The realities of our hobby

It is definitely a different, and like most things in life, not an entirely sad state of affairs (current politics aside). Times change, and not always for the better. The trick is to change with it effecting  the most positive results. The so-called "good old days" are usually perceived through the distorted lens of nostalgia, where things are selectively chosen for the more positive memories. The informed person attempts to make the best of the current reality, and enjoy that in spite of the challenges presented. If you are not happy with this hobby, make a "course correction" until you are. At 76, I have personally made those changes, and am enjoying it as much as ever!

Yes, part of that "trouble" may be the group that is called Generation Z, which includes these two relatives of mine, brothers, one who has just turned 15 and the other 13, who love visiting my train layout.

They even made a special pilgrimage with their parents into NYC to see the layout their Uncle Frank re-did at FAO Schwarz.

However, only the younger boy has come to, as he puts it,love his trains.

For this Christmas, my wife and I gave them each 3-D Printer devices, which they loved so much they instantly rushed to and retreated to their kiosks (one has an actual office-like set-up in the basement, near where his layout is stored, temporarily,) and they spent a good two hours straight at learning how to use their new printers. The youngest created rims for sun-glasses (!)

Each boy has his own I-phone and his own laptop.

On previous holidays and birthdays, we have given them a variety of remotely operated helicopters and drones.

For a while, the older boy was fascinated with a remotely controlled Tyrannosaurus Rex, which interacted with him, according to his voice and attitude, advancing, retreating, or growling (!!!!!!!!!!!) near him.

How can model trains compete with all that, plus with whatever new wonders are down the road leading to the future? I have no idea.

FrankM, the uncle

Yep, I keep watching but I have never seen the engineer use one of those opening / closing doors. They are neat because you can stick you little finger inside the locomotive. Without a doubt a complete waste of resources.

Have they ever played Risk on a rainy day?  To completion, like one guy completely rules the world by getting all of every other guy’s guys.  If not, they have lived an abnormal childhood, sorry. Cheers,       W1

"6 opening doors on my F7 set?  I don't need even ONE!!!   But I have six opening doors?? six springs?  Labor to mount 6 sets of doors??  

All I WANT is decent running, good looking and trouble free equipment."

Yes, so long as it has basic command control (and command control is NOT new and NOT unreliable and NOT unstable; many users of it, on the other hand...).

Plus - why is it that none of those 6 blasted doors will stay open?

(As an aside - real locomotives have on-board rest rooms; why is this never included in that silly "cab chatter"? What? Not one flush or "gotta go" in the script? Never mind the steam locos; in that era, such things were taken care of at the more-frequent water stops or, ah, "on the fly".) 

Mike Wyatt posted:

Unfortunately, the hobby is in trouble.

1.- demographics against it - fewer people BUILD anything, such as a layout.  Younger people need to be introduced to the train hobby- and WE "serious hobbyists" sometimes don't do a very good job of that.  

 2a. Lionel remains our best possibility at turning these trends. 

2b: BUT they have to produce product that appeals to kids (Thomas, Mickey Mouse, etc,) to try and build a new demographic, AND yet still try to stay in the game with us "serious hobbyists".    

3. A mass market return for model trains would be good for everybody!  I wish them the best!!

1: I agree; you see that same dynamic on this site as well; it appears that now a days most want "plug and play". Actually building something seems to be a thing of the past.

2a: Not sure if that's true. Sure they have the most brand-name recognition, but if the many recent posts found here are any indication, Lionel needs to focus on their own "in house" QC issues before they can realistically concentrate on expanding (or just maintaining) their base. Second-rate quality becomes apparent very quickly.

2b: I'm not all that sure that the fantasy releases are necessarily geared towards "kids"; seems a lot of those items are purchased by folks who populate forums such as this. I'm often puzzled by those who will demand prototypical accuracy, but will also buy something like the "Batman" train...but hey, that's just me. 

3. Couldn't agree more.

Mark in Oregon

rockstars1989 posted:

I hear what you are saying Mike. And I could not agree more. However your a little behind in the times. A pair of designer jeans costs $169.00. Had to bust your chops a little my friend.Enjoy! Nick                           

But walmart wranglers are 14.99.   asian make overalls 49.00 verses USA made (that I buy) around 84.00 ... Chinese hat 4.00 .. USA hat 20.00   ...   Take off everything you have on not made in the USA.   Odds are all of us would be naked!  But me.  In my USA made overalls!

Jim

"2a: Not sure if that's true. Sure they have the most brand-name recognition, but if the many recent posts found here are any indication, Lionel needs to focus on their own "in house" QC issues before they can realistically concentrate on expanding (or just maintaining) their base. Second-rate quality becomes apparent very quickly."

COULD the "QC issues" be lessened if the gadgets were less??  The Vision Line Niagara has (how?) many smoke generators to run the many "steam" features??  Every one of those, some day, will fail and need a new resister, at least.  OR be over-filled and cause problems.  And there are many such "features" on the top-line engines.  

The MORE you put on, the MORE chances for a "failed when new" issue.  Moreover, every X number of them will fail when brand new.  These result in a 30-minute phone call, w/ bad Muzak, a packing job to ship to Service (even if they pay the tab), and a 3-4 week wait for the return.  

I question how much of this "sophistication" is really necessary? 

BUT the Lion Chief Plus line gives you many features, remote handheld control, good looks and (to me) seem to be more reliable.  That reliability (unless it is just MY experience) almost HAS to be because the LC line has fewer gadgets.

CARSNTRAINS,

Would those USA made overalls happen to be Round House?  (Made in Shawnee OK)

If the hobby is in trouble, why do we have more choices of everything than I could have imagined in 1960.  Personally, I wasn't looking at model trains from the perspective of a buyer until 6 years ago.  It just wasn't on my radar before that but I had loved Lionel in the 1950s even if I wasn't buying or collecting back then either.  Here's another thing.  How many manufacturers are still making and selling GG1s?   That alone shocks me.  I would have thought that the market would have been saturated ages ago. (living in the midwest, I never saw a GG1 or anything like it except in Lionel catalogs.)  The places where people had seen the GG1 operate are finite and limited and yet they are still in demand and still sell like hotcakes, apparently.   I will be 70 next year.  My time may not be short but who knows?  Do I have time to worry about where the hobby is headed?  I have to say no.  We vote with our wallets. That's how it works, as far as I know.  I e-mailed Mike's and asked them to produce 6 car sets of CB&Q 4-bay coal hoppers like they have for other railroads but got the expected ambiguous response.  There's pretty much my biggest complaint.  I should have shut up, though, and built a set of cars myself.  Instead I eventually found and bought 25 K-line 4-bay hoppers from various sources, some of them from our forum sponsors and from 1 member.   Problem solved.

I did get a bunch of Lionel and Mike's engines and love them.  They're magnificent.  They run beautifully and are beautiful to look at.  Did get turned off by the prices so started buying some Williiams engines.  Their GP30 is an outstanding model.  It's got fabulous details in the body and decoration plus they sound and run great. When you operate these with a Power Master or a TPC, it's as good as DCS or TMCC, imo.    I recently picked up a used set of their E7s and if you've never seen those you are missing out.  They are gorgeous.  I am powering the dummy unit right now and almost have it nailed.  

Hobby in trouble?  Life is too short to keep beating that poor dead horse.  Just enjoy your trains.

Mike Wyatt posted:

"........................

COULD the "QC issues" be lessened if the gadgets were less??  The Vision Line Niagara has (how?) many smoke generators to run the many "steam" features??  Every one of those, some day, will fail and need a new resister, at least.  OR be over-filled and cause problems.  And there are many such "features" on the top-line engines.  

The MORE you put on, the MORE chances for a "failed when new" issue.  Moreover, every X number of them will fail when brand new.  These result in a 30-minute phone call, w/ bad Muzak, a packing job to ship to Service (even if they pay the tab), and a 3-4 week wait for the return.  

I question how much of this "sophistication" is really necessary? 

................

Some of the more prevalent (IMO) QC issues in recent days seem to be across the board and of the decorative/finish nature.

It seems it's now nearly impossible for them to produce a train without adding nicks, scratches, or paint splatters at the manufacturing level.  Sometimes they attempt to touch up the paint (sometimes they don't), and many times if it is done, it is done poorly (if your eye is specifically drawn to the touch-up, it wasn't done very well).  This particular flavor of QC has nothing to do with complexity of the electronics or mechanisms, of course.

I know those problems exist too, but it's not all just the whiz bang stuff failing.  My most recent examples were 2 of the Pennsy Broadway Limited add-on cars and also a Disney Chip and Dale operating chase gondola. 

The Disney one actually surprises me a bit more, I have thought I detected a slightly better level of defects (meaning fewer or none) on some of the Disney products (in the past).  I'm not sure (guessing here), but I had a suspicion that anything branded Disney might have been looked at more closely as part of the licensing agreement.  For this particular car, I checked both of them my dealer had in stock, and both had significantly notable paint touch up.  On a positive note, the Mickey Aquarium Car meant to go with the starter set did seem to be pretty good, nothing serious caught my eye on that one.

-Dave

Lets not turn this into another complaining QC thread guys....stick to the OPs discussion topic.  Now...just so you know....I personally don't think the hobby is dying.  What is dying is the baby boomer people in the hobby!  At OGR and in particular here on the forum, we are seeing a lot of new people joining who are taking the place of those that have passed to the station in the sky so to speak.  Five years ago, our average number of new members joining this forum was around 100 or a little more per month.  Steadily that has been rising and during just this past month...in December... 387 new members signed on to the OGR forum!  Our averages over the past year or so have been around 2-300 per month.  So....the hobby still is very viable and is evolving.  I believe that there are still many people that enjoy trains and the hobby in general through a variety of ways from the simple conventional operator to the guy or gal that has a multitude of operating systems.  If you want to instill the hobby into future generations, YOU have to take some of the responsibility by making a model train a gift to a friend or relative.  Those of you that don't know what to do with your paper magazines and talk about trashing or recycling them....consider donating them to your local libraries, doctor's waiting rooms, and just plain giving them away during train meets to the younger crowd.  You never know when that give away will spark the interest of a future hobbyist!

OGR CEO-PUBLISHER posted:

Lets not turn this into another complaining QC thread guys....stick to the OPs discussion topic.  Now...just so you know....I personally don't think the hobby is dying.  What is dying is the baby boomer people in the hobby!  At OGR and in particular here on the forum, we are seeing a lot of new people joining who are taking the place of those that have passed to the station in the sky so to speak.  Five years ago, our average number of new members joining this forum was around 100 or a little more per month.  Steadily that has been rising and during just this past month...in December... 387 new members signed on to the OGR forum!  Our averages over the past year or so have been around 2-300 per month.  So....the hobby still is very viable and is evolving.  I believe that there are still many people that enjoy trains and the hobby in general through a variety of ways from the simple conventional operator to the guy or gal that has a multitude of operating systems.  If you want to instill the hobby into future generations, YOU have to take some of the responsibility by making a model train a gift to a friend or relative.  Those of you that don't know what to do with your paper magazines and talk about trashing or recycling them....consider donating them to your local libraries, doctor's waiting rooms, and just plain giving them away during train meets to the younger crowd.  You never know when that give away will spark the interest of a future hobbyist!

Agreed! Getting young people into the hobby is a growing issue, but I think we're doing a good job. For example, I'm 14; I've always loved trains and have fallen in and out of the O-Gauge hobby a few times. I most recently fell back into it in summer 2017, and looks like I'm here to stay now! I've been a member since July, and this is a great place to talk about trains, model or prototype. It's a lot better than social media, because here everyone has a common interest!

Hello all ..Alan Arnold ..those are impressive numbers of newbies joining the fold ....   one just has to attend  one of the huge model railroad meets ...Trainfest in Milwaukee .. World's greatest hobby shows etc .....there is a lot of interest in model / toy trains ....perhaps not the exact same interest in the hobby you have ...but young folks are heading to the hobby ..... mostly HO .... ... but once the hook is in one can move up and down the food chain of gauges.   As Alan mentions best way to promote the hobby is by being an good steward of the hobby  ... set up or join a group with one of the layouts at the huge shows ..get a display at the local library showcase for a month or two .. it's all about exposure .....   folks buy , collect what they know ...or their friends have ...if you wish to win more to your side of the track ...you better build a better RR . Show why it's fun .. ..    post it on various  facebook sites , youtube , here on the forum ...it has never been easier to self promote your slice of the hobby . 

I collect very early electric pieces and vintage o scale ... two obscure   fields rarely seen by the general public, so I'm happy to post videos and photos to expose that end of the hobby.   At Trainfest I drag out  stuff that is unknown by 99% of the public just to plant seeds . and get that proverbially "I had no idea they made anything like that"...  .. half the fun of owning is sharing ... sharing is promoting the hobby in it's many diverse branches ( gauges/scales) . 

Cheers Carey 

I agree with Alan and I’ll add Everything goes in cycles.  This is not the late 60’s or 70’s.  We are no where as bad off.  Chill and run some trains.

The original poster mentioned that Lionel remains our best possibility to getting new blood into the hobby.  Others have mentioned the present mentality of plug-n-play.  I do believe that Lionel is on the right track with Lionchief and Lionchief Plus.  Especially now that Bluetooth is part of the system.  

LC and LC+ are pretty much as simple as it can get and still have the bells and whistles along with a decent price.  You might compare it to post-war Lionel.  Put 'em on the track and turn up the throttle !   in both cases there is not much learning involved.  

Still others have pointed out that trains are a thing of the past.  I think the allure of railroading may be lost because it doesn't touch our lives nearly as closely as it once did.  Today's railroading consists of monotonous strings of the same type freight cars and pretty much the same thing for commuter trains, which are the closest thing to a passenger train as most people will ever get.  

I am 43 and recently got back in the hobby for the first time in 28 years. I have all the name brands on my layout and I see both the positives and negatives with each one. I think this is a great time in the hobby. My small children love the two LC scale SD60Ms that I have and I run my new legacy engines with Bluetooth and the universal remote. This forum has helped me with so many things on my layout, engines and modeling in general. Again, I think this is great time in the hobby.

There will always be railroads and people interested in them. Many people ride long-distance and commuter trains every day, and that number is likely to increase as rail service improves and roads become more crowded. A new generation will assume responsibility for building and running the railroads. Some youngsters will become (design) engineers and work for locomotive and car manufacturers. Others will stand beside the tracks and watch the trains pass by. From among these people, some will develop an interest in model railroading and the hobby will continue.

MELGAR

I've been into model railroading since I was 15 yrs old (1965), been into o ga (Lionel) since the mid 80's. Since the mid 80's one of the main topics I kept hearing, the younger generation isn't interested in the hobby, we have to get them involved, or the hobbies doomed.

 It was nice to show the younger generation my layouts and all the trains I have, hoping they'll get interested in the hobby. A turning point for me came about 25 yrs ago when a young boy, friend of my kids was over looking at my layout. I asked him if he has trains? He said he did, but when his father left, he took their trains. This hit me, a few days later I got together a K Line set and brought them to his home giving them to his mother for him. Since then I've given sets away or sold sets to parents at a fraction of what I actually paid for them, nothing expensive, mostly starter sets. The way I see it, this is my way to get some young people into the hobby.

TrainMan1225 posted:

OGR CEO-PUBLISHER posted:

Lets not turn this into another complaining QC thread guys....stick to the OPs discussion topic.  Now...just so you know....I personally don't think the hobby is dying.  What is dying is the baby boomer people in the hobby!  At OGR and in particular here on the forum, we are seeing a lot of new people joining who are taking the place of those that have passed to the station in the sky so to speak.  Five years ago, our average number of new members joining this forum was around 100 or a little more per month.  Steadily that has been rising and during just this past month...in December... 387 new members signed on to the OGR forum!  Our averages over the past year or so have been around 2-300 per month.  So....the hobby still is very viable and is evolving.  I believe that there are still many people that enjoy trains and the hobby in general through a variety of ways from the simple conventional operator to the guy or gal that has a multitude of operating systems.  If you want to instill the hobby into future generations, YOU have to take some of the responsibility by making a model train a gift to a friend or relative.  Those of you that don't know what to do with your paper magazines and talk about trashing or recycling them....consider donating them to your local libraries, doctor's waiting rooms, and just plain giving them away during train meets to the younger crowd.  You never know when that give away will spark the interest of a future hobbyist!

Agreed! Getting young people into the hobby is a growing issue, but I think we're doing a good job. For example, I'm 14; I've always loved trains and have fallen in and out of the O-Gauge hobby a few times. I most recently fell back into it in summer 2017, and looks like I'm here to stay now! I've been a member since July, and this is a great place to talk about trains, model or prototype. It's a lot better than social media, because here everyone has a common interest!

Trainman1225, I think you are awesome! So glad you are enjoying the hobby and the Forum. Arnold

Last night, I got together with 5 other train guy friends. We met many years ago through our connection to a LHS.

My frustration with them over the years is that only 1 of them besides me has a layout, so when we meet, we usually only talk about trains and other things, instead of running trains.

On the other hand, 4 of these train guys are brilliant at repairing trains, and either work for the LHS making repairs, or have done so in the past. 

The reason I bring this up is that last night, I raved  about this OGR Forum to these guys. Two of the guys were impressed, but the 4 train repairmen were only lukewarm about it at best. I think that is because they think they have as much, if not more, technical knowledge about trains as anyone on the Forum. Truth is, they know a lot, but they can still benefit tremendously from the enormous Worlwide brain trust that this Forum represents. Another reason they were lukewarm may be that they are up in years and do not use the computer or smartphone much. A couple of them don't have a smartphone.

Anyway, I believe another great way to promote our hobby is to tell all your train friends about our Forum, including showing it to them on a computer or smartphone, and explaining how it has enriched your life. This will be especially effective in promoting the hobby to the young who love the computer and smartphone.

It just occurred to me how smart Alan Arnold and the rest of the OGR leadership is in providing this Forum to OGR members for free. The wave of the future is the computer, the Internet, on line forums, and running trains using Apps, which are all very appealing to the young.  This Forum is a great way to promote OGR and our hobby long term. Arnold

If the sky is always falling why hasn't it conked us on the head yet?

There are still people buying trains, if not the manufacturers wouldn't be in business. 

Trussman posted:

I've been into model railroading since I was 15 yrs old (1965), been into o ga (Lionel) since the mid 80's. Since the mid 80's one of the main topics I kept hearing, the younger generation isn't interested in the hobby, we have to get them involved, or the hobbies doomed.

 It was nice to show the younger generation my layouts and all the trains I have, hoping they'll get interested in the hobby. A turning point for me came about 25 yrs ago when a young boy, friend of my kids was over looking at my layout. I asked him if he has trains? He said he did, but when his father left, he took their trains. This hit me, a few days later I got together a K Line set and brought them to his home giving them to his mother for him. Since then I've given sets away or sold sets to parents at a fraction of what I actually paid for them, nothing expensive, mostly starter sets. The way I see it, this is my way to get some young people into the hobby.

 

 

God bless you sir.

One angle manufacturers ..is sell engines standard.. No thrills.

Sell the electronics as accessories.. And start selling you put together engines and cars.

Where they could sell on the low side..lets say 50 dollar range.

Also schools could use trains as learning examples. You have physics . which includes all math.

They have robotics.. 

Most of us had shop classes Starting in 7th grade.. That's all been thrown out.

On this site..you have people who want ready to run.

And you have the tinkering ones. Who like to build.

So the manufacturers need to rethink their sales.

With the qc problems. Hobby shops could also be hired to assemble engines and cars. For people who want ready to run. Any problems ..could be addressed there.  

New commuter trains and mass transit trolley sets are actually "state of the art" transportation. 

The new General Electric Evolution Series locomotives are "state of the art".

The deal is that freight trains and commuter trains are not evenly distributed around the United States. 

Some people see real freight and passenger trains all the time, others can go weeks without happening to catch sight of a real train. 

There is a problem that new housing is now made to apartment like standards with little room to move around, much less add anything more than a shelf layout. 

Andrew

There is a problem with the real life "Precision Railroading". It is making it harder to come across the real freight trains. It is bulk loading of trains at industries or no trains now.

Most real freight cars are now in lease fleets and have very minimal graphics. Most Covered Hoppers are gray. Gondolas are black. 

Andrew

There are models of the F7 that have very minimal details. They were made by Williams Trains. 

I like the details. The doors usually open and close without springs on the SD40-2 and GP9 diesel model that.

Who is putting springs in your F7 doors? 

Andrew

If today's kids aren't interested in toy trains, so be it. An even bigger hobby of yesteryear was stamp collecting. Are there any stamp collecting forums wringing their hands over saving the hobby?

The answer is "yes". "Will stamp collecting survive?" is now on page 12. You could almost swap "stamps" for "trains".

Our little hobby of toy trains is not in trouble - it just need exposure, like Alan said. There also needs to be a certain level of interaction between the train/operator/action. A couple of cases in point:

This past year, my son's school did an architectural museum, where the kids replicated major NYC buildings; Times Square, Freedom Tower, BoA building, Empire State, etc.. the goal was to make a small 'Gullivers Gate' type display. I volunteered my Lionel NJ Transit set, a the train went from 'Bernardsville' to NYC. I also brought my Conrail crane, Legacy set-up, and another loco and cars. I challenged the kids to pick up items with the crane  - which was a hit as was running the NJ Transit Set. As a result of this, several parents asked where could they get trains, as several kids asked for something like them. Last I heard, 4 received sets for Christmas this year.  

My son (who is 10) loves to show the trains off to his friends when they come over. One evening, he and his friend spend over an hour running an SW around, switching out cars, placing Legos people all over the layout, loading/unloading Legos... I didn't mind - they were having fun and they weren't going to break anything that couldn't be fixed. 

My suggestion to the MTH and Lionel - create sets that have some interactivity. Bluetooth is great, you can run trains via an app, that's a start. Now develop a small accessory that can be controlled via app - a gateman, some type of dumping or loading accessory. Create an ability for kids to 'block code' the actions - gives them the ability to customize actions. My son got this Lego thing that he builds, and can code the resulting actions, movement etc. on his Chromebook. 

My overall observation is the price point as which some of these are sold. $200-$300 for a set can discourage a buyer. But then again, my son's Christmas gifts were in the $50-$150 range this year. And were purchased either at Target, Amazon or the Lego store (and that's a whole 'other story in itself).

riki 

Also schools could use trains as learning examples. You have physics . which includes all math.

They have robotics.. 

Most of us had shop classes Starting in 7th grade.. That's all been thrown out.

I have a very funny true story to tell about my experience with shop class.

I took a wood shop class in 7th grade and did OK. However, 8th grade metal shop class was a disaster for me. I got a D on my report card in Metal Shop Class, but otherwise straight A-s on my report card. My father did not get mad at me, he got mad at my Meral Shop Class teacher! LOL.  The next day, he came to school with me, and confronted the teacher, calling him a Horses A . . . for giving me a D and ruining my otherwise stellar grade point average. LOL. The teacher was stunned, never having experienced such a strange reaction from a parent. I think he was a little scared of my passionate, persuasive and hot-blooded Italian father, who had such a commanding presence. LOL, Arnold

PS, isn't it ironic that a D student in Metal Shop Class takes up model railroading as a hobby. Thank God for the help that I get from this Forum and my Train Doctor, which I so desperately need.

The O-gauge hobby is a tough business, but it is also lucrative, as Lionel, MTH and 3rd Rail could acknowledge.

I don't think we can blame the Chinese and the Walmart mentality for the state of the hobby - that's a whole other discussion. I personally wish everything was made in America but its years away from happening, if it can happen.

The problem IMO is American corporate culture. Maximizing profits at the expense of the product. Its a return-on-investment formula that every business states in their plan.

What is needed is another company or an individual with deep-pockets that could buy an existing O-gauge company and be willing to improve the manufacturing process and compete with the existing O-gauge manufacturers the old-fashioned way: by building a better product at a competitive price point while investing money in the manufacturing/QC process. In simple terms, this probably means less money going to the top (investors) and more to the workers and facilities and materials of the products. Competition has been the cornerstone of America since the industrial revolution began. The challenge is that one O-gauge company has an old trusted name and very loyal following and there's not going to be incentive to change unless something rattles their profit-margin.

351_DD-1 posted:

CARSNTRAINS,

Would those USA made overalls happen to be Round House?  (Made in Shawnee OK)

YES!   Round House in OK and LC King/ Pointer here in TN/VA (Bristol TN).   If you get their Emails they have some great deals now and then!  

Jim

first didn't read every comment. To me thou the real problem is to get kids today to do hands on projects, there more for already made and electronics like tablets and cell phones ( I believe is the death of society as it was) There not really into trains and building layouts like we were brought up. 

I hate to say it but I sometimes wonder if model railroading will even still be around as a hobby in 50 - 75 years.  

Paul Kallus posted:

The O-gauge hobby is a tough business, but it is also lucrative, as Lionel, MTH and 3rd Rail could acknowledge.

I don't think we can blame the Chinese and the Walmart mentality for the state of the hobby - that's a whole other discussion. I personally wish everything was made in America but its years away from happening, if it can happen.

The problem IMO is American corporate culture. Maximizing profits at the expense of the product. Its a return-on-investment formula that every business states in their plan.

What is needed is another company or an individual with deep-pockets that could buy an existing O-gauge company and be willing to improve the manufacturing process and compete with the existing O-gauge manufacturers the old-fashioned way: by building a better product at a competitive price point while investing money in the manufacturing/QC process. In simple terms, this probably means less money going to the top (investors) and more to the workers and facilities and materials of the products. Competition has been the cornerstone of America since the industrial revolution began. The challenge is that one O-gauge company has an old trusted name and very loyal following and there's not going to be incentive to change unless something rattles their profit-margin.

EXACTLY!   Now to find somebody or a group with really deep pockets, with a following that will buy their product right away!

Jim

We can learn the positives if we watch with "open eyes" and direct our energy towards sharing. I saw our grandson run up to the MTH display last year at the Big E. He saw the tablet running the MTH app and the display engines. He asked first if he could touch it. We said that it's what the display is for, is people just like him. He enjoyed playing with it and it sank in to my head, that it helps make things comfortable for users like him in a new environment.

 So I went home and after some time I made a copy of the tablet holder on my RR. He asked before touching, he went for that large tablet. He had brought his own old I-phone for the first time with the basic app already added. He wanted to try it out and we did. The basic app did not allow for some of the features he was already used to having so he then moved to the tablet rather quickly. 

 My point in all this is to try and keep the new visitors interested and stay with the times. Going to someone's house and watching them run trains is good. Having an interactive experience for the guests takes things to the next level allowing them to actively participate. It tells me that he will continue to enjoy the trains long after I am gone. It also tells me that the younger kids look for more excitement and like to see what's available and new. I think we get where we stick with what we want and forget about our guests and the hobby overall. That's the main reason I even run steam engines! Now, I need to have steam engines with speakers in the boiler, as he has asked about. I need to keep the RR evolving to keep him interested. I need to watch and see what interests him, and expand on that.

Paul Kallus posted:

What is needed is another company or an individual with deep-pockets that could buy an existing O-gauge company and be willing to improve the manufacturing process and compete with the existing O-gauge manufacturers the old-fashioned way: by building a better product at a competitive price point while investing money in the manufacturing/QC process.

Think "Menards"

I'm sure those are some of the realities of our hobby; fortunately, there are other, brighter realities of our hobby as well. Now get off my lawn.

The realities of the O gauge 3-rail hobby for me is that there's plenty of good-running reliable postwar stuff available on the secondary market.  Also, reality, except for clutter, is not permitted on my toy train layout.

Pete

Texas Pete posted:

The realities of the O gauge 3-rail hobby for me is that there's plenty of good-running reliable postwar stuff available on the secondary market.  Also, reality, except for clutter, is not permitted on my toy train layout.

Pete

Yeah thats the thinking that was going on in my other hobby.  Blow molded Christmas decorations.  "no need to worry about the new stuff"    This year the last big company that made them went under.  Now the pricing on the older stuff and whats around of the newer stuff has skyrocketed.  

Jim