TIME FOR MTH TO PRODUCE SOME REAL CLASSICS; NOT ABSURD COLOR VARIATIONS!

WOW - love that Packard - now that is a CAR!  

As for ANY pink repro tinplate: 

OK, let's make sure we understand this AGAIN.

We are talking about MTH's practice of producing pink, and aqua, and whatever color tinplate they want, right? Although no one likes that less than me, if someone's going to buy it, then someone's gotta make it. But...

If you look at standard gauge stuff made in the last 20 or 30 years, it's the odd stuff that holds its value. It's the Lionel CV set, or the Lionel Hiawatha, or the MTH Brute, etc. Nothing else holds its value. Why? Because it's been made over and over and over and over and ..., well, I'm breathless.

And, once again, I will state the obvious. None of the modern reproductions will ever hold the same collector value of the originals because we adults have them, not kids. They don't get banged up or destroyed, and they are not made in the USA. Sorry, but that does make a difference, no matter what color it's painted. 

Now the newer odd "add on" car, you may find holds or increases in value, and it may cost as much as the train it's supposed to go with some day, but that is a very small niche. Repro 400E's and 408E's, well, pretty cheap and easy to find on ebay.

Like I said, color doesn't matter to some of the buyers of these newer trains, in reality. Some buy pink to have something different, etc. MTH produces pink 408E's to give people something to buy. Some guy last year bought the one done in prewar color, so he won't buy that again, but maybe pink would work..... Hmm. Cheap and easy. And that's also OK. You don't have to buy them if you do not like them. That's easy.

Also, I understand there's a business side to it, and these manufacturers need to make money, and find a cheap way of doing it. So they figure what can be profitable first, and secondly, innovative.

I live in Pittsburgh, and the Pirates have been a losing team for years, but the owners are making money on them, and do so with the one of the lowest payrolls in major league baseball, so why change the recipe. Same goes for this stuff. Why make a Boucher blue comet when a pink 408E will do....

BTW, I really like the Boucher blue comet, and it would easily fall into the category of modern collectible IMHO. It would be something if it ever were reproduced.

Sorry, but as much as I hate this type of topic, it draws me in, like a bug to a light. We all need to agree that while modern tinplate emulates original stuff in a a lot of ways, the two are very different and appeal to a very different buying base.

That is a legitimate question.  If someone has no interest in the reproductions, why in the world would he want to complain about what is being made today, regardless of the colors, etc.? 

For me...it's about the unique colors.  So I say....keep'em coming!

Sunrise

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.

"The great joy that I get from seeing these extraordinary trains in operation is simply not present with the reproductions."

uh-huh

It's very simple; even though I don't collect reproductions, I think that if they are created they should be true to the intent that Lionel had when they gave great thought to the color harmony and design that time recognized as true classics. These ridiculous, cartoon like colors demean the trains they are supposed to be reproductions of. If someone wants a blue 408 set, a pink 400E or some of these other bizarre combinations, then let them buy them! As someone once said. there is no accounting for taste under certain circumstances! BTW, in answer to KMK, silence on a subject that you are passionate about and have substantial knowledge of is not foolish, it is enlightening! This is the only reason I have made these comments; my respect and admiration for the brilliant design and aesthetic perfection of these REAL classics. No MTH or LTI trains will ever rise to this level!

In many respects--materials, engineering/mechanics, and cosmetics--they have already surpassed them.  

Of course, in their day, Ives' bright orange "Banker's Special" 3245, and Lionel's two-tone blue "Blue Comet" 400E, (for example) were also "ridiculous, cartoon like colors ".  They are now called "brilliant design and aesthetic perfection of these REAL classics" simply because they are 80 years old.  At the time, Lionel was doing exactly what MTH is doing now: making toy trains in exciting, gaudy, unrealistic, bright colors to appeal to buyers and sell more trains! 

You have totally missed the point! If you look at some of the photos I posted of classic cars of the period, they were simply emulating colors that were popular at the time. Keep this in mind, that these colors were innovative at the time and have become classics because they have stood the test of time! These ridiculous colors that they are using today are not today nor will they ever be classics! I think these choices demean the beautiful trains they are trying to promote!! I have looked at the mechanical and structural qualities of MTH products; they do not even come close to the quality of the originals. I would agree that the finishes are sometimes better and employ modern technology in the sound effects, etc., but the manufacturing quality (especially in motors, trucks, etc. is not on a par with the originals)!

" These ridiculous colors that they are using today are not today nor will they ever be classics!"

To paraphrase that great American philosopher, Y. Berra, "predictions are notoriously unreliable, especially about the future."

I thought, perhaps in error, that it is never, ever good manners to publicly criticize the taste of others.  It's one thing to say a particular item or style doesn't please you personally, but it's quite another to fulminate about the preferences of others.  As a doctor, I'm sure you must be aware of these truisms, but perhaps you are having a particularly bad week and mean no offense to those who do not share your tastes?

I'm having a wonderful week! Bad taste will always be just that!

The indiscriminate use of exclamation points to your dramatic declarations (!) as high drama in regard to your mightily trying to provoke a response to your highly caffeinated passion about old toys here in the quiet zone are eccentric and entertaining as I imagine you driving a Ford Pinto.

Typed in bold face letters, this manifestos strikes me as classics of cheese, but then again, some of us have no developed taste for cultivated tripe as a recipe fit for trolls, and will gladly stick to hamburger.

Bruce

Don't be too sure that he is what he claims to be.  Remember, this is the Internet. 

From another forum..

"Hi, This is Dr. Martin Folb from Los Angeles. I am TCA#60-425, having
joined when I was 7! Most of the individuals with numbers close to this
are either 92 years old or currently at "room temperature" By way of
introduction, I want to tell you that I started collecting old toy
trains when I was 7 years old" 

His TCA # means he's about 59. No further comment is required.

"Don't be too sure that he is what he claims to be.  Remember, this is the Internet"

Well, this is what I purchased a few years back and several other photos. These are all my trains running on friends layouts and at their homes. Seeing these beautiful "Moving Sculptures" in operation is why I am so passionate about this

subject. This is truly a portal into the past that neither MTH or any other modern manufacturer can replicate! "It is a time unlike any time that came before it, it is a time that will never come again"! BTW, I am not a medical doctor, the PhD is in Physics and I have a computer/software comapany.

Has anyone tried to look from the manufacturers' viewpoint? How many times can you offer the original color variations before the originals have already saturated the market? While I don't know how many will buy a pink "girls" locomotive, but I find the newer color schemes attractive. Of course that's my personal taste.

It's just a matter of taste. Different people look at things differently, I'll admit. There are those who think that paintings of Elvis on black velvet are right up there with the "PORTRAIT OF ADELE BLOCH-BAUER" by Gustav Klimt. I just happen to think that great period Lionel, Ives and American Flyer Standard gauge are mostly analogous with the latter, and that pink 400E's are more related to the former! There is room for both, but I'll stick with the Klimt variety of trains.

Regardless of what you think about Dr. Folb's opinions you have to love the trains he keeps showing us.  I think we all have an idea where we stand with regard to this topic so maybe we can let it lie but by all means please keep the pictures coming.

John.

Good thing my tinplate collecting, such as it is, is confined to lithography, and that

Uncle Louie had railroad connections.  So while no marketing slouch and astute to

the buying public, and, no doubt, to women choosing colors, he tended to choose colors on rolling stock you might see roll by across a down crossing gate.

As said on this forum before, two of the women I know who have some familiarity with

this hobby, are offended by "Girl's Trains", considering them chauvinistic patronization.  K-Line produced its version, though.

 There seem to be some pond scum green microboxes on the streets today, so MTH and Lionel may be filling a market invisible to me as I don't have those

colors in my spectrum.   Others do.   A lot of the squalling about reproductions was, and probably still is, based on a fear of devaluation of the original,  especially if you

have an expensive original.  Supply and demand...in this hobby I think demand is often ignored, but the supply dries up fast if there isn't any demand...so...somebody

must buy it...

Landsteiner,

I took offense to his stereotyping ( which seems endless) about others with a  megalomaniac rant about fellow forum members inferior tastes. Who did he think this criticism was directed to, The King of Mongolia? Perhaps he is not as bright as all his self trumpeting attests to. If he joined in 1960, or he's 59..I could care less but stating others are 92 or "at room temperature"  is just another example of this as if age has anything to do with anything,and I could care less if he bought the SS United States, his egomania knows no bounds. I have a word for this individual, but I am in polite company. No more comments from yours truly. As far as taste I found the post very distasteful, materialistically skewed and egotistical. 

Bruce

You are definitely not average.  But holding such a distinction can cut both ways.

Once in a great while, someone will appear on the forum with pictures of a truly astounding collection - and, presumably, the wealth to have acquired it.  Posts of this type, when they occur, are almost uniformly greeted with compliments, appreciation, a kind of subdued respect or even a bit of reverence; and the poster is likely to respond graciously, perhaps answer a few questions, and then withdraw, presumably to go have gin and tonics with the ladies, or to consult his hedge fund manager or some such... but the transient appearance on the forum enriches everyone. 

Martin's posts, on this thread and the related one running concurrently, were initially met with this kind of respect.  Martin replied by becoming insulting, derisive, and condescending, insisting that only his opinion is of value and mocking and deriding everyone else's. 

It has become abundantly clear who it is here who is lacking in grace, class, culture, and respect - you know, Martin, those things money can't buy.

I know that there are doctors of all types - MD's, PhD's, and others - on this forum who do not feel the need to call attention to the fact, nor feel it necessary to prop up an artificial superiority by dropping the names of Viennese painters. Is it possible that you really think this kind of thing makes you more impressive?

The word "absurd" does, after all, have a meaning, and that meaning is not the opinions or tastes of others with which you do not agree. 

Few things are as indicative of poor taste and poor manners as intolerance, and strident narcissism enriches no one.  The forum is about toy trains, it is not about you.  And being able to spend large amounts of money on toy trains does not entitle anyone to be derisive or dismissive of others.

Thank you, Bruce, at least you shamed him into ceasing with the self-important boldface type and exclamatory drama already.  There may be hope yet for these nouveau-riche.

And Martin my friend, every single contributor to this forum has a point of view that you can learn from and be enriched by.  That you have not yet discovered this, and seek merely to put down everyone who does not agree with your opinion, indicates that you are indeed a poor man.

There is a historical precedent for this type of behavior:

http://marklinstop.com/episode...-s-miniature-railway

Re: Pink SG

Lionel did make at least one pink 408E/419/431/490 set. See page 128 of TCA's "Lionel trains - Standard of the World, 1900-1943, 2nd Ed. Unusual, but they did it.

Bob 

I will say Mt. Folb's does rank as one of the less collegial posts I've seen started on this tinplate forum, where fun playing with toy trains normally and thankfully rules.

And speaking of thing collegial (a little lesson here):  

In academia, the title "Dr." is used only in an academic context, such as "Dr. Sidney Jones, Ph.D." unless the bearer of the title is a medical doctor.  The use of the title Dr. outside academia is reserved for medical doctors.  A Ph.D. has earned a doctorate in his chosen field, but that achievement does not extend to using the title in circumstances not associated with the academic community or endeavors, and it is always followed by the "Ph.D" after the person's name to distinguish an academic "doctorate" from the medical practitioner in other communications.  Indeed, he is not all he presents himself to be.  

HI BRIAN, I have proved great colors other than the originals sell. Ask the folks who purchased and continue to purchase the new LCCA tinplate products.

thanks

louie

Well, my poor little High School diploma can't compete with a doctorate in physics and with studying under Nobel Prize winners.

Obviously, us po' folk down here are not worthy to breath the same air...

Rusty

Money buys hubris.

though i've got to admit, the only time i want to hear the word doctor, is when the receptionist says, "the doctor will see you now".

That is a lot of WKRP. Dr. Johnny Fever.

I like the pink standard gauge girls set in the new catalog. Just can't see myself plunking down $2000 to get one though.