The Other Buying Source Verses the OGR Buy Board

Sir,

Like you, some of my best deals, buys, and quality of product have come from OGR member sales.  I've bought almost all of my high end purchases from this forum and gotten great deals without haggling.

 

I've only bought a few things off of other sources.  Disappointed in one, but I really wanted the item so I over looked it.  I also went through the, 'it was fine when I shipped it' routine from a seller.  Another auction source (not ebay) has served me faithfully for several purchases.  Every item has been better than described.

 

There  is always a chance you won't get what you think it should be, or the seller misrepresents the item.  Even on this forum.  I think the big difference between OGR forum sales is the sellers are 'train people' also.  Still a huge subjective view on grading quality.  

 

I also try to buy from sources that only charge exact shipping.  Doesn't make since to buy a $20 car and then add a minimum charge of $10 for shipping and handling. 

There are lots of online buying sources that are not the OGR forum. And those "other" sites are filled with sellers who know nothing about the things they are trying sell.

Good morning Brian.  Sorry to hear you got stuck with something less than you expected.

 

I buy from the OGR sale site and only one auction site, the bay.  I don't bid unless their rating is above 99.5 and they have done considerable amount of sales.  I guess I am lucky but I have been satisfied with my purchases so far.

 

Steve, Lady and Tex

I have had great dealings here on the OGR buy/sell.

But I must say that I have been using the major online auction site since 1999 with only a very few problems. And in the end all were settled to my satisfaction. But there are things to look for when buying online. Seller history and feedback. Good multiple photos. Good complete description.

Brian, sorry about your situation.

For the mutual benefit of your fellow OGR  forum members, how about disclosing the name of the other internet buy/sell source that you referenced in your post.

Thank you.

The OGR B/S Forum is my first choice, because it is for all of us hobbyists. I have never been disappointed.

 

The "other source" is OK and I have had good luck there, as well. But, I have more defenses, because it is less certain exactly with whom I am dealing, although most are above-board.

 

OGR gets a 10/10 and the other an 8/10 in my book.

Brian,

   Lesson learned the hard way buddy, at the very least I want to see a close up picture of what I am purchasing, especially with my Tin Plate.  In reality I want to hold the item in my hands if I can.  Purchase from the OGR members and stay away form the other guys when you are purchasing used.

PCRR/Dave

 

 

All I wanted for satisfaction from the site sponsor was that the seller's record be marked with a complaint status so that other buyers would be aware that he does not have a clean record. I did not ask for a financial adjustment. This did not happen and to me this tells me a great deal about this site.

 

I posted my comments strictly so that members who like me may not be regular users of buying sources other than OGR would be more aware of what can happen.

 

The problems with this car can be corrected and it is something that was important to me to add to a new passenger train. So I chock this up as a lesson learned and have not lost any sleep over it.

 

Thanks for all of your comments.

 {added emphasis mine}

 

If we are indeed talking about eBay, I think your "mid-point" (as I read it) situation is the problem.

 

If you wanted a refund and to return the item, I can't see how that would not have gone your way since the item was not as represented (assuming it was listed as "new", if condition is a listing parameter with the site you are referring to).

 

Since you are interested in keeping the item even with it's flaws, that's where it becomes cloudy.  I know you said you were not looking for financial reimbursement, but what else is the site supposed to do?  (if it was the bay, you of course have feedback at your disposal, so you could do what you propose yourself - you could give a positive rating , but less than 5 stars for certain categories) 

 

I assume the reason you want to keep this item is that it's not seen for sale too often.  Those circumstances can't readily be addressed by a mediator in a timely fashion.

 

It's harder for the site to referee something that lands in the middle vs a transaction that is either 100% (acceptable enough to keep both buyer and seller happy) or 0% (poor enough that a full return/refund is warranted).

 

-Dave

If you purchased the item though Ebay, you can leave negative feedback for the seller.
When I am buying on Ebay, I take the seller's neutral and/or negative feedback very seriously.

If an auction does not have good pictures, I skip it.
If the box isn't shown, then I do not assume the item has a box.

What CW & David said. eBay has a very good system for dispute in place, unlike just buying from some other hobbyist. Brian wants to both chastiz the seller while agreeing with the sale.

 

You can not logically do both, if you like it ,leave it, if you love it, buy it, no room in the middle. 

Fred

 

 

People selling quality items on ebay, especially if they are used, post LOTS of high-quality zoomed-in pictures to PROVE that what they are selling is in the specified condition.  If it is a desirable item, those get bid up to top dollar.

 

Sellers with something to hide only post one or two photos, which may be blurry or using lighting that makes it hard to see the condition.  You are taking a big risk if you bid on those and they usually sell for a lower final price, if they get any bids at all.

How do you know that Brian had a problem on ebay and not another site?

I have had a bad deal on ebay and was satisfied because I could still use the freight car I purchased. It was for H.O. but it came as an O gauge freight car, I do a little in H.O. but mainly O gauge trains. So ebay is buyer beware!

I use Choo Choo Auctions for most of my purchases other then brand new.

 

Most of all before buying something used, make sure you know what you are getting!!

 

Lee Fritz

When purchasing things on Ebay, you must carefully examine the pictures and purposefully look for why they are selling it!  If you cannot see one of the ladders on the car, you assume its broken.  If you cannot see the couplers, then you must assume they are bad and bid accordingly.  Sellers many times take pictures to make their product look THE BEST it can.  If something is broken they just hide it somehow.  Its good buying practice to bid based on exactly what you see and what they say is good about it.  If they didn't mention that the lights in the caboose still work, then I assume they don't and bid lower.  

Good point, but if you read my post I never stated that, this would be your assumption.

fred

Good points.  Another thing I do is ask a lot of questions to seller.  Either more detailed photo's or explanations as to condition, paint, etc.  Usually I get my questions answered and photo I requested sent to me. 

 

If any "red flags" show up with an item I am interested in I just pass.  It is not worth taking a risk.

 

Steve, Lady and Tex

"Flash" has it right.  You do have to look closely and ask questions.  People sell train

items from estates or flea market finds and are clueless what gauge/scale they are or what "gauge/scale" is.  I have returned, and luckily got refunds, for HO kits described as O, and got in a kit of a few sticks and plans that's contents had probably been built into a model, by an estate seller who knew not what he was looking at.  My money was refunded and they didn't want it back, so I guess I can scratchbuild from the plans.

Unfortunately, the population of this forum, and the material available, is much

smaller than what is pulled out of attics by sellers on the broader site, so......

A couple of posts have mentioned about questions asked which is key.   In O gauge, you have to ASK if its 3 or 2 rail if not mentioned.  If no box pictured or stated then ASK.  If no mfr mentioned then ASK.  You get the idea because a lot of posts talk about ignorant sellers selling stuff they claim to be unsure of.   Any question you have about any item in other sites should be answered by the seller.   If you don't get an answer or don't like it, WALK AWAY!   Make sure you are sure about your bid so you won't have any surprises.

Unless the picture or pictures were really bad and blurry it should have been easy to tell if the car was 2 or 3 rail. Of course that doesn't let the seller off. He should have accurately described any damage to the car. One doesn't have to know about trains to spend a few minutes looking closely at an item to see if there is anything wrong with it.

 

I often look for trains on Ebay and my experience has been that good deals are few and far between but I am a 2 railer and I for the most part look for 2 rail. Many auctions are not labeled if they are 2 rail or 3 rail, and yes it is a good idea to ask the seller but I really don't like waiting the one to two days for the seller to get back to me. I have become quite adept at being able to tell if an item is 2 rail or 3 rail. First thing I look for is the couplers. If it has the "lobster claws" it is definitely 3 rail. Next thing I look for is the flanges. Of course clear pictures are needed to tell by looking at the flanges. Anything without clear pictures I just walk on by.

 

Recently, there was something I really wanted on the bay and the auction had a opening price of $80 with a buy it now for $120 with $20 shipping. I should have used the buy it now but instead I was just about to put a bid in for $100 when the seller took away that option. So I didn't bid but I watched the auction. No one bought it. The seller re-listed the item this time with an opening bid of $100 and nothing else. I bid $110 because I thought no one wanted it. Of course I lost the item to someone who did a little higher at the last minute. I didn't obey my rule of always bidding 20% higher than what I want to pay because I hate losing an auction by $2 to snipers. I really kicked myself for that one. Next time I know better. Always expect to be sniped and assume nothing.

I fail to understand why when someone gets "ripped off" on Ebay they feel the need to come on the forum and bash Ebay. If it's a chronic problem with that particular seller,

A: Don't buy from them anymore!

B: Report them to Ebay or if serious enough the local State or District Attorneys office and then perhaps post a friendly heads up warning on the forum concerning that individual.

What exactly to the folks who come on the forum ranting and raving about a bad deal on Ebay expect us to do about it?

If you get constantly ripped off on Ebay maybe you need to do a better job of due diligence before you buy again.

If you've only been ripped off once on a train deal, welcome to the club, it's happened just about all of us at some point.

Once isn't the end of the world, it doesn't make Ebay the EVIL EMPIRE, it doesn't mean all sellers are in league with the devil and it doesn't mean all buyers are stupid.

Does it suck getting ripped off?, yes it does, do you have the right to be angry?, sure you do, do you have a need to vent or commiserate with your fellow train men?, sure do, go for it but the bad deal doesn't mean Ebay is bad but the sheer volume of items and sellers means that a few bad apples will show up and sometimes we're unlucky enough to cross paths with them.

 

Jerry

First, Jerry, I started this thread to alert folks like me who do not have much experience buying outside of the OGR Forum that you have to be ultra cautious when buying ANYTHING on internet selling sources. THIS THREAD'S MAIN PURPOSE WAS NOT TO VENT OR COMPLAIN. You misunderstood the thread's purpose. In order for people to understand, I had to lay out the events as they occurred.

 

Hudson je1:

 

The photo did not show the trucks, hence there was no way of knowing the 2-rail/3 rial difference.

 

Not posting the site name is not juvenile or childish, as it is irrelevant. I would think that Forum members can figure this out anyway.

 

Would I use this site to buy again, certainly. I am going to ask a lot more questions and take the good advice that many of you have provided, absolutely yes. If this thread has opened the eyes of just one Forum member, then it has served it's purpose well.

 

Again, thanks to all of you for your advice and opinions.

Thinking eBay is some sort of banned word or subject is wrong. Rich posted many years ago there is nothing wrong about talking about eBay but there is something wrong with ridiculing buyers/sellers on eBay of going off on tangents about eBay's policies and charges.

It always amazes me how the original post transforms into another subject over the course of several people.

 

PTC, I understand your original intent of this post.  Congrats on being in OGR magazine and I really enjoyed the article.

I will resort to Ebay when I am trying to find something that is hard to find.

Otherwise the OGR Forum is where its at!

Very well stated, my sentiments exactly

Thank you Jerry

David:

 

The childish reference was in no way referring to your comments as it first appeared long before your post. But thanks for clearing this up for everyone else. 

 

Oh, I see.  I was just trying to help.  I hope you have better luck in the future.

-I've purchased from the bay and had a few large postage cost issues{compared to what it actually cost}, 2 missrepresentations, 2 damaged items - not the sellers fault, 1 lost package{a shippers fault} and all the rest of the nearly high side of 400 transactions were fine{bought a vehicle thru there too}.

-All the purchases thru this site- 100% happy.{Thank good folks!}

-and I recently tried Dash...just one auction...fine transaction thru a forum sponsor here, but I like the bay better for less add on costs on my end....still was a good experience.

 

Any transaction should always have the info you want or the pics you need....if it isn't supplied up front - then ask...9 times out of 10 they will happily obligue you, the 10th time they won't and you walk away....woulda bought a '49 pontiac torpedo if it weren't for the pics he sent{no- not an O scale one}.

Adman, that's assuming it is the bay he's talking about...there are other auction sites...

 

 

PTC, while I'm sorry for the way that one went down, and I'm not trying to tell you what to do here, but please ask questions even when they seem dumb when it comes to auction items, or ask for more pics if the ones they supply aren't good enough- ok, who's tried of the dang fuzzy/blurred shots that still go up on a certain site....come on, retake one already and post it....I can far more easily handle "item is untested" from someone who's selling a bunch of train stuff than I can a fuzzy pic{biased opinion here- sorry}.

We buy on ebay because lets face it we get a good deal most of the time way under market, even with the few repairs that are needed still dont do bad, i bet even by the time you get your car changed back to 3 rail and the other minor fixes, its still cheaper than if you bought one elsewhere, which im sure is why you decided to keep it. It stinks getting burned, we all have, but when you pay below value on something that has to be in the back of your mind when you click bid now. Ive been burned just as much at train shows as on ebay because guess what the people who cheat you at mcdonalds, grocery store or anywhere else have computers too.

IF I hadn't paid attention at the last train show I would've gotten mad....turned out good though. The guy was telling me his box of boxcars were new and complete- $15 each{non scale O}...the one odd box "I" picked out had no trucks on the boxcar...the look on the guys face when I asked "what happend to this one?"...it followed me home for $5...still kind of funny though. 

If I buy used here, there, or anywhere, I want to feel like I am getting a good deal. If not, I prefer to buy new.  This is especially true of locos, I am not going to pay near retail for used items due to the risk involved.

 

I have had bad and good deals on all the different online places to buy, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.  Life goes on.

 

So, always expect more than one picture, a good description, reasonable shipping, and good feedback.  Of course I always read the negatives too, you never know, some people complain about anything.

Brian, Thanks for sharing your experience with us.It does help to be reminded sometimes that we must always do our best to avoid issues. I think sometimes everything goes so well in buying that we can get to relaxed and miss the more obvious issues. I saw an item on the bay that I was intrested in bidding on so I read the discription several timesand noted that one very basic item had not been stated....WAS IT 2R or 3R....so I wrote and asked and the buyer answered me but I never saw it posted on the site of the item. So I did not bid and will not bid on items from this individual.

I also bought and item on the bay and it had an issue. I wanted the item and I was able to get it fixed and I wroye to the well know outfit selling the item and included a copy of my bill. To their credit they sent me a check to cover the repair. Since then I have bought many items from them with confidance.

 

Brian, I also feel that the OGR BUY/SELL fourms are the best places for me to try first.

I have never bought an item on the OGR and had an issue. However even here I look to see if the seller is a contributer to the forum or only a seller. If they are only a seller I don't buy. They may be good guy's but thats my rule.

 

Again Brian thank you for putting this topic up for review. I think it helps us all to review this subject.

I am. LOL!

 

Seriously, if a clear picture is not provided I will not bid on an item. Period. Because #1) if the seller does not provide a clear picture of the item then it is my opinion that this person has no interest in taking the time to provide a good, clear, concise, description of the item which is something that is definitely needed when buying over the internet. #2) The other reason someone might provide only one or two blurry pictures is they are trying to hide something. I'm not saying this is always the case but I am sure it happens once in a while. Point is walk away from anything with a blurry picture.

Couple of comments:

 

First, Rich's post a few pages ago was well posed.  Even though I am not wild about "moderation" he presented a case for doing so with regard to eBay discussions.  Dropping an entire thread without explanation was not covered in his explanation.

 

The comments above about fuzzy photos: Trainz is doing that.  They of course have the ability to stop doing it, but choose not to.  Because folks are not bidding, some spectacular deals have happened in recent weeks.  Items in 2- rail scale that historically hold values in the $800-$1200 range are selling for half price.

 

I am told that in those boxcar lots there are often brass imports worth over a hundred each, and the buyer gets four for eighty bucks.  Not bad.

 

My only problem with eBay is the twinge of guilt I feel when my 99 cent piece of junk brings over a hundred bucks, no reserve.  The twinge does not last long.  I have never been burned on a purchase.  We make one or two purchases a month, including household stuff.

He said there was only one photo.

CincinnatiWestern....

 

If in fact this is the correct auction you have referenced, then the pictures tell the story.  The car obviously was represented as two rail as seen by the Kadee couplers and scale wheel sets....even the ends have been painted.  Interesting....

 

Rob...I believe Brian said that there was one picture of the side of the car...which doesn't necessarily mean there was only one picture of the car....just a thought.

 

Alan

TWO WORDS:

 

caveat emptor  (buyer beware)

 

ASK questions about details of product, including packaging, BEFORE committing to purchase!