Old wooden and metal boxcar kits- what scale were they aimed at?

Without seeing them, this is a guess:

Walthers and/or All Nation kits, 1/4" scale. Back in the day, I don't think there was a much of market for craftsman kits in the "traditional" sizes, although Walters did market shorty heavyweight passenger car kits.

Rusty

Metal sided ones could also be Athearn and even Lobaugh kits.

The possibilities of brands of all wood kits is very long list......

Not aware of any being anything other than full scale for freight cars.

Maybe if you can get a few pictures we can ID them for you.

About the only wood/metal kits I can remember that were undersized for 1/4" scale were the Walthers shorty, silver side passenger car kits. They made a few versions specifically for 3-rail and were shortened to take tight curves.

I don't know if I ever saw one assembled to judge whether they were compressed in length only, or if height and width were also diminished. I'm betting the width was scale since they probably used the same milled, clerestory roof sections as the scale versions of these cars.

There was, of course, also the Piker "observation" car kit that sat on one 6 wheel truck. I think that was available in O as well as HO.

As Martin said, I don't ever recall seeing anything other than full-scale in the freight car lines, unless you count the "beer can" tank car kits for which you provided your own empty beer can.

Jim

They were cut down in length and had a flattened clerestory roof milled to match "Madison" cars, but they were/are scale width and height.

I've built 4(?) and have a diner and a baggage car kit sitting on the shelf in my office for sale right now,  

Thanks for the extra info, Martin. I know I have one or two of those kits somewhere under the layout, but they might as well be on the moon as far as finding them anytime soon is concerned. 

Jim

I'm thinking about turning the baggage car into a trolley freight motor; I have ends that I can use, but I need to locate some of the old Walthers small side doors for that project box before I start going down that road.

O27 is not a scale per se.   Lionel tends to build stuff to work on their curves.   Which is fine.   That is who they are.   Hence most if not all 027 cars and equipment are closer to S scale (3/16 inch to the foot) than O Scale (1/4 inch to the foot).  

Most kits are O scale.   There are a few old ones out there that are actually on the big side (17/64) from the 30s.   I would say most wooden/metal kits from All Nation, Athearn, Reynolds, Main Line, Walthers etc are O scale.

Thanks for the input guys! The somewhat built and kits are all in a box that a guy came across...he's searching to find out what's a good price for each depending their condition, completeness and current build apsect.

I know...it's more of a smaller size thing.

Interesting discussion elsewhere on these kits.  The most common and best in my opinion are the Athearn and All-Nation.  There is very little difference; the All- Nation kits use thicker sheet metal.  They can be had all day long for forty bucks plus shipping on eBay, or for between five and fifteen bucks at 2- rail shows.

There is one on eBay right now in kit form for a grand.  We are pretty sure the seller knows its actual worth, but is hoping for a truly ignorant person with a lot of bucks to step up.  It joins the $25,000 Challenger in that category.

I find myself picking these cars up cheaply from time to time and happily installing prewar or postwar trucks on them and running them as is.  Most of mine need some TLC,especially the Westbrook cars as they didn't take abuse too well!  Anyway, I like them at least as much as the two or three Atlas steam era classics cars I have.  If I wasn't running down to 042 curves, I'd keep some with the scale trucks and couplers as well.

If you are looking to price old kits.   I notice at shows pristine kits (all the parts and instructions there) are priced at 15-25 generally unless it is a rare odd ball thing or the seller thinks he has a treasure.    Most 2-railers are not too worried about the look of the box, as long as all parts are there.

"Junquer" cars  (partially built or beatup) are worth less.   They often take more work to get right than starting with a new kit.    Realistically about 5-10 apiece is all I would pay for these depending on condition.   

But it all comes down to what you want to do and work on.

I am a 2 railer and the All Nation, Athearn and Walthers kits are absolutely my favorite cars. I have some of the newer Lionel PS-1s and Atlas cars too. They are well detailed but I still prefer the old technology. call me crazy.

I have 16 on my layout now and around 40 still in the boxes. I just wish I had one of the 4-6-0 locos too!

You can also use them for kitbashing. I do not like the old pot metal trucks though, I prefer the IM trucks with IM metal wheels.

Some, as one I was interested in on eBay, go higher, so I passed.  There have been

some uncommon road names made in them, more so than what you see produced

by the Big Two.  This was a U.P. (Upper Peninsula) roadname.

This is an Athearn kit that I assembled. Got the kit on eBay for less than $20.
I used weaver die cast trucks and couplers.  

Jim, I bought some of the Walthers shorty cars and the gas/electric shorty in the 70's to run with my Lionel Madison cars. They were the right length but didn't match up well because they were wider the the Lionel cars. The only one I kept was the gas/electric. Don

Hi Brother Love, there is a kit 4-6-0 on E-bay right now. They think it was a Varney. Don

I have lots of old wood and metal kits.  I have a scale length gas electric to build along with several passenger cars both built and unbuilt.  They are mostly Walthers.  I also have Walthers, All-Nation and Athearn freight cars.  With a little work they are really very nice cars in my opinion.  Usually I switch out the trucks and if the old Monarch couplers are bad, I'll use Kadee's.  Great stuff!