I like the ones where you stop in front of their table and chck out their prices only

to find out they are so high you could not reach them with a 40' extension ladder.

and then they come back with, "make me an offer". HA!

Ummmmmm   no. Let's run those numbers again.  100 tables, 5 tables occupied by crabby vendors, 95 tables occupied by phantom vendors...therefore only 5% of the vendors were crabby therefore they were in the minority and 95% of the vendors were not (crabby or present)......actually a 100 table meet with an occupancy rate of 5% isn't a meet it's a disaster and at the moment I don't have statistics for things like that.

I agree, especially since most of the time I'm just "looking". If I get a comment on evey item I look at, I quickly move on.

What is funny is, that some of the people described on here, are probably reading

this thread, and don't think it applies to them!  That may include me!

I used to frequent a hardware store where the 8 clerks asked you individually if they could help you. Then when I found what I wanted to buy, nobody was around.

I think what angers me more is I know he purchased the locomotive for $500.00. And I know it was from a group that cleaned out the Lionel repair facility. So A) I know there is something wrong with the engine that nobody has seen yet and B) 3,000.00? really? you have to gouge someone that much? Its not even in good shape.  

Then to sit with a stern face and act insulted that I asked... come on...

Somebody needs to take this guy outside and hit him with his own EVO...

There are those people who do not like to be solicited to buy at a train show.  My son doesn't like vendors in any setting and simply likes to be left alone.  Why?  Because he is experienced in what he wants and doesn't need the assistance in the first place.  He would likely characterize the salesman's approach as BS in that case.  Additionally, he is so cynical that he suspects anyone with an attitude of helpfulness is simply there to force a sale.  He pays full price for anything he buys because he doesn't like to deal or talk.  If a vendor was willing to deal, he would never even know it.  Well, if some people want to be that way, great! Selling trains at a show is unlike working in a clothing store.  The customers at a train show for the most part are not there primarily just to browse styles and see what's new and come back next week when they are ready to buy.  Of course, there are exceptions, but unlike a clothing store that will be open the next day for any sale, the train show will be packed-up at the end of the day.  Now if a vendor was helpful and suggested that he could deal or pointed out some of the quality features that made the item more valuable for those who may not have noticed or were aware, that is a benefit.  Not everyone is an experienced buyer who knows what he/she is looking for.  Of course, we can take what a vendor says with a grain of salt if we choose because, after all, we are adults who realize that puffing is a part of the selling process.  I mean, it's not like a salesperson trying to get you to buy a car.  As long as there is no fraud involved, it's not what you say, but how you say it that matters.  Not pushy, but with a helpful attitude.  Now if some people find that to be BS, well they probably weren't going to buy in the first place; otherwise, they'd put the salesman's pitch aside and just buy it.  From the vendor's point of view, it is worth the chance to try to sell the item by engaging the customer in a friendly way.  At least there is the chance that the item will be sold, once the potential buyer realizes how valuable or rare it is.  And if he doesn't buy, the customer has some additional knowledge about the item that was lacking to judge whether a competitor's similar item is properly priced for its quality.

this ordeal works both ways. have a friend that owns a train store. he was at a one day show and selling Williams "Stump Pullers" for $99.00. They listed for $350.00.

They were Mac units or dash 9s or similar locomotives. He had a guy come up to him and ask if he would take $75 for the same loco. Really?? There are times to dicker and times to not. Pay the $99.00 and be glad to get a$350 loco for a well discounted price.

This comment is just for "browsers."

No vendor knows whether a potential customer is a buyer or browser.  If my hunch is right, though, most people don't travel hundreds of miles to a TCA show in York with only lunch money in their billfold and no credit card.  Anybody is a potential customer, including the so-called "browsers."

Traction tires are the most aggravating part of this hobby for me.

Joe

I think the reason that many buyers find high asking prices aggravating is that they are unwilling to bargain.  It is just not in our the nature of our "fixed" price culture.  

I always ask a seller for his or her best price when I see something that I really want.  I also ask sellers:  "Would you take $XX for for your item".  For example, I bought two MTH passenger cars at the last Cal-Stewart show.  The seller had them priced at $130 for the pair which I thought was very high.  At he end of the show I asked him if we would take $80 for the pair.  We settled on a price of $90 and we both were happy.  He told me I made his day because he didn't have to take them home.

When I am seller, I expect buyers to ask for a price reduction.  Serious buyers always do this in my experience.  Therefore, I try to figure out my bottom line price and then mark the item a little higher to allow for room between my bottom line and and the asking.  At the Cal-Stwart show I sold an engine for $160.  My bottom line was $150.  My asking was $200.  I firmly believe that if I had asked for $150 I would have ended up selling the engine for around $100 if at all.

Train show buyers need to learn to ask sellers for lower prices and not get upset by a high asking price.  

quote:

Selling trains at a show is unlike working in a clothing store.

I've held tables at train shows for a very long time. It the areas I've lived, there isn't a whole lot of difference.  Maybe things are different where you live. People want to be left alone to browse. They ask for help if they want it. A simple greeting is more than enough.

Amen. I get so sick of a running narrative for every item my eyes might possibly have passed over. I've walked away from tables I might have bought from if they'd just shut the [bleep] up...

J Daddy,

"I think what angers me more is I know he purchased the locomotive for $500.00. And I know it was from a group that cleaned out the Lionel repair facility. So A) I know there is something wrong with the engine that nobody has seen yet and B) 3,000.00? really? you have to gouge someone that much? Its not even in good shape.  

Then to sit with a stern face and act insulted that I asked... come on...

Somebody needs to take this guy outside and hit him with his own EVO...

"I quit buying from him a long time ago after the first passenger car shorted out! It's junk from Lionel returns he buys for $3/lb.

Your buddy, however likes to repair the stuff he thinks he gets a good deal on.  ;(

Joe Barker brought up the subject of traction tires, as his " aggravating and irritating subject"  Gee, I never have a problem with traction tires and I like them a lot.  I have a lot of uphills and downhills on my layout and I do need the added traction.  These new "can motors" that are now standard on everything are generally stron enough to handle any overload created by pulling extra heavy trains up grades.

But, several years ago I started using Weaver traction tires and any problems I had from that time were gone.  Weaver tires have a "tread pattern" in them and they grip the rails, move about a bit in their channels on the wheels and  just readjust and pull like crazy.  They also last, it seems like forever.

No aggravation or irritation.

Paul Fischer

I haven't sold at too many model train shows over the years, but I do recall people buying stuff from me and then saying they did so because I let them alone to think of what they were gonna do and what they wanted. I always say howdy if I can and, "If you have any questions, feel free to ask," and that's that.

I guess it depends on the seller's technique and everyone is different.  If I were a seller and sensed after one try that the buyer wanted to be left alone, one would have to be the village idiot to keep hounding the buyer on every item.  I have yet to experience that.  In fact, if someone were to do that to me, I wouldn't walk away.  I'd just say: "just looking, thanks."  What I'm talking about is the seller who could care less about a customer but still wants to sell merchandise yet doesn't try to find out what the customer is interested in--he just sits there.  Sometimes no price is marked on the item and the customer has to ask what it is.  Does that mean there is room for negotiation?  Clothing retailers let the style and cut of new clothes sell themselves at a fixed price.  Short of the customer asking if there is a discount, he/she pays full price.  At train shows when selling used merchandise, the prices can fluctuate unlike a brand new suit at a clothing store which is sold at a fixed tagged price.  There is an expectation of negotiation at train shows that doesn't exist at clothing stores.  Short of the customer asking for a discount at the train show, the seller would facilitate a sale if he would introduce the negotiation process in a friendly manner.  I once went to a show and marveled at the old Santa Fe engines on display.  They had various prices and were in excellent condition.  The seller came over without my asking and pointed out that some of them were more valuable depending on whether or not they had vent tops or louvers and also for some of them they had boxes (which we all know augments the value).  Now, for the more experienced train buffs among us, they might have been insulted by someone telling them the obvious, maybe because they have a big ego or have a high opinion of their own expertise.  Of course, the seller doesn't know that--he just wants to sell and tries to point out things that might have been overlooked by the customer in judging whether to buy the item from that seller.  But for me, I found that information interesting and worthy of corroboration.  After looking over the engines, I left and thanked the seller for his help.  I learned something that day about Santa Fe engines.  The seller didn't get me to buy a Santa Fe, but that is the chance he took as a seller.  But if I ever want one or have a friend who does, I know where to look.  As an aside, most people who suggest that they have bought from a particular seller who was less aggressive in his approach were probably going to buy from him anyway because the price was right or the more aggressive guy would not budge on price.  For me, if the price is right, I don't care if Lucifer was the vendor, I'd buy.

John I am sure the guy just went on the Bay and saw the EVO with the cars for 3G's and decided that his engine alone was worth 3G's.

Part of the reason I don't go to train shows much anymore. 

quote:

I guess it depends on the seller's technique and everyone is different.  If I were a seller and sensed after one try that the buyer wanted to left alone, one would have to be the village idiot to keep hounding the buyer on every item.

Have you set up at many shows (or sold men's clothing)?

Your last post seems to be completely from a buyer's perspective.

I learned a long time ago in a lot of various types of antique and collector shows, etc., to bargain, to negotiate.  I don't see how you can buy an automobile if you can't or won't be willing to negotiate, and hard.   Certainly the most offensive buying situation you can find yourself in, is buying a car.  If the price is not double what I will pay in a

train show (then, all you can do is, walk on), I will make my offer.    Of course, sometimes, as suffered by the original poster, the price is so off-putting, and if you REALLY WANT the item, you can get frustrated.  But losing your cool and getting into an argument with the vendor will accomplish nothing.

At military shows I used to hit on the East coast, there was this one 'dealer' who would show up with some really amazing WW2 stuff. The thing was he never sold anything. He had comical prices on his stuff. It was really good stuff, but he was asking orders of magnitud more than what you could find similar items for if you just waited long enough. After seeing him a couple of times, I didn't even bother looking his table over when I'd see him at shows as I think he was just there to buy from other dealers.

Someone once, out of sheer frustration, opened his wallet and said, "Fine, I want that item bad enough," and started pulling out a wad of bills. You'd have thought this guy just had a gun put to his head, he was totally unprepared to have to - God forbid- part with anything, and started to panic. He sputtered for a second and then said the price tag was wrong and that it was instead a much higher figure. "Fine," said the man with the money. Looking back, I think the guy with the wad of bills was just making a point. In the end, the 'seller' refused to sell the item at all.

THEN, the show had the right to boot the guy from the show as there was a different rate for people bringing display-only tables and he'd violated that. I think they'd been looking to rid themselves of a guy who'd been driving buyers nuts for several years. Never saw him again at any show.

This is the "EVO", Die cast shell, highly detailed with a nice light show.

I am a buyer, not a seller of either trains or clothes.  As a buyer I really don't mind having someone come up to me to point out something I might have missed on the table.  Some buyers, I suppose, have to think and contemplate the purchase which is certainly understandable.  They have trouble thinking and listening at the same time.  Just listen first, say thanks, and then think--it's really not that hard (a touch of intentional sarcasm).  I never let a salesperson, no matter how rude, distract me from my goal.  If he has something I'm interested in and is willing to deal, I'll buy from him--I don't have to like the seller, just get a deal from him.  As far as clothing is concerned, a friend of mine owns and operates a men's clothing store.  I would probably purchase 6 or 7 suits from him every year.  He never pressured me to buy anything.  He knew he had a steady customer and I would be back even if I was just "browsing."  But he didn't just sit there-- we would talk and sometimes he'd tell me about some good deals that he would have in the upcoming week.  When I would buy a suit, he wouldn't simply say OK thanks a lot.  He would ask if I needed a shirt or might show me a matching tie for the suit.  Was he pushy--heck no!  His tone was more accommodating rather than aggressive, but he was interested in selling because that was his business and I fully understood that.  One thing was for sure:  there was never any negotiation ever.  I paid the sticker price so to speak because that was the nature of his clothing business.  He wasn't selling clothes at an undisclosed price, or used clothing that he wanted to get rid of "at best offer." I say if you are a seller, fully expecting to get a set price for an item at a train show on a take-it-or-leave-it basis, then maybe you should go into the clothing business instead.  If the seller is approachable or is interested in me as a prospective buyer, I would fully expect him to come to me and try to sell me something.  That's why he is there.  I fully realize that some guys are rude and pushy.  I have dealt with New York City camera dealer employees who will try to sell me stuff I don't want or need.  Unless the deal is great for what I really want, I refuse to patronize them at all.  But that goes with the territory, I guess.  What I'm really suggesting is that there has to be a balance.  No one likes a pushy salesperson, so don't buy from him, especially if he doesn't have what you want in the first place.  But I would expect some sales pitch at a train show, just to show  they are interested in me as a customer.  Then we can go on from there. 

Now from a seller's perspective:  I am an author and have been to book signings to sell my books.  There were others selling their books, too.  They would simply sit there and wait for the customer to buy.  When someone came close to me and look at me, I would say "hello" and immediately ask where they were from.  95% of the time, they'd stop and tell me and sometimes they might be from my area.  Or maybe it was a place that I visited. Maybe they were wearing a football shirt of a team from my area or a college logo shirt from a school with which I was familiar--anything to start a conversation.  After a short banter, I would tell them about my book "if they were interested."  Not everyone that I talked with bought my book but nobody bought the other author's books at all because they didn't even try to sell.  Once I established a good rapport, I was able to at least make the attempt.  I figured if I didn't try, I'd go home with boxes of books like the others.   I didn't sell everything, and if someone wasn't interested, I'd just say "hope you have a pleasant day and nice talking with you."  Sometimes I got repeat customers who would e-mail my publisher, telling him that they wanted more copies.  I would never have had that opportunity if I just sat there with a long face all afternoon.  Now why can't all train vendors be like that???????

As a seller, I will often try to engage somebody who is looking at my table with a friendly, "Hi, how's it going?" or maybe ask them if they are looking for anything specific. If they just want to be left alone to browse, fine - I'll leave them alone, but a friendly gesture can't hurt. Besides, I sometimes get into some interesting conversations. It gets boring sitting behind the table drinking coffee and reading the Wall Street Journal, which is what I do when there's nobody to talk to. 

Southwest Hiawatha is right on point in his seller's philosophy, and you know why?  Because he is a "people" person.  If he shows an interest in the customer and makes him feel important enough just as a human being to talk with, instead of merely someone to sell to, he might get a sale from that fellow.  You got to make the customers feel they are important as people not just customers.

J Daddy

Breathe and smile. It's supposed to be fun. There are people looking to make a buck everywhere. The things that bother me are simple. My mistakes. My lack of planning, so I can spend more time on the hobby. And lastly, I wish a certain manufacturer made higher quality holiday products, since they get all the cool licenses...

Please don't let greedy, or angry, or just plain unhappy folks put a damper on the hobby you share with your son

1. If I don't like the price, I move on.

2. I hate replacing traction tires.

3. I really dislike opening up early MPC baby Madison cars.

Peter

Thanks for the kind words, but I'm actually a cynical, paranoid, misanthropic sociopath with excellent acting skills. I'm not sure if I was always this way or if it evolved as an adaptation to my career in the diplomatic service. 

I must agree with the author of this thread. Many in this hobby know how to really take great advantage of others and that is not only unfortunate, but it is rather dubious as well.

Anyone who has been in this hobby long enough knows what to look for alright and will avoid those that are simply in this to make a buck.

( By the way, I fault no one for trying to make a little on the side so long as they are fair and reasonable ).

The most irritating thing for me in this hobby is finding the patience to deal with little issues and problems. Like purchasing a brand new locomotive and having a ditch light not working.........I mean really!!! LOL

Really, Hiawatha?????  A cynical, paranoid, misanthropic sociopath?  My, you must be a great actor.  Well, the longer you stay retired from diplomatic service, your true self will, undoubtedly, return.  LOL. I don't believe that you are as disingenuous as your self-deprecating comments suggest.  You'd probably be a guy with whom anyone would enjoy discussing trains--well, at least you appear that way to me.  Got anything for sale????  Have a great day!

He's running a "museum" ...not a sellers table.

Mark

When I first entered the hobby I went to a local train show. Two gentlemen were there from State College, PA. They wanted to sell me a beautiful PRR Tuscan GG1 passenger set. I was a raw rookie and had NO IDEA of train values. I didn't buy it. Turned out later than I found the same set for a full $250 less than their asking price. I have always wondered if they smelled a new fish in the water or if there was some other legitimate reason for the price difference. I have no problem with people charging what they want provided they are not deliberately trying to take advantage of somebody and/or misrepresent their wares. 

This has been a very interesting thread! At the October York meet, I didn't have any intentions of buying anything, just there to spend time with family and friends, but in the white or red hall, don't remember which, I saw a Weaver Pa. M1a, it was priced at $150.00, my first thought was what's wrong with it? I asked the fellow who was sitting there the price seemed low, was there something wrong with it? In a very gruff manner he said "The price is the price" no other info... So I walked away, latter in the afternoon there was another fellow at the table besides the first fellow I had spoken to earlier, turned out he was the owner of the piece, he took the time to tell me about the engine, when he had purchased it, that it was in good operating condition and was surprised it had not sold! After we spoke a bit more, I pulled out my wallet and payed the asking price as it was an incredible value to me! I never asked to test it, took his word, and as yet tried to power it up, I am sure it is all he said it was....  He conveyed a sense of trust and honesty, that came across in our conversation.... So there still are some great people that sell at the meets, just take the time to seek them out! As to some of the others........

Now that you mention it, I've got a lot of stuff for sale! Some of it is already on the For Sale board and I'll be putting up a lot more in the next few weeks. If you've got any specific wants or areas of interest, shoot me an e-mail - address is in my profile. From your screen name I would guess you're a PRR guy. I have a bunch of engines and rolling stock from the Pennsy, Lehigh Valley, and maybe some other Pennsylvania lines. Let me know if you'd like a preview - I'm working on getting it all photographed so I can post it. 

Yeah, and that's how the people running the show were finally able to get rid of this guy, they'd been getting complaints about him for years for setting up 'sales' tables but never wanting to sell anything.

I've often wondered why nonody's ever sued someone at a show like that for raising a price for a certain individual (in military collectible show circles, we call that an 'A-hole tax') or refusing to sell to someone. I've seen the latter behavior many times over the years.

I also walked into a comic book store once and saw someone looking to buy one of those 'collectible trading card game' cards that apparently was very rare, for his kid. The guy at the counter must have been the prototype for the 'Comic book guy' character on the Simpsons, and he quizzed the father, saying later he was "determining if he was worthy enough to buy that card," and decided the father's money alone wasn't good enough.

I didn't have a dog in that hunt, so to speak, but even I wanted to jump the counter and give that comic book jerk what-for. If that father had knocked the comic book guy into the middle of next week, I'd have told the cops I didn't see a thing. I was surpised how calmly the father took all that, maybe he'd had the same thing happen before then?