The REAL reason why I despise Fantasy Schemes...

Well, I'm guilty in my own way.

I've repainted the Southern Crescent in flat black as a Union Pacific - uhh - Pacific.

The N&W J I have on order will be repainted in Union Pacific Gray and Black (similar to the Challenger), too.

Fantasy schemes are fun, and they sell locos, which keeps companies like MTH in business so they can sell accurate models of prototypical locos for those who love them. 

Are you saying there never was a Mickey Mouse Express?

Ok, I get what you're saying, but look at the money that Christmas Trains and cars have generated.... and I really like my Spirit of 76 set.

Most guests to my layout are thrilled by my M&M's train and accessories.  Who wouldn't like a handcar powered by a red and yellow M&M?

At our club, the kids look forward to visiting to see Thomas running around the layout.

Just saying,

Ed

If fantasy schemes generate cash flow and profits for the train companies, I am all for them.

I look at fantasy paint schemes as more of a way the manufacturers have figured out how to gouge money from people rather than a way to generate $$$ to keep them in business.

I mean, just look at this photo:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MTH-TO...AR-MIB-/130706901455

Two things wrong.  1) Seaboard never owned a full-length vista dome car and 2) Seaboard never painted their passenger cars in the beautiful Citrus color paint scheme.  IMO, it just cheapens the Seaboard Air Line name.  Once I see a piece like this I start suspecting ALL pieces painted in SAL colors.

Folks will say that the manufacturers won't make onesies and twosies of items that were not popular or that only one railroad owned, but all you have to do is look at some of the things they've offered and you know that's not so (how many RRs owned the Jawn Henry, yet I know of one company that's making the model).

What's even worse is when a manufacturer makes an item that RRs did own, and they fail to provide a model in all the roadnames.  Example...the Lionel Centipede.  Seaboard owned them yet Lionel didn't even offer to stamp the SAL name on the side of their $2000 model, instead they went with a railroad that never owned one.

If the fantasy stuff didn't sell and profitable they wouldn't make them.... 

The Nascar stuff in the last Lionel catalog was pretty nasty.  If they sell more power to them, if they don't I've got a idea why.

Jim

I'll tell you what:  If Lionel ever makes a Batman or Spider Man series, my grandkids will be all over their dad to get them!

Counter points.

Our hobby is 3-rail toy trains, and why do you limit your gripe to MTH?

Toy trains means there is whimsy in them. Most toy train companies have been decorating Pennsy, New York Central and Santa Fe steam locomotives with non-prototypical road names they feel will sell product. However more often than not, the prototypical road names appear on the locomotives.

I have about 30 MTH Rail King locomotives and all but one has the correct prototypical road name and paint scheme. The exception is a CNJ Berk that has a whimsical bright red paint finish. I had to have a Berkshire locomotive, and I found the CNJ Berk on the OGR "For Sale or Trade Forum" for a bargain price. I figure with a $4 rattle can of flat black paint and $8 for Erie decals, I can redecorate the red Berk to one of the many Erie S-Class Berks.

Some folks like Merry Christmas trains, yet others like Coke Cola trains. To each his own, and the toy train makers will continue to make what sells. I for one see whimsical locomotive decorations as an opportunity to a bargain I can refinish into a road name that's not available.

 I getting off the podium to run my red CNJ Berk. Bon jour mon ami!

Sorry to hear that some folks here have been so shabbily treated in their quest for what they want.  Obviously their needs should have priority over the desires of the far greater number of consumers who purchase and enjoy so-called "fantasy" schemes.  

It's kind of scary when some in the  the toy train hobby become that serious about their toys. Yes they are toys every way you look at it. From Lionel Lines to a PC steam loco it's a fantasy world.

I vote with this thread's author.  If you are a prototype modeler, you don't want to

have to guess...if some beer car reefer made is for some microbrewery, that has been in business five years, and that never came close to trucking their beer around the corner much less loading cases of it for across the state, existed.  And there are a lot of those you have to filter through to discern what is real and what is fiction.  They foul the nest!  People buy them, but WHY??  There are so many legitimate prototypes in American railroad history begging to be made...that have long been ignored.

MUEagle;

While  I see your point, posting here is not the way to get MTH or any other maker, to build what you want.

If they make an engine that just needs a different paint job to be prototypical, Send them a letter stating so with pictures. This is much more likely to get the engine released in your railroad livery than posting here.

It is also entirely possible the Railroad (or company now owning the rights) will not let them copy the paint job. Sad but true.

<Want an example? Lockheed Martin will not allow RC model planes made of the P-38 lightning without paying a massive copyright fee. Thus no-one currently makes that plane. Plastic kits, sure, those sell by the thousands, you can divide the fee among them, RC planes and toy trains, not so many of those to divide a big fee among>

Who does not love a pink locomotive?  Who?  Who?

Yeah, and they'll make maybe 50 Jawn Henrys. The sad fact is most 3-railers don't know or care what is prototypically correct. they buy what they like. And there's nothing wrong with that.

That is exactly what many modelers have been doing for decades in many different scales when they want strict prototypical accuracy. It is one of the more enjoyable aspects of model railroading IMO. It is unrealistic to expect total accuracy in all models in all road names from any company.

Jim

The sad fact is most 3-railers don't know or care what is prototypically correct.

I would hope that most model railroaders DO care, or they wouldn't be spending their hard earned dollars otherwise.

I'm fine with manufacturers making fantasy stuff if that's what some want, as long as they give they rest of us equal time instead of bogus rationale why they won't make a prototypical piece.

While the majority of my models are presently MTH, half of my models are Atlas, Weaver, 3rd Rail, or modified MTH to keep in line with what I want.

The market is saturated with the same old stuff, it's time they branched out and made some more appealing items and more prototypical models is an area they could do well in.

Although I like prototype paint schemes I can see why there is so many fantasy schemes, number 1 reason----they sell. Number 2 reason----they sell. Run what you like and build what the mfgs. Don't make. It's a hobby enjoy it.

If the manufacturers could indeed "do well" by making "more appealing" items (to whom?) and more prototypical models I'm pretty sure they would be doing just that, but the volume probably isn't there.  However, I feel there may be enough of a market for undecorated items for them to be worthwhile.

Pete

Hear, Hear, I agree, and make loco shells available too!!!!  I buy beautifully painted engines and yet would like to run them in my own livery.  I don't have the heart to repaint a shell, that I bought because I liked the paint scheme in the first place.  It would be nice to just "swap" out the shells depending on what road I want to run.  Used to do that in HO all the time!

Did ya order the Lionel GN or NP fantasy SD-70's. Can't get anymore fantasy than those 2 guys but they look pretty sharp.

The sad fact is most 3-railers don't know or care what is prototypically correct.

I would agree with this statement.  Otherwise we would not have the hoards of fantasy locomotives that MTH AND Lionel have made.  lf folks want to buy a fantasy locomotive that's cool, but I would offer that if the manufacturers want to create fantasty locomotives at least label them in the catalog as fantasy engines so that at least other consumers know what that are buying (LOL, however, I remember being in a LHS when the Lionel Phantom set first came out and one 'knowledgable' person reading the whimsical desription that Lionel created for the engine and believing it! )

And the comments that they are just TOYS, just doesn't cut it.  I fully understand the cost of tooling, but at least get some of the stuff right, like domes and light position (K-Line at least did this with many of their engines that they offered in multiple paint schemes - like the Mikado).

The upside is that at least now we have the internet.  Pictures of many steam locomotives can be found on line, and with at least a little bit of research, a consumer who cares can find out if an engine existed or if the model reasonable looks like the real thing.  Athough my knowledge of steam is somewhat limited, thanks to the internet and RR books, any times I have passed on a Lionel or MTH locomotive to purchase a "more correct" engine from someone else. 

Jim 

Maybe, just maybe, there are people who might want to create a large string of beer reefer cars, whether the car actually existed for the purpose of transporting a specific type of beer or not. 

These folks would much rather have a wide variety of these cars than 5 of one type of beer (which would all pretty much look similar) that has different numbers on them, or a slightly different style for the same product.

They really are just toys.Enjoy .

You mean these are not "correct" paint schemes I think I got ripped off!!

But, there is a difference between at least emulating a prototype paint scheme and this:

which has no basis in reality.

Rusty

Ohhh man I have to return this!!  The clown's head is too big

Wow, you mean there never was a "Lionel Lines" or "American Flyer Lines"  I'm devastated by the trickerey foisted on me by those dastardly toy train manufacturers.

I love fantasy schemes, It allows us custom painters to pick up a freight car or locomotive at bargain prices - because Nobody wants them

Interesting that the original poster is complaining about the Railking line which is expected and does have plenty of fantasy[island] paint schemes!

IMHO his argument would have a little more merit if the line was Premier but MTH has stated whatever will sell they will make.

Even Atlas O is now exploring fantasy paint schemes with the sad demise of Jim Weaver.

hello guys and gals.........

Fantasy?, sure why not !!!! I wouldn't mind having the blue and yellow Santa Fe semi-scale GG1.  I am just waiting for a Williams or K-line semi-scale GG1 to come along for the right price and then have it custom painted.

the woman who loves the S.F.#5021

Tiffany

I am not familiar with the word "dispise" in the heading. Unless it is a fantasy spelling for despise.

Ah, Linganore Lines?

hello guys and gals........

remember this folks, Lionel did and has made alot of "Fantasy schemes" painted trains for many years and people still buy them to this day. In my opinion, nothing wrong with that !!!

the woman who loves the S.F.#5021

Tiffany

Even Atlas O is now exploring fantasy paint schemes with the sad demise of Jim Weaver.

Say it ain't so Joe

It's not so much that I even hate fantasy scheme's, I know people buy them, but there are lots of things out there that are so basic that aren't made.

I'm not a scale modeler, but I want my layout to have some level of realism to it. After several years of repeatedly asking MTH to make rail king boxcars in Nickel Plate, Lackawanna, and Wabash (they made a Wabash, as part of a set, and it was blue), I finally decided to make my own. My custom boxcar collection is now up to 20 I think. They are all shades of boxcar red, with correct graphics on it. It's opened up a whole different avenue of the hobby. But my point is, there are people who'd buy prototypical paint schemed ready to run freight cars even in semi scale if they were offered. 

To the point.  Toy trains is a fantasy hobby; doesn't matter what scale either. That's the way it has largely been for the last 112+ years. That's the way it will continue to be. That includes 100% of the model/toy layouts that they run on. 

The business side of the hobby is of course a completely different matter. Most don't find that particular side of the hobby terribly interesting or thread worthy.

I understand what the author of this thread is saying and agree in part because I'm not particularly fond of fantasy schemes and there are prototypical items that I too would like to one day see made.  But on the other hand, when Lionel brought out this little camelback in one of my favorite roads, I didn't let the fact that the B&O never had this particular locomotive stop me from purchasing it.  I bought it years ago and although it is not prototypical for the B&O it remains one of my favorites.

It's interesting that as a young kid I once saw a picture of a camelback locomotive in a book about model railroading at the library and it was love at first sight.  Although admittedly it does not get a whole lot of run time, this little loco can almost always be found somewhere on the layout. 

So, in the final analysis I must conclude that there is a place at the toy train table for both prototypical and fantasy equipmentl.  That's my two cents.  Bo 

Visit my website Bo's Trains at http://www.bostrains.com

This point of view would have some merit if it was in the 2RS forum.   Having that third rail in the middle of the track really makes the viewpoint moot.

--Greg

And that is the bottom line.  Maybe 50,000 old f**ts who want prototypically correct vs 50 Million kids, etal, who might be interested in the fantasy stuff.

IMHO, putting this thread in this forum is silly.

Put it over in the scale forums and I will agree with you (being one of the 50,000).

I like what I like, and I don't care one bit about how what you may like differs from what I like.  And I can't think of a thing in this hobby that I despise, aside from missed delivery dates!