The realities of our hobby

I went to a train show last weekend in Va. Beach.  Never seen so many kids at a show that I can recall.

Us old folks need to stop asking for every thing on the model to operate (like doors, steam coming out of the valves, etc), this will cut down costs.  Spend that money on making them look more to scale and so they'll operate out of the box.  The more things move and operate the more they break down.

Why not make a model in 2 versions...1 has all the stirrups, grabs, etc already applied, the other has them in a bag for the owner to put on if desired.  And make these parts metal castings.  Instead of having multiple lines of product there would only be 2, put those old molds in a store room and lock the door.

There will also be thousands of families and kids at the upcoming Amherst Railway Society Big Railroad Hobby Show at the Big-E in West Springfield, Massachusetts on January 26/27. That's the future of the hobby. They may not become postwar Lionel collectors but they will have plenty of modern (G, O, HO, N scale) items from which to choose.

MELGAR

Texas Pete posted:

The realities of the O gauge 3-rail hobby for me is that there's plenty of good-running reliable postwar stuff available on the secondary market.  

Pete

Other than the fact that my interests run more towards American Flyer S gauge, that's pretty much how I feel as well.

Thanks to the internet, we now have more access to the stuff we might like to have...as well as sites like this. 

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go run some 1940's vintage trains with my 1953 15B transformer. 

Mark in Oregon

I still have the impression that there are not a lot of people trying to get rich by manufacturing, selling, or serving our hobby - and that there are at least a few rich people dumping money into it expecting a subpar ROI.

Some rich people spend hundreds of thousands on giant model railways, fostering manufacturer relationships that benefit the hobby. Neil Young invested in Liontech LLC to help revive Lionel. My LHS proprietor was an accountant, and pretty frank that starting the shop was a labor of love and no way to get rich.

bobdavisnpf posted:

I still have the impression that there are not a lot of people trying to get rich by manufacturing, selling, or serving our hobby - and that there are at least a few rich people dumping money into it expecting a subpar ROI.

Some rich people spend hundreds of thousands on giant model railways, fostering manufacturer relationships that benefit the hobby. Neil Young invested in Liontech LLC to help revive Lionel. My LHS proprietor was an accountant, and pretty frank that starting the shop was a labor of love and no way to get rich.

Yes!  And to sum it up, as I have heard in the past..............

"If you want to make a small fortune owning a hobby shop, you have to start with a large fortune".

From my experience here in the UK the hobby is far from dying. 

We have had a couple of series on national TV featuring model trains last year. Lots of interest.

Mason and I visited a local train show before Christmas and met up with a friend of his from school. His friends dad has recently got out his childhood Hornby OO gauge trains.

The boys are age 10 and had wicked day. His friends dad remarked he had never seen his lad showing so much interest in anything before. He’d expected to be at the show for an hour but they were there all day.

They purchased an new locomotive and some other items.

I’d also like to say that my work boots are   Made in the USA. They have lasted 4x longer than the non US boots I used to wear. 

Nick

i am probably the most diehard train fan ever but i can never afford anything and the club i tried to join never added me and the guy who said i could run stuff at his place NEVER answers my calls nobody else understands my problem people who have offered stuff to me here never followed through now 8 years have past and no o gauge progress yet because something always gets in the way

Two ideas I've read here and on other threads that I really like:

1. Ship me (or let me buy) components. I think there's a geek side (myself included) of the market being missed. Some kids will always like building things from scratch. Same for some adults. That's partly why there was such an outcry when ERR was being shut down. In a similar vein, I'd love to be able to upgrade some TMCC 1.0 engines to LC+ with bluetooth.

2. Get us past electrified track. We can talk about realistic modeling, but until the power is on board in the locomotive, we'll never have truly realistic models. 

Just my $0.02.

paigetrain posted:

i am probably the most diehard train fan ever but i can never afford anything and the club i tried to join never added me and the guy who said i could run stuff at his place NEVER answers my calls nobody else understands my problem people who have offered stuff to me here never followed through now 8 years have past and no o gauge progress yet because something always gets in the way

PAIGETRAIN, Have you tried starting even a modicum of a layout? Starting one can be very rewarding, and other hobbyists might find your progress attractive.

For example, once my wife and I had settled completely into our new home as newlyweds, in the mid-90's, I asked if she wouldn't mind if I began building a layout in the basement. She encouraged me. In a short time, we had (note the use of "we") friends and family visiting to see what-was-what, and the road since then even included my doing layout work for Lionel at FAO Schwarz, in NYC. I had no idea my fiddling with creating a layout would lead me to such enjoyment.

So, I suggest, that if you have not started a layout, buy a bit of lumber (4'x8' plywood, to start) and see where your efforts lead you. I bet, you'll find some fun.

FrankM

Moonson posted:

paigetrain posted:

i am probably the most diehard train fan ever but i can never afford anything and the club i tried to join never added me and the guy who said i could run stuff at his place NEVER answers my calls nobody else understands my problem people who have offered stuff to me here never followed through now 8 years have past and no o gauge progress yet because something always gets in the way

PAIGETRAIN, Have you tried starting even a modicum of a layout? Starting one can be very rewarding, and other hobbyists might find your progress attractive.

For example, once my wife and I had settled completely into our new home as newlyweds, in the mid-90's, I asked if she wouldn't mind if I began building a layout in the basement. She encouraged me. In a short time, we had (note the use of "we") friends and family visiting to see what-was--what, and the road since then even included my doing layout work for Lionel at FAO Schwarz, in NYC. I had no idea my fiddling with creating a layout would lead me to such enjoyment.

So, I suggest, that if you have not started a layout, buy a bit of lumber (4'x8' plywood, to start) and see where your efforts lead you. I bet, you'll find some fun.

FrankM

I don't even have an o gauge starter set i want the BNSF tier 4 but again it's 400 bucks

raising4daughters posted:

Get us past electrified track. We can talk about realistic modeling, but until the power is on board in the locomotive, we'll never have truly realistic models. 

Here's a novel thought - if phones and watches can charge by simple contact, think what we can do with locomotives, and have them run on 2-rail track, utilizing Bluetooth....

Paigetrains, I knew a blond headed boy back in 1968 who wanted a train set.  His dad said that was too expensive for a Christmas gift, and he should save his money to buy one.  The boy got 25 cents a week for allowance and a few cents helping his grandmother with gardening.  Finally he had saved enough to buy an inexpensive Tyco HO train set with an F7, about 4 freight cars, and some track.  That set, sans power transformer was $20.  A Lionel DC power pack was another $5.  So he had saved $25 to buy that set.  An inflation calculator shows that $25 then was the equivalent of $181 today as the inflation rate over 50 years was 624%.

All was well and good but this boy's mother was tired of the train setup on the floor, so this boy asked his dad about a 4x8 sheet of plywood.  You know what Dad said.  I don't know how much the plywood cost, but his dad finally took him to the lumber yard for the boy to buy the plywood.  This boy built a frame for the plywood out of scrap wood his dad had laying around.  His dad never helped, but always gave words of encouragement, and taught the boy all the carpentry and electrical skills needed while doing home repairs.  As this boy moved through his teenage years, he earned his spare money mostly by mowing his neighbor's and grandmother's lawns.  Both lawns took about 2 to 2 1/2 hours to mow, and he got $2 for each mowing.  That would be $14.50 in today's money.  He bought some plastic building kits, more track, and basic scenic materials.  He had that layout in his parents' basement until he finished college and moved to another state to work.  He bought one more engine and only a few more freight cars over those years.  Minimal expense.  Everyone has probably guessed the blond headed boy grew up to be the guy writing this little story.  

Today, I work with a man who has a 10-year old son who is very interested in old electrical things.  The dad asked me for help picking out a train set.  I was thinking Lionchief, but that boy wanted a postwar train.  They finally bought a postwar set off eBay at a great price.  The set runs beautifully, and that boy has learned how to maintain the engine.

I go to the Greenberg shows in Monroeville, Pennsylvania and see lots of dads with boys and some girls who are very interested in trains of all scales, gauges, and eras.  I am quite impressed with the activity I see at the Pittsburgh area S-scale club's American Flyer layout.  There are always two club members enthusiastically teaching eager kids how to work the operating accessories.  The Pittsburgh Lego club always has a layout setup and kids are quite interested.  The other clubs get a following of kids watching the trains.

The Pittsburgh Independent HiRailers have at least two teen aged members who are members of this Forum.  Look at Corner Field Model Railroad and Hobby Shop.  Tom Elesh Jr. is in his mid 20s and is an extremely enthusiastic advocate for the hobby.  The Railroading in America Magazine was started by a group of high school students who are producing a great little magazine covering prototype and model trains.

I still say the future is bright, and a person can get into the hobby at low cost; just like that boy whom I wrote about at the top of my comment did 50 years ago.  

Your story, Mark, is very inspirational. Thanks for sharing it. Arnold

Between 1960-1969 there was no investment in new models of freight locomotives and freight car models in O scale by LIONEL. It seemed like the company was going to fold up and vanish. 

If the LionScale cars and diesel-electric Locomotives can be properly produced with enough talented people, then they can keep going. 

Andrew

Having worked at a hobby shop and seeing the manufacturer/distributor side of the hobby, I can say for certain a few things:

- The hobby is far, far from dying.  If I had a dime for every family or young person that I saw come in seeking to learn more about the hobby or get a starter set, I'd be wealthier than Rockefeller.  The HO and N scale sides of the hobby are booming like never before, and even overall interest in O gauge is hardly "waning."

- There is increasingly becoming a divide in the O gauge hobby. On one hand, there are younger people/families/etc. who are looking for Lionchief/Railking/Williams and accessories to build a "fun-centered" and "action-packed" layout, much like the ones so many older folks built as children in the 40s-60s.  On the other hand, there are the seasoned hobbyists looking for the top-of-the-line, state-of-the-art, high-end Legacy/Premier equipment.

- The latter of these two (seasoned hobbyists) is the only portion of the hobby that I see declining.  More people desiring realism are moving to the far cheaper, more plentiful, and in many ways even higher tech HO market.

- O gauge manufacturers know that their best bet is with younger generations.  From my perspective, the QC on "lower-end" Lionchief sets and engines is absolutely superior to that of Legacy equipment.  The manufacturers are just putting more care into them because a disappointed hobbyist with 50 other trains to run is a lesser evil than a disappointed child who just got a broken train set for Christmas.

- Seeing all of this, I almost want to sell my Legacy equipment and either embrace my inner child and go for vintage postwar stuff and/or newer Lionchief stuff, or else pursue my desire for realism and move to HO where I can get a fully detailed scale steam engine with sounds, smoke, and command control, that won't be broken straight out of the box, and has a better warranty if it does break, all for under $400.

- Nevertheless, I do not point the blame towards manufacturers.  You have an increasingly small segment of the hobby demanding ever more detail and features, but unwilling for prices to increase.  In fact, I give Lionel and MTH a lot of credit for continuing to pour money and resources into the high-end of the hobby and not just throwing in the towel and going solely for what makes money - starter sets, accessories, and more affordable trains.  This is the reason I still feel ok supporting them and buying the Legacy and Premier stuff that I love even when I do face QC issues a bit too often.

To conclude, the hobby is not dying at all, but it is changing.  In some ways, it's actually becoming more like it was in the golden years of the 50s when the focus was on rugged trains for kids!  But I can say the best way to build up the hobby is not to point fingers of blame at each other or at manufacturers, but rather be thankful we have this great hobby to enjoy at all and work together to build each other up.

Woody, Very, very well said!

OGR CEO-PUBLISHER posted:

Paul Kallus posted:

What is needed is another company or an individual with deep-pockets that could buy an existing O-gauge company and be willing to improve the manufacturing process and compete with the existing O-gauge manufacturers the old-fashioned way: by building a better product at a competitive price point while investing money in the manufacturing/QC process.

Think "Menards"

If I only shopped for Menards trains I’d just have a really nice town with a really nice static freight yard. But since they don’t ship to California, I can’t have either!

I don’t believe for a second that the hobby is dying. I’ve seen so many incredible layouts, and there are even more that I haven’t visited yet. Probably more than I can visit in a lifetime. 

OGR CEO-PUBLISHER posted:

Lets not turn this into another complaining QC thread guys....stick to the OPs discussion topic.  Now...just so you know....I personally don't think the hobby is dying.  What is dying is the baby boomer people in the hobby!  At OGR and in particular here on the forum, we are seeing a lot of new people joining who are taking the place of those that have passed to the station in the sky so to speak.  Five years ago, our average number of new members joining this forum was around 100 or a little more per month.  Steadily that has been rising and during just this past month...in December... 387 new members signed on to the OGR forum!  Our averages over the past year or so have been around 2-300 per month.  So....the hobby still is very viable and is evolving.  I believe that there are still many people that enjoy trains and the hobby in general through a variety of ways from the simple conventional operator to the guy or gal that has a multitude of operating systems.  If you want to instill the hobby into future generations, YOU have to take some of the responsibility by making a model train a gift to a friend or relative.  Those of you that don't know what to do with your paper magazines and talk about trashing or recycling them....consider donating them to your local libraries, doctor's waiting rooms, and just plain giving them away during train meets to the younger crowd.  You never know when that give away will spark the interest of a future hobbyist!

Alan's above reply inspired me last night to perform my model train song, Who Am I (Rollin' By), at an Open Mic at Patsy's Pizzaria and Restaurant in New Rochelle, NY.

What I did was perform it Karaoke style, playing the recording using a Bose Blue Tooth speaker next to one microphone, while singing the song into another microphone. 

I was the 2nd performer in a very busy restaurant with a lot of background noise, and did not expect too many people to pay attention to me. That is what happened with the first performer who did a nice rendition of Van Morrison's hit, Brown Eyed Girl.  I have not performed my model train song at Open Mic's recently, thinking that most people are not model railroaders, and would not be interested in it.

Anyway, as soon as I started the song last night, the background noise completely stopped.  I was amazed that I had everyone's attention. Strangers having dinner, as well as my Open Mic friends, were smiling at me, and some were bobbing their heads to the rhythm of the chorus!  When I was done, I got a standing ovation!

I think my song, Who Am I (Rollin' By), is good for promoting our hobby. For those of you who have not yet heard it, you can access it by doing a search on this Forum for: Phil Klopp Layout & Model Train Song, which is a topic I posted on November 11, 2017. There is a link in my initial post for playing the video/song.

About 1 year ago, I submitted for publication an article I wrote about how I was inspired to write the song with CTT, OGR and the TCA. CTT and OGR never published it, probably because no one ever submitted anything like that to them before, which is understandable.  However, I had a very nice 40 minute telephone conversation with Alan Arnold,  turned me on to this Forum. Also, the TCA did publish my article in their Winter 2018 edition of their e-Train Magazine. To access the article on TCA's e-Train Magazine, you may need to log in as a member of TCA.

If you like the video/song, I suggest that the next time you run your trains for an audience, you play my video/song for them.  You have my full permission to do so. Phil Klopp has told me that each time he has done this, the video/song was very well received. 

I believe the cliche, there are many ways to skin a cat, applies when it comes to promoting our hobby.  Arnold

I display O gauge trains in  my office, in my room, mostly Lionel.  I have been at the same location 33 years. Always, there is a positive reaction. New clients love them, young and old. The young ones always want to touch them. Even opposing lawyers who come in for depositions, change their attitude upon seeing the trains and tell me about their childhood. Yes, insurance company lawyers! I had some work done to the office  over the last year  and the trains came down. "Where are your trains?" was a common refrain. They are now back, I am happy to say. Our trains evoke a response that transcends differences. Even as a young lawyer, I worked in center city Philly and went to see a client in N Philly and the oldest son had an HO train set in his room. Many people still think Lionel went out of business, so better marketing is needed. But there seems to be a need for a person feeling in control of a private world, which trains more than meet. This is a universal feeling.

Mark

barrister.2u posted:

I display O gauge trains in  my office, in my room, mostly Lionel.  I have been at the same location 33 years. Always, there is a positive reaction. New clients love them, young and old. The young ones always want to touch them. Even opposing lawyers who come in for depositions, change their attitude upon seeing the trains and tell me about their childhood. Yes, insurance company lawyers! I had some work done to the office  over the last year  and the trains came down. "Where are your trains?" was a common refrain. They are now back, I am happy to say. Our trains evoke a response that transcends differences. Even as a young lawyer, I worked in center city Philly and went to see a client in N Philly and the oldest son had an HO train set in his room. Many people still think Lionel went out of business, so better marketing is needed. But there seems to be a need for a person feeling in control of a private world, which trains more than meet. This is a universal feeling.

Mark

I am a lawyer too, Mark. I have not yet displayed any of my trains in my White Plains, NY office yet, but you have convinced me to do so. Arnold

Woody Ridenour posted:

Having worked at a hobby shop and seeing the manufacturer/distributor side of the hobby, I can say for certain a few things:

- The hobby is far, far from dying.  If I had a dime for every family or young person that I saw come in seeking to learn more about the hobby or get a starter set, I'd be wealthier than Rockefeller.  The HO and N scale sides of the hobby are booming like never before, and even overall interest in O gauge is hardly "waning."

- There is increasingly becoming a divide in the O gauge hobby. On one hand, there are younger people/families/etc. who are looking for Lionchief/Railking/Williams and accessories to build a "fun-centered" and "action-packed" layout, much like the ones so many older folks built as children in the 40s-60s.  On the other hand, there are the seasoned hobbyists looking for the top-of-the-line, state-of-the-art, high-end Legacy/Premier equipment.

- The latter of these two (seasoned hobbyists) is the only portion of the hobby that I see declining.  More people desiring realism are moving to the far cheaper, more plentiful, and in many ways even higher tech HO market.

- O gauge manufacturers know that their best bet is with younger generations.  From my perspective, the QC on "lower-end" Lionchief sets and engines is absolutely superior to that of Legacy equipment.  The manufacturers are just putting more care into them because a disappointed hobbyist with 50 other trains to run is a lesser evil than a disappointed child who just got a broken train set for Christmas.

- Seeing all of this, I almost want to sell my Legacy equipment and either embrace my inner child and go for vintage postwar stuff and/or newer Lionchief stuff, or else pursue my desire for realism and move to HO where I can get a fully detailed scale steam engine with sounds, smoke, and command control, that won't be broken straight out of the box, and has a better warranty if it does break, all for under $400.

- Nevertheless, I do not point the blame towards manufacturers.  You have an increasingly small segment of the hobby demanding ever more detail and features, but unwilling for prices to increase.  In fact, I give Lionel and MTH a lot of credit for continuing to pour money and resources into the high-end of the hobby and not just throwing in the towel and going solely for what makes money - starter sets, accessories, and more affordable trains.  This is the reason I still feel ok supporting them and buying the Legacy and Premier stuff that I love even when I do face QC issues a bit too often.

To conclude, the hobby is not dying at all, but it is changing.  In some ways, it's actually becoming more like it was in the golden years of the 50s when the focus was on rugged trains for kids!  But I can say the best way to build up the hobby is not to point fingers of blame at each other or at manufacturers, but rather be thankful we have this great hobby to enjoy at all and work together to build each other up.

Well written and thoughtful insight on the market many of us don't know. Thanks.

I was just discussing with my wife Mark's idea that our model trains give us control in our little World, which has universal appeal, because in the real World where we often lack control.

If your friends, colleagues and/or clients/customers have similar feelings, you can share your trains with them and this universal desire to have more control.

For instance, in my work as a divorce lawyer, I encourage most prospective clients to have a collaborative or mediated divorce instead of litigating their divorce. I plan to put on my web site a picture of my model train layout, and say, in sum and substance: one can have control in a little world of model trains; you can also have more control when you do divorce mediation or have a collaborative divorce, unlike a litigated divorce where the the divorcing couple gives up control and puts it in the hands of a Judge, who has complete control. Arnold

barrister.2u posted:

I display O gauge trains in  my office, in my room, mostly Lionel.  I have been at the same location 33 years. Always, there is a positive reaction. New clients love them, young and old. The young ones always want to touch them. Even opposing lawyers who come in for depositions, change their attitude upon seeing the trains and tell me about their childhood. Yes, insurance company lawyers! I had some work done to the office  over the last year  and the trains came down. "Where are your trains?" was a common refrain. They are now back, I am happy to say. Our trains evoke a response that transcends differences. Even as a young lawyer, I worked in center city Philly and went to see a client in N Philly and the oldest son had an HO train set in his room. Many people still think Lionel went out of business, so better marketing is needed. But there seems to be a need for a person feeling in control of a private world, which trains more than meet. This is a universal feeling.

Mark

Mark,

I am a retired telecom engineer, who has done temporary staff work for my old company the last three years.  I have a cubical where I have an old K-Line PRR engine, a couple Menards boxcars, and a Lionel PRR caboose on the shelf behind my head.  If a cleaning person breaks them, no loss, but they do bring some interest in our almost empty office.  Almost empty since the company that bought our original company in 2007 had depleted our ranks massively.  That is why I am 62, and took the measly pension and a payoff 3 years ago.  I've been laid off for 3 months, and am sure the trains are just where I left them.  They remind coworkers of me.  

Mark Boyce posted:

Paigetrains, I knew a blond headed boy back in 1968 who wanted a train set.  His dad said that was too expensive for a Christmas gift, and he should save his money to buy one.  The boy got 25 cents a week for allowance and a few cents helping his grandmother with gardening.  Finally he had saved enough to buy an inexpensive Tyco HO train set with an F7, about 4 freight cars, and some track.  That set, sans power transformer was $20.  A Lionel DC power pack was another $5.  So he had saved $25 to buy that set.  An inflation calculator shows that $25 then was the equivalent of $181 today as the inflation rate over 50 years was 624%.

All was well and good but this boy's mother was tired of the train setup on the floor, so this boy asked his dad about a 4x8 sheet of plywood.  You know what Dad said.  I don't know how much the plywood cost, but his dad finally took him to the lumber yard for the boy to buy the plywood.  This boy built a frame for the plywood out of scrap wood his dad had laying around.  His dad never helped, but always gave words of encouragement, and taught the boy all the carpentry and electrical skills needed while doing home repairs.  As this boy moved through his teenage years, he earned his spare money mostly by mowing his neighbor's and grandmother's lawns.  Both lawns took about 2 to 2 1/2 hours to mow, and he got $2 for each mowing.  That would be $14.50 in today's money.  He bought some plastic building kits, more track, and basic scenic materials.  He had that layout in his parents' basement until he finished college and moved to another state to work.  He bought one more engine and only a few more freight cars over those years.  Minimal expense.  Everyone has probably guessed the blond headed boy grew up to be the guy writing this little story.  

Today, I work with a man who has a 10-year old son who is very interested in old electrical things.  The dad asked me for help picking out a train set.  I was thinking Lionchief, but that boy wanted a postwar train.  They finally bought a postwar set off eBay at a great price.  The set runs beautifully, and that boy has learned how to maintain the engine.

I go to the Greenberg shows in Monroeville, Pennsylvania and see lots of dads with boys and some girls who are very interested in trains of all scales, gauges, and eras.  I am quite impressed with the activity I see at the Pittsburgh area S-scale club's American Flyer layout.  There are always two club members enthusiastically teaching eager kids how to work the operating accessories.  The Pittsburgh Lego club always has a layout setup and kids are quite interested.  The other clubs get a following of kids watching the trains.

The Pittsburgh Independent HiRailers have at least two teen aged members who are members of this Forum.  Look at Corner Field Model Railroad and Hobby Shop.  Tom Elesh Jr. is in his mid 20s and is an extremely enthusiastic advocate for the hobby.  The Railroading in America Magazine was started by a group of high school students who are producing a great little magazine covering prototype and model trains.

I still say the future is bright, and a person can get into the hobby at low cost; just like that boy whom I wrote about at the top of my comment did 50 years ago.  

This is a wonderful story and most likely is similar to what many of us experienced.  One can not always expect everything to be given to you...sometimes you have to muster up the mindset that your are going to make it happen even if you have to find a way on your own.  One can't expect to afford all of the things (trains) we would like to have and may have to start out with much less....but the important lesson here is you have to get started even if it means you have to go it alone.

Traindiesel posted:

OGR CEO-PUBLISHER posted:

Paul Kallus posted:

What is needed is another company or an individual with deep-pockets that could buy an existing O-gauge company and be willing to improve the manufacturing process and compete with the existing O-gauge manufacturers the old-fashioned way: by building a better product at a competitive price point while investing money in the manufacturing/QC process.

Think "Menards"

If I only shopped for Menards trains I’d just have a really nice town with a really nice static freight yard. But since they don’t ship to California, I can’t have either!

I don’t believe for a second that the hobby is dying. I’ve seen so many incredible layouts, and there are even more that I haven’t visited yet. Probably more than I can visit in a lifetime. 

That is a problem that is not Menard's fault......but give it time and I am sure they will meet the requirements so in the meantime, find a friend in another state that will ship to you...

raising4daughters posted:

Two ideas I've read here and on other threads that I really like:

1. Ship me (or let me buy) components. I think there's a geek side (myself included) of the market being missed. Some kids will always like building things from scratch. Same for some adults. That's partly why there was such an outcry when ERR was being shut down. In a similar vein, I'd love to be able to upgrade some TMCC 1.0 engines to LC+ with bluetooth.

2. Get us past electrified track. We can talk about realistic modeling, but until the power is on board in the locomotive, we'll never have truly realistic models. 

Just my $0.02.

My kids are 5 and 11. My 11 year old daughter has been pretty lukewarm about the trains themselves, but I recently discovered she is excited about building the buildings and helping design the layout scenery. I am encouraging her to design and paint the floor, walls, and even to learn how to make (gasp!) miniature graffiti. That last idea got her buying paint and searching the web for ideas - very fun for her. 

So, my point is the hobby is varied and finding what sparks newcomers, kids both little and big, is our obligation if we want to keep it healthy and strong. My $.02. 

CoastsideKevin posted:

raising4daughters posted:

Two ideas I've read here and on other threads that I really like:

1. Ship me (or let me buy) components. I think there's a geek side (myself included) of the market being missed. Some kids will always like building things from scratch. Same for some adults. That's partly why there was such an outcry when ERR was being shut down. In a similar vein, I'd love to be able to upgrade some TMCC 1.0 engines to LC+ with bluetooth.

2. Get us past electrified track. We can talk about realistic modeling, but until the power is on board in the locomotive, we'll never have truly realistic models. 

Just my $0.02.

My kids are 5 and 11. My 11 year old daughter has been pretty lukewarm about the trains themselves, but I recently discovered she is excited about building the buildings and helping design the layout scenery. I am encouraging her to design and paint the floor, walls, and even to learn how to make (gasp!) miniature graffiti. That last idea got her buying paint and searching the web for ideas - very fun for her. 

So, my point is the hobby is varied and finding what sparks newcomers, kids both little and big, is our obligation if we want to keep it healthy and strong. My $.02. 

Kevin, you might also tell your young daughter stories about the little people and animals on your layout. Also, give them rides in your gondolas and train cars. It's like playing with little dolls.

This is what I did with my daughter when she was a little girl. She loved it. Arnold

the only thing I see missing from the hobby is the men(Dads). I go to 5 shows in Northern New York State in the fall and early winter before Christmas. I set up my 8'x 12' O and O27 gauge train board, with a Standard gauge running on the floor into tunnels under my board(that gets more attention than anything else I run). But at every show, the majority of my spectators are young Moms with 2, 3, 4 and even 5 kids. The kids have a blast, Mom is happy!!! I just wonder where the Dads are. When I do see some Dads, many of them are in a hurry to pull their kids away from the running of the trains so they (the Dads), can go look at and purchase trains themselves.  Men!!! It's all about the kids, AND when I attend these shows, it's never about the trains!! It is about the relationships and friendships I have made over the past 20-30 years. I see many of the same faces and the comradery is priceless.  With my running trains, my work bench and my test track I have planted many a seed for the youngsters to get involved with the hobby and I have helped many dealers make numerous sales simply by testing, fixing and/or recommending and pointing Moms (and some Dads) in the proper direction to purchase trains for the kids so we can keep this great hobby of ours going.  My father-in-law died 5 years ago and I ended up with some of his trains and ALL of his parts. Some day I will be gone and some one else can take my trains and carry that torch!!!!

Popi, sadly when it come to the fathers either they don't have visitation rights at all or their visitation agreement doesn't allow such activities.

Popi posted:

the only thing I see missing from the hobby is the men(Dads). I go to 5 shows in Northern New York State in the fall and early winter before Christmas. I set up my 8'x 12' O and O27 gauge train board, with a Standard gauge running on the floor into tunnels under my board(that gets more attention than anything else I run). But at every show, the majority of my spectators are young Moms with 2, 3, 4 and even 5 kids. The kids have a blast, Mom is happy!!! I just wonder where the Dads are. When I do see some Dads, many of them are in a hurry to pull their kids away from the running of the trains so they (the Dads), can go look at and purchase trains themselves.  Men!!! It's all about the kids, AND when I attend these shows, it's never about the trains!! It is about the relationships and friendships I have made over the past 20-30 years. I see many of the same faces and the comradery is priceless.  With my running trains, my work bench and my test track I have planted many a seed for the youngsters to get involved with the hobby and I have helped many dealers make numerous sales simply by testing, fixing and/or recommending and pointing Moms (and some Dads) in the proper direction to purchase trains for the kids so we can keep this great hobby of ours going.  My father-in-law died 5 years ago and I ended up with some of his trains and ALL of his parts. Some day I will be gone and some one else can take my trains and carry that torch!!!!

 

I’ve been enjoying this hobby since 1969. From what I see we have been on a great ride since MTH fueled it in the mid 90’s. 

If you want something to worry about? There are a thousand things more worrisome than this. 

Come and stop by to see what me and my family created for people to see for generations to come for the hobbyists. Children, Familes, Adults. Just something for someone to see.

And at our museum layout, as I'm the layout operator most times and my family could not agree more, that we do not see any kids disliking this hobby and definitely do not see it dying. It's for young generation. So lets all make this possible for other people that have layouts and shops to make the best of it to make trains keep going and to never die just like what we created at our place.

As quoted from Shining Time - "There's Just Something About This Place".

Which brings me to what we created for people to see, will always and I mean always bring lasting memories for the lost childhood.

So stop by and see our museum layout at Corner Field Model Railroad Museum & Hobby Shop in Huntsburg Ohio to see the largest family owned 3-Rail layout in the country of the United States.

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Remember, One Thing About About Trains, It Doesn't Matter Where Their Going, What Matters is Deciding To Get On.

Reality for me. $1800 engines, $80 rolling stock?

Costs are too high and they break too often.

But at the end of the day I realize it's a hobby and I don't have to play!

carsntrains posted:

rockstars1989 posted:

I hear what you are saying Mike. And I could not agree more. However your a little behind in the times. A pair of designer jeans costs $169.00. Had to bust your chops a little my friend.Enjoy! Nick                           

But walmart wranglers are 14.99.   asian make overalls 49.00 verses USA made (that I buy) around 84.00 ... Chinese hat 4.00 .. USA hat 20.00   ...   Take off everything you have on not made in the USA.   Odds are all of us would be naked!  But me.  In my USA made overalls!

Jim

I buy my jeans from the All American Clothing Company.  They are 100% US made here and the craftsmanship is top notch. Prices range from $45 -$55 per pair but they have periodic sales for 20% off.  Its funny that Haggar jeans cost $45-$49 and they are made in China. Then take King Louie American made shirts about $35-$39 . That's what the "name brand" made in China shirts cost. I don't buy the B.S. that you can't build anything here competitively. With today's CNC equipment that keep labor at a reasonable level and lower transport costs,  we  certainly can build model trains here in the USA competitively and enjoy far superior quality.

The hobby is dying the way we wish it still was, those days are gone. Not everyone has plenty of money where they can give their kids everything trains feature low on the list.   Kids are still clever my two eldest grandkids (I have nine) come and stay with us separately mainly for one night I would like them to stay for three not possible. We have no TV and when they come to visit I don't allow them to have their Beep, Beep's with them I get them out in the workshop this is one kid at a time not both together and they know about tools I show them things but after a day they want to go home even running the trains doesn't keep their interests so I have to be happy with one day and one night we still have fun.

On the other hand these two boys are clever I have seen them put the most complicated High Tech Lego models together in two days unaided. and the eldest gets up and switches some cars on the layout without me showing him, I sometimes think they do these things just to show Grandad that, yes, we can do other things if we want to, so leave us alone with our electronic gear and join in for a game or two ! I'm laughing. Roo.

OGR CEO-PUBLISHER posted:

Traindiesel posted:

OGR CEO-PUBLISHER posted:

Paul Kallus posted:

What is needed is another company or an individual with deep-pockets that could buy an existing O-gauge company and be willing to improve the manufacturing process and compete with the existing O-gauge manufacturers the old-fashioned way: by building a better product at a competitive price point while investing money in the manufacturing/QC process.

Think "Menards"

If I only shopped for Menards trains I’d just have a really nice town with a really nice static freight yard. But since they don’t ship to California, I can’t have either!

I don’t believe for a second that the hobby is dying. I’ve seen so many incredible layouts, and there are even more that I haven’t visited yet. Probably more than I can visit in a lifetime. 

That is a problem that is not Menard's fault......but give it time and I am sure they will meet the requirements so in the meantime, find a friend in another state that will ship to you...

Something missing here - I live in CA and Menards ships to me whenever I order.

carsntrains posted:

Texas Pete posted:

The realities of the O gauge 3-rail hobby for me is that there's plenty of good-running reliable postwar stuff available on the secondary market.  Also, reality, except for clutter, is not permitted on my toy train layout.

Pete

Yeah thats the thinking that was going on in my other hobby.  Blow molded Christmas decorations.  "no need to worry about the new stuff"    This year the last big company that made them went under.  Now the pricing on the older stuff and whats around of the newer stuff has skyrocketed.  

Jim

Not happy to hear about that. I assume you are referring to General Foam Plastics.

I’m not a collector of Christmas blow molds, per se, but I have enough that my wife asks anytime I eye a new one if we have room for it.

Looks like I should have bought the classic Santa and his reindeer blow mold when I last had a chance in 2016 at Menards, which stocked that particular blow mold annually for years.

Our O gauge hobby isn’t down to one manufacturer, fortunately, but I have to admit it makes me uncomfortable that virtually every locomotive is made in the same province in China.

Yes, there are other things to worry about, but c’mon, you could make that blanket statement about anyone who worries about anything. For those of us who have enjoyed new releases in this hobby, I feel justified worrying whether the economic and political environment will allow that to continue.

SURFLINER posted:

OGR CEO-PUBLISHER posted:

Traindiesel posted:

OGR CEO-PUBLISHER posted:

Paul Kallus posted:

What is needed is another company or an individual with deep-pockets that could buy an existing O-gauge company and be willing to improve the manufacturing process and compete with the existing O-gauge manufacturers the old-fashioned way: by building a better product at a competitive price point while investing money in the manufacturing/QC process.

Think "Menards"

If I only shopped for Menards trains I’d just have a really nice town with a really nice static freight yard. But since they don’t ship to California, I can’t have either!

I don’t believe for a second that the hobby is dying. I’ve seen so many incredible layouts, and there are even more that I haven’t visited yet. Probably more than I can visit in a lifetime. 

That is a problem that is not Menard's fault......but give it time and I am sure they will meet the requirements so in the meantime, find a friend in another state that will ship to you...

Something missing here - I live in CA and Menards ships to me whenever I order.

Have you ordered anything from Menards since Aug. 30, when California started enforcing new rules tied to Proposition 65?

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