Diesels in stunning detail in your favorite road names. We welcome your reservations . Expect these beasts to arrive in the the fall of 2017. Please visit our web site and choose your favorite livery."
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Hey this is fantastic!
great news modern modelers!
How cool is that.
Excellent news! Thanks for sharing Bill!
Thankfully, there are no new SP or DL&W models. My wallet can breathe a sigh of relief. And the Erie Lackawanna ACE 3000 provided the comedic relief I needed today.
Bob, Don't forget you can write in a roadname, assuming if Scott get's enough requests they would be done. 
Scott has added N&W to the list. All are planned to be low hood so if you want Southern, N&W or NS high hood you need to mention it to Scott so he can see if there is enough demand for high hoods. If not you will have to wait for MMWs SD-40s at a much higher price.
I'll be reserving a Chessie System SD40-2. Now to convince Scott to do a GP30 Kinda funny to hear you call an SD40-2 "modern" Erik :-)
I pout myself down for a couple of Scott's SD40-2's in Chicago Northwestern, now to buy enough to get them made
I'll spring for 2 CSX SD40-2's unless enough requests to do a run of Wheeling & Lake Erie SD40-2's can be met.
My gut feel is Scott will end up doing multiple runs of this VERY popular locomotive!
Scott will have to talk to the builder regarding the additional cost for the high hood as for how many units will be required to get it done. My guess is around 50 including Southern, NW and NS. The tooling cost for the SD7/9s was not quite double the E and F units so tooling costs for hood units is becoming a significant piece of the cost structure.
Great y'all are emailing Scott with units you'll reserve that are not listed. Keep it up. The possibilities were overwhelming so the initial pick was a total WAG.
The Conrail units are in a similar situation as the high hoods as they sat on older trade-in trucks for which tools need to be made.
I've also told Scott I may sponsor/guarantee the Milwaukee Bicentennial unit if there is any interest. Email me or Scott if interested. We shall see.
Mike DeBerg posted:My gut feel is Scott will end up doing multiple runs of this VERY popular locomotive!
And more F7s ????
Soooooo wish Scott would do this in S gauge with TMCC! I would be in for half the road names he has listed.
Ben
Hi RDUNN,
The Conrail SD40-2s were ordered with Flexicoil trucks (while other roads used the HTC truck).
These Flexicoil trucks on the CR SD40-2s were not trade-ins.
I have read that the Flexicoil trucks used on early Conrail SD50s were trade-ins from CR SD9s and SD35.
By that rational (and if valid), couldn't the SD7/9 Flexicoil truck sideframes be used?
Probably the most significant O scale locomotive announcement in a decade.
Not my era but certainly one of, if not the most significant locomotive of the past 50 years.
Tell me again how O scale is dying?
Rule292 posted:Probably the most significant O scale locomotive announcement in a decade.
Not my era but certainly one of, if not the most significant locomotive of the past 50 years.
Tell me again how O scale is dying?
Not "the most significant O Scale locomotive announcement in a decade" if those who want a particular SD40-2 and it can't be made because of tooling cost. Especially when it is popular roads. We will wait and see how this all pans out. I will not be ordering any.
Stephen
nw2124 posted:Rule292 posted:Probably the most significant O scale locomotive announcement in a decade.
Not my era but certainly one of, if not the most significant locomotive of the past 50 years.
Tell me again how O scale is dying?
Not "the most significant O Scale locomotive announcement in a decade" if those who want a particular SD40-2 and it can't be made because of tooling cost. Especially when it is popular roads. We will wait and see how this all pans out. I will not be ordering any.
Stephen
I dabble in a couple of different scales. HO being one of them. This announcement got me thinking about the recent announcement by ScaleTrains for their "Rivet Counter" SD40-2. Apparently it will feature not only road specific details, but road number specific details. If I were a betting man I would bet that the HO model will be more detailed and accurate. I could be wrong, we'll see. List prices are $199.99 vs. $729.99 both having DCC and sound factory installed. I'm working on both an O scale switching pike and an HO module right now. I'm not sure which way I'm going to go on these now that I've thought about it a bit. I'll probably wait to see the SD7 first before making a decision.
Jonathan, Certainly understand your situation, but this is a great problem to have.
Unless you make your tooling modular, similar to Scaletrains.com and Athearn Genesis are doing to allow for more of that road and roadnumber specific details it will be hard to match that level of accuracy. So here in lies an opportunity, do the SD40-2 in phases, it's got such a long life span, many multiple owner locomotives, modifications, etc. If you're looking at the higher end line, this is almost a must, if you're wanting to minimize the variations then it may not matter except for just breaking them up into multiple runs from a production standpoint. The SD40-2 can easily be a cornerstone product in one's product line if done correctly.
nw2124 posted:Rule292 posted:Probably the most significant O scale locomotive announcement in a decade.
Not my era but certainly one of, if not the most significant locomotive of the past 50 years.
Tell me again how O scale is dying?
Not "the most significant O Scale locomotive announcement in a decade" if those who want a particular SD40-2 and it can't be made because of tooling cost. Especially when it is popular roads. We will wait and see how this all pans out. I will not be ordering any.
Stephen
Stephen,
Since you were interested in Midwestern Model Works locomotives, after Sunset’s announcement related to the SD40-2, do you think Erik will still be offering the same model as his next project?
From following Sunset’s announcement in the email newsletter & from following the comments on the 2-rail & 3RS forum, I get the impression that Sunset will be offering road specific details for the popular road names. So that leaves Erik to offer SD40-2 in the less popular road names that have unique details that Sunset couldn’t economically make.
As a disclaimer I am not interested in the SD40-2 but I would be interested in the next project, Erik has on his website, the AC4400CW.
These are just my opinion,
Thanks,
Naveen Rajan
Comparing HO to O is not really fair. The market for HO has to be an order of magnitude higher. Once you recover your non-recurring costs (research, fixtures, molds, setup, testing, fixing errors, etc), each succeeding model probably costs a hundred dollars to produce. If you spread your development costs over fifty models, each will cost way more than if you spread the same costs over a thousand models.
An O Scale model built to today's exacting standards will by definition be better detailed than an HO model, and will probably cost ten times as much because of the limited market.
Opinion.
EMD posted:Hi RDUNN,
The Conrail SD40-2s were ordered with Flexicoil trucks (while other roads used the HTC truck).
These Flexicoil trucks on the CR SD40-2s were not trade-ins.
I have read that the Flexicoil trucks used on early Conrail SD50s were trade-ins from CR SD9s and SD35.
By that rational (and if valid), couldn't the SD7/9 Flexicoil truck sideframes be used?
Thanks! I did not know that.
The SD7/9 trucks cannot be used because the brake rigging is completely different and the sideframes are pretty much cast as a single piece. The E units were the last to use sideframes with all the brake rigging as an add on detail. Turns out the cost of tooling is less than the cost of labor to assemble them: who knew.
Bill McBride posted:Mike DeBerg posted:My gut feel is Scott will end up doing multiple runs of this VERY popular locomotive!
And more F7s ????
Not likely. Nowhere near the interest required expressed for any repeats or new roads. The additional units for the Empire Builder and demonstrators has only added up to about 20% of the minimum required.
Mike DeBerg posted:Jonathan, Certainly understand your situation, but this is a great problem to have.
Unless you make your tooling modular, similar to Scaletrains.com and Athearn Genesis are doing to allow for more of that road and roadnumber specific details it will be hard to match that level of accuracy. So here in lies an opportunity, do the SD40-2 in phases, it's got such a long life span, many multiple owner locomotives, modifications, etc. If you're looking at the higher end line, this is almost a must, if you're wanting to minimize the variations then it may not matter except for just breaking them up into multiple runs from a production standpoint. The SD40-2 can easily be a cornerstone product in one's product line if done correctly.
When a production run is 5000 units and the second of 5000 is a sure thing it is feasible. When a production run is 500 and a second 500 is very questionable not so much.
I suggested offering an SD38-2 because the only differences with an SD40-2 are the dynamic brake and radiator areas that could be done with modular tooling. That got put in the "lets see how this goes first" pile.
Scott is starting to offer some HO things and he gets more reservations in about a month for an HO item than he will get in total for any one of these diesels or passenger cars/trains.
Looks like 3rd rail is listing a 2017 delivery. A good thing, since these fill a big hole for the modern 2 rail O scale modeler.
For operators, running a 2 to 4 unit consist could get pricey, but given the excellent running qualities of 3rd rail diesels this might be a "bargain" though $700 is getting up there in price.
nw2124 posted:Not "the most significant O Scale locomotive announcement in a decade" if those who want a particular SD40-2 and it can't be made because of tooling cost. Especially when it is popular roads. We will wait and see how this all pans out. I will not be ordering any.
Stephen
At least you're closer to having the most accurate non-brass SD40-2 in O scale, you can always do what all of us have done for the past 50 years - Paint and scratchbuild.
All versions of SD40-2 from Weaver, MTH & Lionel were all clones of each other. The trucks were located too far inward and the cabs were non dash 2 cabs.
The SD40-2 is one of EMDs most tried and true locomotives with 3,982 units built, compared to 4,112 GP9s (which have already been accurately done).
I wouldn't be surprised if Lionel announces a Built to Order SD40-2
SPSF posted:nw2124 posted:Not "the most significant O Scale locomotive announcement in a decade" if those who want a particular SD40-2 and it can't be made because of tooling cost. Especially when it is popular roads. We will wait and see how this all pans out. I will not be ordering any.
Stephen
At least you're closer to having the most accurate non-brass SD40-2 in O scale, you can always do what all of us have done for the past 50 years - Paint and scratchbuild.
All versions of SD40-2 from Weaver, MTH & Lionel were all clones of each other. The trucks were located too far inward and the cabs were non dash 2 cabs.
The SD40-2 is one of EMDs most tried and true locomotives with 3,982 units built, compared to 4,112 GP9s (which have already been accurately done).
I wouldn't be surprised if Lionel announces a Built to Order SD40-2
Eventually MMW will make a very accurate brass SD40-2 and if all indications are correct Erik will be hitting it out of the park.
In the meantime the current 3rd rail release remains as the most significant second generation EMD being offered given the sheer popularity of the model and the fact that they are still running (and running well) today.
Yep, this is the most significant model release in the past 10 years for 2r O scale for that reason... and I don't even model "that era".
bob2 posted:Comparing HO to O is not really fair. The market for HO has to be an order of magnitude higher. Once you recover your non-recurring costs (research, fixtures, molds, setup, testing, fixing errors, etc), each succeeding model probably costs a hundred dollars to produce. If you spread your development costs over fifty models, each will cost way more than if you spread the same costs over a thousand models.
An O Scale model built to today's exacting standards will by definition be better detailed than an HO model, and will probably cost ten times as much because of the limited market.
Opinion.
That is true. I think a comparison is absolutely valid though. This is a hobby. Each of us makes a personal value assessment before we purchase based on quality, detail, sound, running qualities, etc... Adding scale in to that equation as one of the variables is not out of the question. For someone like me who is starting a new layout build I don't mind switching scales, selling off my O and going to HO if it's worth it. For someone with an existing layout and decades worth of collection it would likely be a different story.
So I have to ask myself if I want to spend orders of magnitude more for equal or less detail and accuracy. Sorry to derail this. I'm sure this will be a great model for Scott. I'm happy for my 2 and 3 rail friends that really want them.
Jonathan,
I see by your picture that you wear glasses and you appear to be in your late 30's or early 40's. If your eyes behave like mine, your eyesight will deteriorate over the next 40 years. I am glad I stayed with O Scale. It is much easier to see and work on than even S Scale, in which I dabbled temporarily. This was my practical approach to deciding which scale to choose. Besides, I like the heft of O Scale.
Best of luck with your decision.
Ed
Yes - if the impressive size of O Scale is not what grabs you, then HO is the place to be, for variety, detail, and especially cost. The smaller models hold zero interest for me.
Ed Kelly posted:Jonathan,
I see by your picture that you wear glasses and you appear to be in your late 30's or early 40's. If your eyes behave like mine, your eyesight will deteriorate over the next 40 years. I am glad I stayed with O Scale. It is much easier to see and work on than even S Scale, in which I dabbled temporarily. This was my practical approach to deciding which scale to choose. Besides, I like the heft of O Scale.
Best of luck with your decision.
Ed
You nailed it Ed. I'm 42 and wear glasses for distance. Recently the near field vision is starting to go too. That is what caused me to rule out of N scale. I don't want to come off as anti-O. I love the size of O scale. Truth be told I think S is the perfect size, but that's another story... I believe you speak wisdom and I will certainly be considering that.
Thanks
Scott Mann....How about the Susie-Q? Atlas O did one number and they sold out and those fortunate enough to have purchased them are in no rush to relinquish them...give the rest of us a chance to get one this time. 3010 was an SD40T-2 (Ex-UP 8590 - SP 5397 née DRGW SD40T-2 5397) but reclassified as an SD40-2 by the NYS&W. The 3022 was an SD40 (Ex-BDLX 1605 - NS 1605 - née N&W SD40 1605 (not a dash-2) (was a high-hood)) but reclassified as an SD40-2 by the NYS&W after the hood was chopped.
NEPA posted:Scott Mann....How about the Susie-Q? Atlas O did one number and they sold out and those fortunate enough to have purchased them are in no rush to relinquish them...give the rest of us a chance to get one this time. 3010 was an SD40T-2 (Ex-UP 8590 - SP 5397 née DRGW SD40T-2 5397) but reclassified as an SD40-2 by the NYS&W. The 3022 was an SD40 (Ex-BDLX 1605 - NS 1605 - née N&W SD40 1605 (not a dash-2) (was a high-hood)) but reclassified as an SD40-2 by the NYS&W after the hood was chopped.
Since neither locomotive is really an SD40-2, despite what the railroad calls them, I doubt 3rd Rail will be offering these anytime soon. Now, if 3rd Rail decides to invest in the tooling for an actual SD40T-2 or an SD45T-2, my budget is in serious trouble.
RDUNN,
Just want to mention that both Norfolk Southern and CSX SD40-2s can be modeled with the Flexicoil trucks (as former Conrail units).
How are the sounds of these 3RD RAIL engines compared to the legacy sounds of Lionel?
Grand Trunk Western's GTW 5936 was in Kalamazoo, Michigan in August 2016.
It was from the Missouri Pacific/Union Pacific.
This is the one that I would have to purchase.
Andrew
This is great news. I hope time is taken to get the different components precise so they can be used on future models i.e. cab and trucks etc. It can only lead to other roadnames and other SD and GP models. I would also like to encourage a truck design that would allow a modeler to easily relocate the pivot of the truck from between the 2/3 wheelset to the middle of the center wheelset. This would allow modelers with larger curves to have the truck pivot like the prototype. I hope to make this modification to my Sunset E7 units. The other thing is the pay close attention to the height of the SD40-2 units height above the rails. If they are up in "air" I am not going to be happy.
With the mastery of the Blomberg trucks for the F units, cabs from the SD40-2s it would be a natural for GP50s, GP40s, and GP38s along with their Dash - 2 variants to also get done. I for one would LOVE a trio of Southern Hi-Hood GP50s pulling some hot piggyback trains!
Green Bay & Western posted:How are the sounds of these 3RD RAIL engines compared to the legacy sounds of Lionel?
This can be a point of debate... depending upon whether you prefer absolute fidelity to the prototype or a bit of "artistic license" in favor of great sound. From what I understand, we're at the mercy of ERR on the sound front. And Lionel tends to license "n-1" or "n-2" generation sounds to ERR -- instead keeping the ultimate locomotive sounds for its own Legacy brand products. Here's a link to current ERR sound boards via locomotive series... and you can be the judge.
http://www.electricrr.com/purchaseRailSnd.htm
Some are real winners , and some leave a LOT to be desired 
. The SD-series and GP-series sound boards seem to have great presence. So folks planning on getting an SD40-2 from 3rd Rail should be quite happy.
OTOH, I find the sounds of the E8/E9, F3, and FM-series locomotives to be somewhat lackluster (based on the sound-files featured on the ERR website). I have two 3rd Rail Canadian Pacific E8's on order from last year, and the word is production has slipped to 2017. I'm OK with the slippage, but please, please, PLEASE 3rd Rail... PLEASE choose a diesel sound package with modern-day presence. It's time for these companies to retire the "sick cow" diesel horn sounds once and for all -- whether it's prototypical or not. Other folks may have different opinions on the matter, so YMMV.
David
It would be nice to see them done in CNW livery, but then my wallet would take another hit. I can't recall which CNW purchased and which came as acquisitions from other roads, but some had dynamic brakes, while others did not. Maybe Andrew (FalconService) can clear this up.
Thank you for the info David. It is hard to beat the legacy sounds, but these aren't bad. I too did order a Amtrak E9 from them.
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