The SD80MAC: Fall from Grace (videos)

pittsburghrailfan posted:

...the sale of the SD80MACs represents, in my opinion, the culmination of NS's transition from a railfan favorite to a fan lampoon...

You've got to be  kidding. Do you really think that NS, or any railroad for that matter, gives a hoot what railfans think about them? They are a profit-based BUSINESS, and the SD80MAC units did not fit well with their current business model and their system motive power plan. That's why they are gone.

Rich Melvin posted:

pittsburghrailfan posted:

...the sale of the SD80MACs represents, in my opinion, the culmination of NS's transition from a railfan favorite to a fan lampoon...

You've got to be  kidding. Do you really think that NS, or any railroad for that matter, gives a hoot what railfans think about them? They are a profit-based BUSINESS, and the SD80MAC units did not fit well with their current business model and their system motive power plan. That's why they are gone.

No, I do not think the current crop of leadership at NS listens (past administrations may have done stuff for good PR), and was not trying to imply there was any sort of obligation for them to freeze their motive power pools ("in my opinion"). I was expressing my personal belief (and those of others) that NS over the past 5 years has gotten less fun to railfan in terms of power. I will go further afield to catch what I am looking for, and NS will probably welcome the lack of intrusion. I tried to capture the decline of the utility of the SD80MACs to NS as a business in the rest of the paragraph above, and did not make my point clearly. 

My apologies if I seemed combative; I am trying to rephrase my point to make it more comprehensible. Were you taking issue with the nostalgia of the statement, or the fact that I made the statement? 

I do try to listen to complaints; I bought a tripod based on a comment you made on one of my earlier videos, so I would welcome an elaboration on what aspect of my opinion was most objectionable. 

Dan, I got your point that NS is a little less fun to watch with those big old 80MACs gone and of course we all know railroads are (and indeed must be) in business to make a profit, not make us Foamers happy. 

Also too, aren't the 80MACs starting to be long in the tooth for Class I service?  I don't see too many shortlines or even regionals being interested in those big brutes. 

Ex Cons looking for work...

4:05 - No Outlet.  How is that train gonna turn around? 

EMD posted:

Ex Cons looking for work...

It took me a minute. 

Ron045 posted:

4:05 - No Outlet.  How is that train gonna turn around? 

 

That sign is a feature in many of Dan's videos.   It is an excellent venue, isn't it? Very much on public, NOT railroad, property but quite close to the right-of-way.

pittsburghrailfan posted:

I don't normally do these sort of compilation videos, but the sale of the SD80MACs represents, in my opinion, the culmination of NS's transition from a railfan favorite to a fan lampoon, and deserves a marker. Though the MACs rarely came out to the Fort Wayne Line, I managed to catch 4 of them as the arrival of new AC power meant that the MACs were reassigned to more than just Sonman coal trains. My three meager catches represent the shift: As in the first clip, MACs were still dominant, though they were out of place on an NS system that relied on DC and intermodal. The second clip represents how the MACs briefly found a home as "just another unit" when new AC power arrived, while the final clip demonstrates the operational changes NS was making that again put the MACs on the outside. There will be three more videos in the coming months reflecting on the changes in NS's power profile that have occurred in the seven years I've spent trackside (5 of them on Youtube). MACs featured: 7200, 7205, 7213, 7219.

I wonder were gonna end up?Maybe some units could go to MRL or RJ Corman.I know of a short line railroad who has a few SD60F CN.And I have seen a few units on trains.Or they might end up in leasing company power.You never know.

Has anybody thought about the fact that they are due a MAJOR overhaul?

Hot Water posted:

Has anybody thought about the fact that they are due a MAJOR overhaul?

Fair point; up until the fleet downsizing began, Junitia Works said that the plan was to give the units an SD70ACU-esque makeover, upgrading the prime movers to meet (I believe it was Tier 1) emissions standards, a bump to 5,500 HP, and most critically replacing the Siemens electrical equipment. You would know better than I whether a major leasing company or midsize shortline would be willing to contract with MEI or similar (like Carload Express is supposedly doing for its SD60Ms) for units that don't fit the 4,400 standard. Some folks are speculating that RBM&N will take them; my personal, unqualified opinion is that after taking NS's unrebuilt SD50s, a few GP38-2s and MP15DCs, and an AB FP9, they have little to no need for more power. 

And were they not 20 cylinder?

Dan,

I enjoyed the video.  I am old enough to remember mainline steam and a huge variety of cars from railroads all over the country in a single train.  We used to try to list the equipment of all the different railroads that were in a train.  Now all the engines and cars are black and white and you can't see the cars ownership as a train passes by.  It is too bad that video had not been invented back in the day and color film was not very fast.  

Thanks for sharing the video.  NH Joe

Could they have been made to operate on 16 cylinders, to fit the SD70ACU classification/specs?

Surprising that NS would give up 710s

EMD posted:

Could they have been made to operate on 16 cylinders, to fit the SD70ACU classification/specs?

Well,,,,,,,they COULD, but why would anyone want to do that? Why not simply overhaul the 20-710, and the various rotating electrical components?

I thought CSX purchased some of them from NS. ?  

John Pignatelli JR. posted:

I thought CSX purchased some of them from NS. ?  

 

The opposite, actually.  In 2014, thereabouts, CSX traded NS their 12 SD80MACs for 12 SD40-2s (former SD40 rebuilds, so I have heard). 

I stand corrected, poor guys will be missed, most likely go to the Rent a loc guys.

Guess I better enjoy my NS branchline GP 38-2's while we have them !  I love hearing their prime movers power up.  

The 80MAC's were a one off for CR.  But it was the locomotive with the right HP that CR was looking for.  CR had more on order, but wad switched to SD70 models before the split.

Expensive and too specialized...

The 80MACs were a one-off period.

My understanding is that 5,500 HP just isn't quite what railroads need. Two of such units aren't quite enough and three are more than wanted, especially with Distributed Power. Power blocks of abt 13,000 HP seem to be the sweet-spot so those giants are left out in the cold.

geysergazer posted:

The 80MACs were a one-off period.

My understanding is that 5,500 HP just isn't quite what railroads need.

Maybe not other railroads but after an extensive industrial engineering study, Conrail concluded that the 5500HP SD80MAC was best suited for THEIR needs. And they worked extremely well!

Two of such units aren't quite enough

Again,,,,,,,,,two such units was indeed quite enough for Conrail.

and three are more than wanted,

THAT depended on the tonnage of the train, and the terrain covered.

especially with Distributed Power.

The SD80Mac units were a bit prior to DPU usage.

Power blocks of abt 13,000 HP seem to be the sweet-spot so those giants are left out in the cold.

Do you have a lot of experience in motive power distribution vs. track-train dynamics, for given railroad districts?

The SD80Mac units were a bit prior to DPU usage.

And that, Hot Water, was my point. I wasn't addressing Conrail's [past/original] experience but rather why there have never been new orders for the 80MAC or anything similar. 

Do you have a lot of experience in motive power distribution vs. track-train dynamics, for given railroad districts?

Oh give me a break! I won't even dignify that with a response. I posted my reply in hopes that someone who DOES have pertinent experience might elucidate. People use the phrase "It is my understanding" when they have a little knowledge and are prodding for more. Do YOU have knowledge wrt why the horsepower race stopped? I'm just going by what I can observe: "It is my understanding" that PSR is driving DPU and 13,000 HP fits the desired drawbar force (and yes, I understand drawbar force is not HP but higher HP locomotives also carry the weight to enable higher drawbar force). Do you have any useful comment?

If I remember correctly the 80’s were set up for DPU or at least some form of radio/remote control.  So was a group of C40-8W’s- Conrail tried it on some coal and ore trains but it never went into widespread use.