Switcher Saturday 07-01-23

@EmpireBuilderDave posted:

I have been working on track laying and wiring of my switching layout for quite awhile now and seems I have it operational, other than automating the switches.  This is my representation of the Union Freight Railroad running through Boston, with just a few structures built and in place to get a feel for running.  I knew I had to get the track running smoothly before I went to far on building structures and city.

https://ogrforum.com/...nionFreightSmall.MP4

Note the "run around" move in the end for you real switching geeks.  Union Freight ran through city streets and had little space to work with.  The breaks in the video are because although I have uncoupler tracks in there I have not gotten auto coupling and uncoupling to work reliably.  Has anyone built a switching layout with auto uncoupling that works well and have tips?

I enjoyed that video. That's a nice little docksider; am I seeing the NJC "Lady Liberty" logo on the tank? Regarding uncoupling with an "operating" track section, the truck quality on the car has everything to do with getting consistent uncoupling to work. For example, MTH cars with diecast trucks work almost every time, while I can't get Weaver cars with the plastic trucks and thumbtack tabs to work at all. The thumbtack is set so low that it hits the magnet before the pin releases the knuckle.

EmpireBuiderDave,

What couplers are you using?

If you are using Kadees with Kadee magnetic uncouplers you will probably find that the cars with steel wheels are pulled toward the middle of the uncoupler and may cause unwanted uncoupling. Plastic or non-ferrous wheels reduce this behavior. The early Weaver diecast trucks had brass wheels.

@Ron045 posted:

Well you said, "They look similar to me".  So I assume you mean looks and not internal components or performance specifications.

So let's see if I can post links to pictures without getting in trouble of posting actual pictures.

Here is a Baldwin V01000.  And there were different types of these, most notably to the eye are the different smoke stacks and the round curve vs 90-degree angle of the front of the cab by the door.
VO 1000

The VO-1000 was built between 1/1939 and 12/1946 and many lasted to the 1970s, although usually after extensive rebuilds. Used by nearly 60 different roads, there were a lot of variations.   Its design was an end cab switcher at 48'.

Then there is the S12.  Also a Baldwin.  A couple of ascetic differences but most likely the differences are what we can't see.
S12

The S-12 was built between 1/1951 and 10/1956 and was nearly as successful as their VO-1000, and used by nearly the same number of roads.  This is also an end cab switcher and very similar to the VO-1000 with many of the same features as well as also being 48'. 

Then there is the NW2 made by EMD.  Other that the fact that it is a switcher and has a cab in the rear, it really does not look like a V01000.
NW2

The NW2 was built between 2/1939 and 12/1949 with more than twice as many produced as the VO-1000, and used by almost 90 roads.  Like the Baldwins, they were also an end cab switcher but at 44' they were a little shorter than the Baldwins.

I could understand if you thought the NW2 looked like the SW7, 8, 9 or even the SW1200.  Those are similar EMD products.

Ron

There are structural/design differences between Baldwin and EMD products, and as Ron stated noticeable in the hood area.  However, basically they are all end cab switchers of similar length.  To a novice I am sure they do look similar, but side-by-side you can see the differences.  You throw in other end cab diesels like the other EMD ones Ron mentioned as well the FM's and ALCO's and things can get really confusing.  Granted, each company has a basic "look" that distinguishes it from the others, but you need to do some studying to get it right. 

Thanks for the info, CAPPilot and Ron.

With a switching style layout that has numerous sidings, 022s and sharp 031 curves, steam and diesel switchers are usually my locomotives of choice and run best on my layout. With such a layout, it's nice to learn more about the different prototype switchers.

@EmpireBuilderDave- loved the video. Is this part of a larger layout or a stand alone?
The MTH 0-4-0 is a good choice for power.  I agree that coupler type and especially the weight of the cars will affect performance. Kadees and magnets would be more reliable than the lobster claws too.

I have an old hollow core slab door that I'm saving for a switching layout. I hope to find the time to build it one day. Not exactly John Allen's Timesaver but it would be fun to operate. The only add would be a staging track extension from the top left track.
I'd probably use a short diesel like a NW-1 or Plymouth for power. I have a BEEP that I've upgraded with TMCC/ ERR if I want to add command control.

Bob

@Bill Swatos posted:

I enjoyed that video. That's a nice little docksider; am I seeing the NJC "Lady Liberty" logo on the tank? Regarding uncoupling with an "operating" track section, the truck quality on the car has everything to do with getting consistent uncoupling to work. For example, MTH cars with diecast trucks work almost every time, while I can't get Weaver cars with the plastic trucks and thumbtack tabs to work at all. The thumbtack is set so low that it hits the magnet before the pin releases the knuckle.

Thanks Bill!  Yes, that is the MTH New Jersey Central Dockside switcher set.  That is standing in until I find a suitable New Haven Switcher or New Haven 44 tonner which would be historically accurate.  The Docksider is nice and small so it fits the tight switches well. 

I have a wide range of manufacturers for the freight to achieve the roadnames I need and have realized the variety of couplers.  I think I'll plan to manually uncouple rather than design in more uncoupler tracks (which are a pain to add and wire).  I've also found coupling to cars nearly impossible to do realistically since you have to slam a car pretty hard to have the coupler close unless it is at a siding with a bumper.

@RSJB18 posted:

@EmpireBuilderDave- loved the video. Is this part of a larger layout or a stand alone?
The MTH 0-4-0 is a good choice for power.  I agree that coupler type and especially the weight of the cars will affect performance. Kadees and magnets would be more reliable than the lobster claws too.

I have an old hollow core slab door that I'm saving for a switching layout. I hope to find the time to build it one day. Not exactly John Allen's Timesaver but it would be fun to operate. The only add would be a staging track extension from the top left track.
I'd probably use a short diesel like a NW-1 or Plymouth for power. I have a BEEP that I've upgraded with TMCC/ ERR if I want to add command control.

Bob

Thanks Bob!  I have a small two level layout room that I am slowly building out, with a few key areas that I'm building.  After the last couple house moves, I am trying to build in a modular fashion in case I have to move again.  On the top level, this "Union Freight" switching module connects through a switch to a main line freight with actually another switching area following the TimeSaver design in a Pennsylvania setting.  My plan is to have one freight mainline simulate transit from Pennsylvania/West Virginia to Boston with switching at either end to service various industries.  I enjoy building structures so most of the railroad will be tightly packed with various industry buildings and service yards.
On the bottom level, I have a passenger operation with a yard at Boston South Station and then plan to run passenger trains in a loop in the lower level.

I figure I have another 20 years of modeling to do to achieve all this but I am happy with my baby step progress.  I've been working on Union Freight on and off for a couple years I guess.  I've finally this year found enough time to get the track down for this as well as my TimeSaver switching area.

@ctr posted:

EmpireBuiderDave,

What couplers are you using?

If you are using Kadees with Kadee magnetic uncouplers you will probably find that the cars with steel wheels are pulled toward the middle of the uncoupler and may cause unwanted uncoupling. Plastic or non-ferrous wheels reduce this behavior. The early Weaver diecast trucks had brass wheels.

A little bit of everything - Kline, MTH, Lionel of various eras.  I have not switched out anything for Kadees.  Whatever I could find at the York TCA meets that matched the roadnames I needed.  I do try to go with die cast sprung trucks when I can.

Here is a (very rough) overview of the trackage emulating the double tracked Union Freight running through Boston.  This follows the trackage of the original Union Freight with a nice mixture of facing point and trailing point switches.  The main freight line is in the upper right corner, where the switcher will pick up the cars destined for Boston businesses.

@EmpireBuilderDave posted:

Thanks Bill!  Yes, that is the MTH New Jersey Central Dockside switcher set.  That is standing in until I find a suitable New Haven Switcher or New Haven 44 tonner which would be historically accurate.  The Docksider is nice and small so it fits the tight switches well.

I have a wide range of manufacturers for the freight to achieve the roadnames I need and have realized the variety of couplers.  I think I'll plan to manually uncouple rather than design in more uncoupler tracks (which are a pain to add and wire).  I've also found coupling to cars nearly impossible to do realistically since you have to slam a car pretty hard to have the coupler close unless it is at a siding with a bumper.

Indeed! Couplers from different manufacturers often don't work well with each other resulting in "slam it off the rails" force being required to engage couplers if they engage at all. As with uncoupling, the quality diecast sprung trucks you mention couple the best. Among "affordable" offerings, MTH, Atlas, Lionel PS-1 all work well. Surprisingly, the lower cost Williams rolling stock has really nice trucks with uncoupler plates, but the "Bettendorf" casting they use doesn't represent the equipment actually found on the prototypes, in most cases.

@EmpireBuilderDave posted:

....This is my representation of the Union Freight Railroad running through Boston....

https://ogrforum.com/...nionFreightSmall.MP4

....Union Freight ran through city streets and had little space to work with....

Dave,

That is a very ambitious project. I've been watching your progress with interest.

Years ago, I lived in and around Boston and used to see the Union Freight Railroad at the time it was still in operation. Since then, I've studied its history. Recently, I even considered building a scale model of the Union Freight and designed a track plan beginning with the yard at 87 Atlantic Avenue. It's a formidable project to do with 3-rail sectional track. I will be interested to see how you represent pavement or cobblestones, especially between the rails and on the switches. Keep us informed.

MELGAR

@MELGAR posted:

Dave,

That is a very ambitious project. I've been watching your progress with interest.

Years ago, I lived in and around Boston and used to see the Union Freight Railroad at the time it was still in operation. Since then, I've studied its history. Recently, I even considered building a scale model of the Union Freight and designed a track plan beginning with the yard at 87 Atlantic Avenue. It's a formidable project to do with 3-rail sectional track. I will be interested to see how you represent pavement or cobblestones, especially between the rails and on the switches. Keep us informed.

MELGAR

Thanks Melgar and glad you saw this.  I've actually incorporated the idea you suggested for the layover yard at 87 Atlantic Avenue in the track plan with a switch and eventual yard building right in the center of the track.  I don't have room in the layout room for the yard itself, so maybe we'll need a "virtual interchange" from your yard to my Boston trackage.
As all railroaders say, I wish I had more space to fit more of Boston in.  Here is a sketch of the track schematic, showing where the yard would be.  It is fairly close to the prototype as I have been following the Sanborne maps plus images I've collected of the area.

This Sanborne map shows the yard right next to the Prince Macaroni building.

All the Sanborn maps are public domain and great reference for prototype modeling.  About this Collection  |  Sanborn Maps  |  Digital Collections  |  Library of Congress (loc.gov)

Hi Dave and Mel,

I used to own a book called "The Railroad That Came Out at Night: a Book About Railroading in and Around Boston" by Frank Kyper.  It covers Union Freight as well as NYC, NH and B&M.

It's available on Amazon; if you haven't read it, I suggest you get a copy.  It will help you model your switching railroads!

John

@Steam Crazy posted:

Hi Dave and Mel,

I used to own a book called "The Railroad That Came Out at Night: a Book About Railroading in and Around Boston" by Frank Kyper.  It covers Union Freight as well as NYC, NH and B&M.

It's available on Amazon; if you haven't read it, I suggest you get a copy.  It will help you model your switching railroads!

John

John,

Thanks for the recommendation. Frank Kyper's book has an excellent article about the Union Freight and other topics on railroading around Boston. Another source of information is "Shoreliner," the magazine of the New Haven Railroad Historical and Technical Association.

Modeling the Union Freight in the diesel era, the best engines would be an Alco S-2 and a GE 44-tonner - both by Mth Premier.

MELGAR

@Steam Crazy posted:

Hi Dave and Mel,

I used to own a book called "The Railroad That Came Out at Night: a Book About Railroading in and Around Boston" by Frank Kyper.  It covers Union Freight as well as NYC, NH and B&M.

It's available on Amazon; if you haven't read it, I suggest you get a copy.  It will help you model your switching railroads!

John

Thanks John, I have the Kyper book as well.  I've become a collector of all the media I can find on Boston railroading, including Shoreliner magazines and a few other books.

Shoreliner has a great issue devoted almost exclusively to UFRR.  I have a couple other Shoreliner issues supporting my model section of South Station as well.

@MELGAR posted:

John,

Thanks for the recommendation. Frank Kyper's book has an excellent article about the Union Freight and other topics on railroading around Boston. Another source of information is "Shoreliner," the magazine of the New Haven Railroad Historical and Technical Association.

Modeling the Union Freight in the diesel era, the best engines would be an Alco S-2 and a GE 44-tonner - both by Mth Premier.

MELGAR

Yeah, the premier engines are a bit pricy for me but I'm watching for the price to come down.  The 44-tonner was too light weight for them as you know so it didn't last long before they moved to the Alco S-2.

I may write up an article for submission to OGR, if they are interested, detailing my plan to put in streets.  Here is a proof of concept photo that I'm pretty happy with thus far.

@EmpireBuilderDave posted:

Has anyone built a switching layout with auto uncoupling that works well and have tips?

Yes, I have built and operate a switching layout which has reliable automatic uncoupling AND walking-speed coupling (NO crashing together with cars taking off at warp speed). Oh, and I use Lionel-style "claw" couplers, (the MTH version with the pivoting plate between the axles, NOT the "thumb-tack" version).

I use Lionel Fastrack and have installed their electromagnetic uncouplers actuated with 14VAC.

To facilitate slow-speed coupling I invented "car brakes" which hold a standing car securely in place so an  approaching car is able to push with enough force to actuate the coupler. A PIC is worth a thousand words.

Implemented with a Tortoise Switch Machine (the green thing) and a couple bits of brass tubing:

I've been using these things since June 2019 and their operation is pretty much bullet-proof.

@geysergazer posted:

Yes, I have built and operate a switching layout which has reliable automatic uncoupling AND walking-speed coupling (NO crashing together with cars taking off at warp speed). Oh, and I use Lionel-style "claw" couplers, (the MTH version with the pivoting plate between the axles, NOT the "thumb-tack" version).

I use Lionel Fastrack and have installed their electromagnetic uncouplers actuated with 14VAC.

To facilitate slow-speed coupling I invented "car brakes" which hold a standing car securely in place so an  approaching car is able to push with enough force to actuate the coupler. A PIC is worth a thousand words.

Wow, that's an awesome design for the car brakes, thanks for sharing!  I plan to use NJI solenoids but that style relay would work just as well as your Tortoise I would think.

Good point on the 14 vac on the uncouplers - I wired them to the track but think (and you've confirmed) I should run them with a separate power supply.

@geysergazer posted:

Yes, I have built and operate a switching layout which has reliable automatic uncoupling AND walking-speed coupling (NO crashing together with cars taking off at warp speed). Oh, and I use Lionel-style "claw" couplers, (the MTH version with the pivoting plate between the axles, NOT the "thumb-tack" version).

I use Lionel Fastrack and have installed their electromagnetic uncouplers actuated with 14VAC.

To facilitate slow-speed coupling I invented "car brakes" which hold a standing car securely in place so an  approaching car is able to push with enough force to actuate the coupler. A PIC is worth a thousand words.

Implemented with a Tortoise Switch Machine (the green thing) and a couple bits of brass tubing:

I've been using these things since June 2019 and their operation is pretty much bullet-proof.

I remember you posted your car brake system when you devised it.

@EmpireBuilderDave posted:

Wow, that's an awesome design for the car brakes, thanks for sharing!  I plan to use NJI solenoids but that style relay would work just as well as your Tortoise I would think.

Good point on the 14 vac on the uncouplers - I wired them to the track but think (and you've confirmed) I should run them with a separate power supply.

I'm sure any solenoid mechanism will work with adjustment of the fulcrum/lever-length to produce the required movement of the plunger. I used the Tortoise because they are very simple to wire (a stall-motion motor so a SPDT switch and a pair of wires is all) and very easy to adjust distance of movement. Plus quiet and unobtrusive movement. I use MTH DCS so cannot wire anything into the track buss unless a choke coil is included in the circuit plus accessory power is available at my tiny control panel which means just one wire from a momentary switch to the remote uncoupler. I use miniature toggle switches for everything.

My "control panel" such as it is:

@coach joe posted:

I remember you posted your car brake system when you devised it.

Yup, and they really do work well. The only problem I have with coupling is that a small percentage of MTH couplers are out-of-tolerance and won't "drop the pin" to latch the coupler because one of the two knuckles is shaped slightly wrong with respect to the other. I have a drawer with several trucks with offending couplers.