thoughts on reversing loops

To me reversing loops and wyes are essential to allow you more running options. If you have the space that is.

Rod

I agree with Rod. I was glad I put 2 reverse loops on my layout.

Yes.  Real trains reverse.  They do NOT circle.  Do real railroads have loops?  YES.  I couldn't believe all of the loops I saw along the high-line in North Dakota!  WOW!  On a model railroad, these loops will allow you to go either direction without picking-up your engines/rolling stock.  In three rail, the reverse is easy.  No polarity issues.  In addition, wire the turnout with the non-derailing feature!  Easy!!!!

I was in HO for years.  I wish it would have been this incredibly simple.  It isn't in 2 rail.

I read everything I could find by John Armstrong before we started our first layout and he advocates for reversing loops - so we incorporated them.  Great idea, and they will be implemented in our next layout too.  But in practice, we don't use too often.  I think if you have a double main line with trains going in opposite directions and have industry drop off/pick up stub or terminal tracks, they will get a lot of use.   

More important, you say you want to incorporate "a" reversing loop.  One reversing loop defeats the purpose. You need two, or expect to back through it every time you want to reverse "back" to the original path you were traveling before going through the reversion loop. 

Peter

I have a large layout with a reversing loop, in that a train can leave the eastbound loop and return in the opposite direction on the westbound loop (or vice versa). I use it less often than I expected. When operating alone it is fun to send a train out and back, but I would offer two considerations...

During exhibitions I do not use the reversing loop, unless I have several operating assistants. With trains running on the mainline loops a train entering and leaving the reversing loop requires a lot of attention.

I would design a layout with two reversing loops, not one. With one loop, the train reverses and the exercise is over...

Jan

Thanks guys. Great points. My thought, although not expressed in the original post, was to have a loop on each end so the train could keep going back and forth. I was worried about possible derailments even with the anti derailing feature wired in. Seems like switches cause more than their fair share of operating session problems, but I like the idea of the loops to save some width on an upper level line along a cliff.

Ed

We have four on the club layout, two of which we use quite a bit for loop-to-loop operation on the mountain branch. I think it's more realistic to have trains traveling in both directions, especially on a single-track main. Sidings are nice to have for run-around moves to handle facing-point spurs. Interestingly enough, I've seen push-pull freight operations going out and back on what's left of the Redlands Loop to serve a roofing supply company.

I just went with the loop to loop. Instead of switch tracks I just did a double mainline between the loops. I run multi-able  trains all the time on my one track.

Clem k 

Reverse loops are a requirement for any loop style running in my opinion. We have reverse loops for all three mainlines. Any train can run either direction on any loop.

They only time derailments can become an issue with reverse loops is if your train is longer than the clearance point from switch to switch of that loop. If it is, you will run into the back of your own train, especially if the loop is hidden. Ask me how I know that.    

Definitely have at least two reverse loops.  It is also nice if the loops can be an integral part of the layout so it gets use other than the obvious to  just turn the train around.

Dennis

Well you asked for advice.....Don't fall into the Robert Sherman syndrome. What's that you ask. Robert Sherman was one of the most talented artists Lionel ever had. He drew many layouts for Model Builder magazine. If the layout/track plan had a reverse loop, it had only one, never two or more. You'd always end up backing into the single reverse loop to change directions a second time. 

Regards,

Lou N

The anti-derail feature of Lionel FasTrack switches is goof-proof. The LIONELS AT LAMAN LIBRARY holiday layout in North Little Rock, Ark, included two O48 reversing loops at each end of a large (14x24 feet) O-gauge layout.  During  several years of of daily operation over a span of 18 days, we never had a derailment at the reversing loops with those switches.

Mike Mottler

(ritrainguy)

My layout has six reverse loops, but it is difficult to see any of them due to the size of the layout.  There is a large staging / storage yard that is built on one of them. When trains depart from there, the entire mainline is a reverse loop. Go around one way and the train is headed east. Go the other way and it's headed west. Then everything goes back to the yard.

Then there is a second smaller yard also built on a reverse loop. Finally, there are three more loops hidden along the mainline. Trains simply pass through a hole in the backdrop, and the track ties back into itself, and all of a sudden it is going back the way it came. There are also three wyes.

These are the two hidden yard schematics.

This is the lower deck mainline. The reverse loop is obvious in the drawing but is concealed when it passes through the backdrop.

There are two reverse loops and two wyes on the upper level. The reverse loops are a matched pair, as they are facing opposite directions, so a train could be run from loop to loop on this level. One loop was created specifically to handle my Triple Crown roadrailer train. I didn't want to have to back that thing up. The other loop was more of an afterthought and is even more difficult to find. I'm not telling where they are, you can have fun looking for them.

Lou N posted:

Well you asked for advice.....Don't fall into the Robert Sherman syndrome. What's that you ask. Robert Sherman was one of the most talented artists Lionel ever had. He drew many layouts for Model Builder magazine. If the layout/track plan had a reverse loop, it had only one, never two or more. You'd always end up backing into the single reverse loop to change directions a second time. 

Regards,

Lou N

Good point Lou, I always hated those designs. I looked at a lot of these plans, and there was "no escape". As a child I never liked backing up the trains, they always seemed to derail. I've grown up a lot in 50 years, so backing up isn't an issue anymore, but my dislike for the single reverse loop has never gone away.

Maybe he was just trying to be economical with the switches. But that theory falls flat when you realize that it only takes two switches make two loops connected by single track, and that is the same number as the far less desirable plan of an oval with a track cutting across it.

That said, in my opinion, reverse loops should always come in "matched pairs" so you have the ability to turn in BOTH directions without backing. After that, the sky's the limit.

When building my ceiling  shelf layout I put up a large shelf on one wall to hold a single unusual reversing oval teardrop I thought up,  made up of four switches and a 30°crossing(x) in the center. I was never able to finish it though (injury) and filled the shelf with structures  and a tunnel instead.  A train could not bypass looping,  but it could exit either direction.

Adriatic, that's a pretty good idea when space  is a constraint.  You could hide the loop with some removable scenery  to block the view and have a sort of Lionel display disappearing train.

As mentioned above, reverse loops provide more operational fun but take up a lot of room.  Elliott's track plan allows using crossovers between different mains to make the reversing loops, thereby eliminating the need for separate reversing loops.  A simple dog bone shaped layout is an excellent example of this.  As Matt mentioned, a loop-to-loop type layout accomplishes the same thing.  Some examples of double reverse loops using all Ross O-54 track.

My layout is a single track operation with three reversing loops, one at the far end of the layout, two splitting off of a junction.  All three of the turnouts associated with the return loops are Ross.  I use a spring or light weight attached to the throw bar to direct the train through the correct route.  Once the tension on the throw bar was adjusted correctly the chance of a derailment fell to nothing.  The three turnouts associated with the reverse loops are a 0-72 wye, a 0-72 and a 0-42.  The loops after the junction provide a place to park trains to keep things interesting.   

DEPENDING on the size of your reverse loops , your train lengths maybe smaller than you want .  

Reverse loops and 3 rail go hand in hand. Work flawlessly.

Rod Miller

Space, as close to the wall as possible, and parts on hand were a factor on mine.  It was going to be an oval vs the circle shown for a bit more size,  and on a shelf looping a room, more about visual aspects than any proto operations. The short train a compromise. The corner R-loop would have required pulling down two existing shelves too so I centered the new one,  also on hand, over the window. 6 switches are needed to eliminate the crossing and have a straight bypass, a variation of Ron's corner R-loop.

Growing up with looping layouts, loops and spaghetti Os never bother me.  But adult experience has taught me a double reverse or dog bone can be a better use of less space by hugging walls than using up area that could be walked in without a big square in the way. Not to mention reaching things.

On a proto layout...well proto is the goal right

You really want a pair, That way, you can switch directions both ways, You didn't mention switches. IF you use FasTrack manual 036 switches, operation of a reversing loop becomes a no-brainer. The pilot wheels throw the switch as the locomotive passes. I have run them for hundreds of hours with zero derailments.

HI THERE GUYS & GALS 

Here is my current layout until Thurs 10/20/2016

View my picture .  to see my reverse loops .  

On a 12 X 12 table, I have a top oval, a bottom oval, and a single mild grade that winds between the two layers. By having a reverse loop on both layers, along with automatic switches, my old postwar trains run through 90 % of the ovals, the reverse loops and up and down the grade both directions before it repeats, and all hands off. My two reverse loops? Absolutely necessary. I use Gargraves track and switches with one Ross switch I modified for slide shoe trucks. I haven't operated the layout enough yet to know how it will hold up. There are spurs that are still works in progress, but so far so good.

Wanted a point-to-point layout with a reverse loop at each end. Fastrack switches have performed flawlessly for over 2 years of operation so far. Has added so much operation-wise to have the reverse loops on the layout, definitely recommended!

Thank you everyone for the wonderful replies. I'm certainly less fearful of a reversing loop now. I think my best option is to design a dog bone type upper line with a reversing loop on each end. I tend to like tubular track such as Lionel or KLine SuperSnap. Seems like combining that with Fastrack switches at each end should provide pretty reliable service.

I love this Forum!

Ed