Here is a video for the weekend. Some Prewar American Flyer freight sets c. 1925-1930
OK, so the outermost loop of O gauge is not a cataloged set, but rather a grouping of cars behind an engine and the middle O gauge set has an extra car, but they are great to watch!
NWL
NWL: I observed your video of the American Flyer freights. I wondered about the standard (wide) gauge set on the outer track. I obtained from my brother (he was not interested in trains) an AF std gauge set which was cataloged (I think) as "The Pioneer" which contained the 4644 New Haven type box cab in red (just as your video shows) with the green gondola and red caboose but no box car. I wondered if you might know, if the box car came in the original set or if you added it for the video.
Don
Daniel: Two very NICE locomotives! :-)
NWL: ENJOYED those aptly named speedy Flyers! :-)
@Don McErlean posted:NWL: I observed your video of the American Flyer freights. I wondered about the standard (wide) gauge set on the outer track. I obtained from my brother (he was not interested in trains) an AF std gauge set which was cataloged (I think) as "The Pioneer" which contained the 4644 New Haven type box cab in red (just as your video shows) with the green gondola and red caboose but no box car. I wondered if you might know, if the box car came in the original set or if you added it for the video.
Don
Don,
The set running on my layout is the Nation Wide Lines standard gauge set that was sold through JC Penney as a store brand train. All cars are original and marked 4667 and Nation Wide Lines. The engine has a different number, but also the Nation Wide Lines plates on it. So yes the boxcar is original to this set and was not added. However, there are many different variations of freight sets and I am not that knowledgeable about Standard Gauge. I would have to consult the catalogs to learn more.
NWL
NWL: thank you for the information.
Don
Hello everyone,
Here are some items you do not see too often, all Austrian tinplate. I aquired these through a friend in Vienna. The first car, meant to compete with Marklin prewar, is by Herkules of Vienna, who were producing trains from 1946 until the early 1950s. The other three are by Loma of Vienna, who also produced trains during this period. We always here about the great German, French, Swiss and British producers, but so much less about the Austrian and othe Central European producers of the same period.
Miketg
Mike: Very NICE, but need better lighting in your photos. :-)
@Nation Wide Lines posted:Here is one from the layout.
NWL
NWL, what are the toy cars? Are they Dinkys?
MESG smash up
@Will posted:NWL, what are the toy cars? Are they Dinkys?
A mix of Tootsietoy and Hubley. They are the c. 6 inch long sized cars.
Hi Arne,
your LNWR Guards van was also cataloged in the Carette 1911 catalog.
There are variations, the duckets on this one are brown, I also have one like yours with the "spilt milk" duckets.
Plum & Split Milk is a description of LNWR colours that I have seen, LSWR being described as Chocolate & Salmon!
Roland
Scott Smith
Arne: VERY NICE selection of both eight and four-wheel gems! THANK YOU for sharing! :-)
I know this is not really tinplate, but I repainted it in the spirit of the prewar CV locos like Lionel did in the late 90s blue and red versions. This started out as a mid 90s 777 in silver. I bought this real cheap because someone decided to attempt a repaint with a brush on this poor thing. The color is gunmetal from Hobby Horse Products, the silver squares are Krylon metallic shimmer. Decals are home made. The TMCC electronics in the loco work fine, but the sound system in the tender was really fried. I installed an "analog" motor driven air whistle. These locos get a bad rap on being poor runners, with some tuning this runs and pulls quite well. I am using it to pull my 14 car USTTC repainted box car/caboose set. I am using a knuckle to latch coupler adapter.
My new Dapol pannier tank engine with some tinplate add vans.
I've always wondered what a McCoy TTOS Circus passenger set would look like. Now I know. 
"Flats" on my layout..I don't know who made them or when.
JKE: Interesting! Likely European provenance?
An old freight station from MARKLIN in O gauge, around 1910. the roof has been repainted, not great so a future restoration job to do. Lead railway staff is British from the thirties, Britain or Johillco.
Have a nice weekend, Daniel
@Jim Kelly-Evans posted:"Flats" on my layout..I don't know who made them or when.
I have a couple of flats on my layout too!
Don't know who made them, but the figures are recognizable.
INDEED! VERY nice! :-)
I just posted some interesting JEP photos on the O Gauge tinplate forum. Am I allowed
to put the same photos into this week's Tinplate Photos and Videos--Chris?
lewrail - just run the pictures through Photoshop and flip them - they will provide a completely different view and everyone will be amazed at the apparent similarities and differences between the two posts. 
...seriously, just go ahead. I'm sure no one will mind.
The Head Scratcher Special.
I purchased this single American Flyer Ambassador Passenger car many moons ago. I was interested in the car because of the yellow rubber stamped message on the underside. It is illegible, but, at the time, both the seller and I assumed it was the "Sold As Shopworn" notice Flyer would put on items that either were assembly line rejects/ used items/ etc. For whatever reason I didn't get around to putting the car on display in my train room and it sat in one of my storage boxes for several years.
Time passed and I acquired a couple other American Flyer items clearly marked with the rubber stamp "Sold As Shopworn." A few months ago I pulled this car out of storage and looked at the illegible rubber stamp notice again.
Car underside with rubber stamped notice (left hand side)
Whatever the message is, it is too long for the phrase "Sold as Shopworn".
I mulled this over for awhile and then, for the first time ever, I set it on the track.
As you can see the car is a tad unlevel. An examination of the wear on the pickup roller indicates the car did see a fair amount of running at some point (the wear on the roller is deep and off center) so it was not a shelf queen. I thought possibly something had been added or changed after manufacture (the obvious item being a replacement of the left hand truck) but there is no indication of after market additions, changes, or modifications. Since the car appears to be as built I'm guessing the rubber stamp is some kind of notification of rejection and since it is illegible I'll let your imagination run wild as to what it actually says.
Addendum - 22 August 2020: This morning I checked the "Sold As Shopworn" rubber stamp on the bottom of an AF station I have. In addition to "Sold As Shopworn" the rubber stamp has, in smaller font, the words "American Flyer Mfg Co." below the shopworn notice. The dimensions of the station rubber stamp and the the rubber stamp on the underside of the car are almost the same. The only issue are the round dots at either end of the last line on the car. If those are just some sort of artifact of the actual rubber stamp then the stamp on the bottom of the car may just be, in fact, the the shopworn label.
Here are some photos I posted earlier on the Tinplate Forum site which I hope will be of interest. They show the beautiful JEP CC-7001 20V DC electric pulling a train of JEP tinplate coaches. After taking the photos I suddenly discovered that my two Hungarian Mint Company coaches labeled MAV and PV were virtually the same size. You can see them at the end of my train in one of my display cabinets. MAV is the Hungarian National Railway and PV was the name of the toy train. Enjoy.
Been a quiet week or so for me ... but in the "Why is this here in Australia?" file comes my latest little addition .... a nice little Hafner Glen Ellyn Station with semaphore in quite good nick for age methinks?
Am I right in thinking mid to late 1930's?
Fat man; great station. Hafner is a favorite of mine. I have the same station but no semaphore ( station made both ways) Dating Hafner is hard only one thing for sure if station marked Hafner and not Hafner Wyandotte its pre ‘57.
BillT what a great train. MTH did a super job of re-creating the original Lionel version that is completely out of reach both cost wise and availability to most of us. Thanks for posting.
I am not a huge fan of fully restored trains but when this poor loco appeared on the French Craigslist and, as it was just a one hour drive, I had to see it and .... buy it of course. As it was a bargain price that is fine.
So this engine is a gauge one live steam model by BING. it dates from 1925-30 and is just fresh from the attic. Some minor parts are missing, handrails along the boiler, front coupler and tender draw bar but despite his appearance it is not so bad, still work with compressed air. It is extremely dirty, kept in oil sheet of cloth since a very long time which has preserved the main parts. That poor piece has never been cleaned during her life and has been used intensively but it will be salvage. With it the complete set of cars and an oval of tracks. The cars have been repainted...maybe destroyed but i will look at this later.
Now keep it with that wonderful weathering or restore, I think restored will be better....
And a picture from the 1930 catalog
Daniel
Hello everyone...Frenchtrains I have no idea where or how you find these amazing pieces but it is really interesting, Gauge 1 and live steam, Wow what a piece! Thank you for sharing. You know you mentioned ... restore or not? ... just a thought, I like to leave my finds (none as unique as yours) with some scars and play wear...it gives them a patina that indicates they were loved and played with. Maybe just clean it up and add the missing parts and then let it show off its age and wear.
I am continuing my quest to complete a full set of Marx early production from 1934-35 which was the first year of Marx 6" cars and the first offerings of Marx Trains after he took over Gerard Model Works. The big identifier for these cars is the short wheelbase, silver lithographed black frame, and in the very first versions, the "JOY LINE" coupler. I posted earlier my 241/246 Bogota / Montclair coaches and this summer I managed to find the 552 Gondola, 553 Tank, 817 Refrigerator Car, 694 caboose, and 1935 Dark Green Mail/Baggage Car. I was really pleased to recently find the 1678 NP Hopper. This car brings me up to 8/13 cars in the series. Still missing the 201 Observation, 547 Red Baggage, 550 Crane, and 559 Floodlight plus the (very rare and expensive) 551 Tender. All these cars, with the Joy Line Coupler are referred to as Series 1, 6" cars, and were made in 1934- 35 only. So the quest continues, but here is my Early Gondola. Note the short wheelbase and the silver lithographed black frame.
This picture shows the tell tale Joy Line coupler, note large round hole plus tab and not the traditional tab / slot coupler that came along with Series 2 cars about a year later.
Well 86 years old and still functioning... maybe there's hope for me! 
Don
@FRENCHTRAINS Daniel what a wonderful find ! She is truly a majestic old girl , and so encouraging after all this time and neglect she will still turn over with air !
Normally I am personally 100% against restoration of old tinplate , but in cases like yours where there is no real visible trace of the manufacturers finish to be found , then the case for a restoration certainly has more weight , because you are not really replacing original with new , you are replacing "nothing" with something perhaps? It would probably be worth more to the general collectibles market if left untouched , but you will always find there is someone on the secondary market that likes "Pretty" ... I very much suspect tho that it will not be looking for a new home for a long long time , and that then says to me that whatever you choose to do is the right decision
If it were mine I would leave it though ... but that speaks more about my crap restoration ability than anything else
@Don McErlean posted:Well 86 years old and still functioning... maybe there's hope for me!
Don
@Don McErlean I wish I could say the same for me .. I am buggered already LOL!
Lovely hopper and once again your dedication to research and the hunt for treasures inspires us all !
You are lucky I dont live in the US or we would be bitter rivals LOL!
Thanks @Fatman, I totally think the same thing. I think I will restore that poor little engine.
I could make it look as new but a model with patina may look better, in fact I will try several things to obtain the best aspect. Maybe a solution will appear after the total cleaning, just some black paint, maybe wheels repainted and some red lines but no more.
As I will keep it for me the lost of value is not important at all, it will never be a collector piece, just a running model, and with live steal models of this period the patina tends to come very fast with heat, oil, and flames.
Result in the future as I do not have many time to do it....
Very best, Daniel
Hey Fatman...I don't accept "bitter" rivals...after all this is Texas and there is always a convenient Saloon (Pub) where we would work things out...If you ever get to the US...I also have a nice big "Barbie" just waiting to cook steaks!
No Worries!
Don
@FRENCHTRAINS posted:I am not a huge fan of fully restored trains but when this poor loco appeared on the French Craigslist and, as it was just a one hour drive, I had to see it and .... buy it of course. As it was a bargain price that is fine.
So this engine is a gauge one live steam model by BING. it dates from 1925-30 and is just fresh from the attic. Some minor parts are missing, handrails along the boiler, front coupler and tender draw bar but despite his appearance it is not so bad, still work with compressed air. It is extremely dirty, kept in oil sheet of cloth since a very long time which has preserved the main parts. That poor piece has never been cleaned during her life and has been used intensively but it will be salvage. With it the complete set of cars and an oval of tracks. The cars have been repainted...maybe destroyed but i will look at this later.
Now keep it with that wonderful weathering or restore, I think restored will be better....
And a picture from the 1930 catalog
Daniel
I replied to your post on the FB tinplate page (Not realizing until now that you are the same person) It's such a beautiful patina, I'd be tempted to leave it.
@Will posted:I replied to your post on the FB tinplate page (Not realizing until now that you are the same person) It's such a beautiful patina, I'd be tempted to leave it.
Hello Will, as you i didn't notice.... First step will be cleaning and after try to do the best, but leaving it as is may be an option, a sort of rat loco would be funny and it will be fun to run it.
It makes me remember one thing, many years ago in a toy show, I have presented a selection of Lionel Standard gauge trains, running on an oval with accessories all in perfect condition, beside me a friend who has founded an old JEP train in the same battered and rusty condition, worst than my Bing engine, and just cleaned the motor has run it all the day.
Who had the most success..... not me, the general public was admiring this old train in such bad condition but still running....
Very best, Daniel
REGARDING "FLAT" FIGURINES...and posts by Nation Wide Lines and @jim Kelly-Evans...
The "flats" are German...go to this link...there should be a picture of the boy with the bulldog and others...
https://www.zinnfigur.com/en/F...isenbahnfiguren.html
Howard...
One of two Biaggi gauge 1 locos in my collection, this Cock 'o the North model has working rotary cam-activated poppet valve gear, true to the 1934 prototype before it was re-built with Walschaerts valve gear by 1939.
I finally got a chance to clean up my poor filthy McCoy E2. While it's not nearly as clean or in as good shape as most of my other E2s, a bit of cleaning and a bunch of wax made a huge difference. I hope everyone has a great weekend! 
JKE: Your Biaggi might be a "Cock o' the North", but it is definitely the "Cat's meow"! A real JEWEL!
Bill T: Like that NICE ETS steeple cab electric! :-)
From 1898-1900, a BING gauge II live steam loco. cab sides and splashers have been repainted, the lever in the cab is for forward and reverse. 120 years old model.
Have a nice weekend and stay safe, Daniel
Daniel: That loco is an amazing artifact and in excellent condition! Great find! Is Gauge II approximately US "standard gauge"?
Daniel : I have no idea how you come upon such treasurers, but this is just amazing. Thank you for posting, I am sure that except for your posts, I would never have seen anything like it...
Don
Well, since we're doing Bing live steam this weekend, here's my contribution. As near as I've been able to determine this is from 1908 and is an O gauge #339.
I know recently there has been some discussion on restoration of tinplate trains versus leaving an item in its present condition. I have to say that 99% of the time I am in favor of leaving an item in its present condition. The only time I am generally in favor of a restoration, is if an item has been previously altered or had a poor attempt at a previous restoration.
Case in point, this 1928 American Flyer 3211 Caboose.
This is how it looked when I purchased it several years ago.
As you can see, a previous owner decided to paint it silver and the brass identification plates either have been removed or were never present.
Many people passed this over on ebay and I bought it and another 3211 caboose for around $30 including shipping.
In most cases, American Flyer 3211 cabooses are a dime a dozen, but the above caboose represents 1 of fewer than a dozen known to me. The unique feature of this caboose are its handrails. This is an early production 1928 caboose that appears to have had limited production due to the complexity of the handrails. The 1928 catalog artwork (and all of the artwork showing individual sale cabooses through the mid 1930s) shows the following
The slightly later cabooses from 1928, feature handrails similar to the caboose below
Based on the condition of the caboose when purchased, and its unique handrails, I think that most of you can agree that it needed to be restored and it certainly looks much better.
Here are some closeups of the handrails, with a view of the two 1928 cabooses, side by side.
Note the caboose with the unique hand rails has corner posts going from the frame to the roof and that the handrails are a 1-piece design, that start on one side of the caboose, bend upward to the first bracket, then go out to the corner post, wrap around the post, go to the other corner post, wrap around it, and then go back to the other side of the caboose. The hand rails are soldered to the corner posts, which serves to hold the corner posts in place, as the corner posts are peened at the top, but go straight through the frame at the bottom.
Not so obvious is that the holes in the side of the caboose are punched differently for these handrails, than the later cabooses. The handrails come out of a circular hole at the bottom of the side and go up to a square shaped hole that the bracket fits into. The standard production cabooses have 2 diamond shaped holes that the stamped brass handrails fit into.
Additionally, the standard production cabooses have a large plate that is riveted to the frame that holds the end rail in place, with their no longer being corner posts that go all the way to the roof. The standard production cabooses do not have holes in their frames for the corner posts and the cabooses with the unique handrails do not have holes to accomodate the bracket that holds the end rails, like the standard production cabooses.
NWL
Hello Tinplate fans...NWL that was a fascinating story on your caboose and what made that particular one unique. You can smile at the fact that upon reading your post I immediately ran upstairs to the train room to check my 3211...alas its the common one .
Since both Daniel and Robert led off this weekend with Bing my contribution is a recently acquired Bing (I think) freight car. Not nearly as old or exciting as live steam but interesting, i think nonetheless. This is a 4 wheel, tab /slot coupler tank car, lettered for the "Peerless Tank Lines". What I think is interesting is that all the lettering is clearly in English and refers to American or perhaps UK hardware ...like "Westinghouse air brakes" and the use of the word "Gasoline" vice "Petrol" . The lettering also states "M.C.B. pocket coupler" which I am afraid I do not know the meaning of but it must have been considered important, clearly that is prototype information as the toy coupler is a simple tab/slot.
I know nearly nothing about the history of the car so Daniel, Robert, Arne, Fatman, others please help if you recognize this one.
Here is the side view, 2 domes and grey / white livery. All words appear in English with some that seem more American in usage like Gasoline for Petrol. The trademark and "made in Bavaria" in black lettering (very hard to see in pictures) is lithographed in the lower center of the tank, under the "1000" and just above the tank support.
Here is the end view, except for the letters P.T.L and 1000 no markings.
Here is the embossed trade mark. Note the "Bavaria" lettering. The B over W mark also appears in lithography on the tank. I cannot make out the words above the "B".
Fellows I would appreciate any data anyone has , no matter how trivial. Except for the seller maintaining that this is Bing and the "B" in the trademark plus the "made in Bavaria" wording I have no idea where or when this fellow came to be made and how he ended up in the US! However being a "tank-a-holic" it was a must have!!
Have a happy and healthy weekend everyone
Don
Hello Don, nice, it is an interesting BING model, made for the US market around 1922-24. Notice that BING at this time, just after world war one has stamped his trains Made in Bavaria which is a state of Germany as they think that it was better than Germany, goods from there where not very appreciate by customers who suffered of the war, so Bavaria is less known.... You will have to find a little BING loco to match with that car.... note specific mark on the tender of the New York Central and Hudson River.
Very Best, Daniel
Ok, you're headed in the right direction Don, now you need to get its big brother.
Very nice job on the restoration NWL!!! Awhile ago when you showed a picture of the unrestored caboose I was hoping you would decide to restore it.
Daniel / Robert. Thank you for the information. Daniel I will have to search out that loco and Robert I will have to look for the 8 wheel tanker.
I am really pleased that it’s confirmed as pre-war Bing thank you both.
Don
@Robert S. Butler posted:Very nice job on the restoration NWL!!! Awhile ago when you showed a picture of the unrestored caboose I was hoping you would decide to restore it.
Thanks Robert.
I actually started working on the caboose shortly after I bought it in 2012. I have had the body painted for at least 6 years, but set it aside and never got around to media blasting the frame and painting it. I can be terrible with starting projects and not completing them. I have been trying to get to all of my partially finished projects over the past couple of months during the pandemic. I have been working on a project for an hour or so in the morning and then have been doing regular work the rest of the day. I have knocked out quite a few of these partially finished projects over the past couple of months, which has been gratifying.
NWL
Very nice NWL!
Just one more thing to add to the "Wanted List" 
Northwoods Flyer
Greg
I got my Unique Art diesels back out for a run. I had some recommendations to try the aluminum Lionel cars behind it. They look nice but a little heavy for them to pull many.
OK so its a little bent up ....
And its not really scratch free...
Oh and its been played with and abused a fair bit...
Probably stepped on a time or two ..
And it was rescued from after being donated to the English Heart Foundation Charity shop...
Who then listed it on epay , but they didnt know her pedigree ...
Luckily I spied her ... and very uncharacteristic for me put in a bid on the day she was listed ...
Fully expecting to be blown out of the water ... and in actuality, another person DID bid on it a couple of days later , but it was a very tentative bid that only raised it from 0.99p up to a massive £10.50 ... I was pretty sure he was coming back ... so as the Auction finished at about 5 am local time to me ... before going to bed I raised my opening bid to a level at which I could say " well I dont feel so bad now " when he of course came back and outbid me ...
And he didnt come back 
So this rough and ragged beauty is coming to meet a whole lot of new friends at my house !
A 1936-41 Hornby Silver Jubilee Silverlink Clockwork Locomotive and tender ... Sadly she has lost her carriages to the ravages of time, but quite a hard model to find in any condition really, and normally quite spendy when you do , so this is a WIN!!! 
( in my books anyway )
Not produced in huge numbers this loco came in three different colours with the silver being the more common ( there is also a two tone green and a Maroon/Cream livery versions )
Her dings will bend back with a little light persuading, and I am sure she will sit a little more proudly on her M Clockwork Chassis ...
I might be a little in love ... 
OK - I am quoting from Fatman above...as my offering today fits the same category.
"OK so its a little bent up ....
And its not really scratch free...
Oh and its been played with and abused a fair bit...
Probably stepped on a time or two"
You might recall that on 8/23 I posted a picture of my new 1934-35 Series 1, Marx 6" Gondola and talked about my quest to gain all of the Series 1 (Joy Line Couplers, short wheelbase, Silver Litho frame) cars. In that post I mentioned that the one that was unlikely to come my way was the 551 Tender as the guidebook price for E was over $200, way over the other 6" Series 1 cars. This told me the car was unusual ( I hate to use "rare" with Marx) and tough to find, indeed I had not seen one either at a meet or advertised for sale. So imagine my surprise when this fellow showed up and...ALTHOUGH ...he meets ALL of Fatman's criteria quoted above, his price, after some short bids on e-bay, was but $12.50 ! Well since I initially felt I would never get one of these, I could not resist. Like Fatman, I may grow to love his little rusted shell. I polished him up, bathed the wheels and axles in vinegar to get the rust off, and here he is. I don't normally "restore" tinplate, especially lithographed tinplate as you cannot duplicate the lithography. I think he will just join his other Series 1 friends on my shelves as is and I will be glad to just have him after all its 85 years since he left the factory at Girard, Pa.
As you can see, he has had a hard life. Likely in some damp cellar and maybe in a partially wet box. He has lost the finish on one end but the other is OK . To me the key items that are important are that he shows his Joy Line Couplers, Silver Lithographed Frame, and short wheelbase plus another (not visible) characteristic of Series 1, very small diameter axles.
A long way from the fabulous finds of Daniel and Robert and the restoration work of NWL...but he was a "quest" for me and I am glad he is home.
Don
Fatman, yup it's a little bent up and not really scratch free...I must admit I've never understood how those parent back when could just stand there and let their kids play with the trains! I mean, really, talk about short sighted and not thinking about us collectors/operators 70+ years hence and how we might feel about it!
Nice diamond in the rough you've got there. I'm sure with a little TLC it will look and run just fine.
Hi...I guess this is my day for posting. Its stormy here in Tx so outside work can't be done and I am off today so I get to fool around with the trains. I recently acquired a Fandor Timber Wagon and I was examining it and found that the trademark was different than that which appeared in some other Fandor cars I have. So I was hoping that some of you who are much more knowledgeable about European tinplate might have an explanation.
Here are the two cars I compared.
The SHELL tanker has a lithographed trademark which is triangular in shape with the triangle inverted (i.e. pointed down). In a block at the top (broad leg) of the triangle are the block letters "KRAUS" . Then contained within the triangle are two lines of lettering..."FANDOR" on top and "JKCo" on the next line. The country of origin, Germany, is simply lithographed elsewhere on the tank and not really included as a part of the trademark.
The Timber Wagon (Name from TCA Western Div website) has an embossed trademark on the bottom of the wagon floor. It is also triangular but the block lettering "KRAUS" does not appear on the triangle at all. Inside the triangle are the same two lines of printing..."FANDOR" on line 1 and "JKCo" on line 2. Then the word "Germany" is distributed such that it wraps around the apex of the triangle. It is also embossed.
The cars have some similarities such as the embossed springs are similar or nearly identical but the couplers on the tank wagon are far more complex than those on the timber wagon, which has just simple T/S couplers with no retaining device.
Well anyway, I was simply curious about the differences in the trademark and if perhaps they represented different time periods in the production. I know that Mr. Kraus funded the formation of the FANDOR start up in Nuremberg at the founding in 1910 so perhaps the trademark without his name being so prominent would be later when his influence might have lessened.
Don
There is a known history of the Third Reich having restricted certain trademarks of Jewish owned concerns. Could this be the case here?
Tinplate Art. Good thought that may be it. I know that Kraus lost the business in 36 likely to that cause.
Don
Scott Smith
Don and Tinplate Art,
The Nazis did 2 things in the late 1930s. They ordered the population not to buy goods from Jews and they expropriated Jewish businesses with little or no compensation or arranged "forced sales". Bing had failed in the early 1930s and their stampings and products ended up with Kraus and Karl Bub among others. Doll was taken over by Fleischman. Kraus in turn was ultimately taken over by Keim. Trix was bought out by Ernest Voelk under a forced sale arrangement.
Lew Schneider
Hi @Don McErlean The following is just my thoughts on the Kraus timeline regarding the trademarks and business evolvement ...
Joseph Kraus in collaboration with his cousins the Forcheimer brothers Milton and Julius founded FANDOR ( as named after their mothers names of Fanny and Dora ) in 1910 and the trademark was JKCo ( Joseph Kraus & Company) reflecting the involvement of the cousins in the partnership )
The period after WWI was hard for many German firms, as the market in America was tariffed to a point where it was hard for German firms to export there at a profit, so like Bing, and even Hornby, it made much better business sense to start up production IN America to take advantage of the post war prosperity that the US was having ... So Julius and Milton emigrated to America in 1924 with the head Fandor designer, John Koerber, and set up DORFAN funded by & working closely with Joseph and sharing design and tooling costs .. until in 1933 when forced out by the Nazis growth and emerging anti-jewish company ownership laws Joseph deserted the parent company and joined the cousins in the USA ...Keim took it over in 1936 with the blessing of Adolf and his mates !
So I believe that in the period where the Forcheimers were no longer at JKco Joseph felt he could then trademark his products with KRAUS more prominently although still mentioning the Fandor and JKCo history , reflecting the fact the Forcheimers were now Dorfan and that he was in sole control of the German arm of the partnership .
Thanks Lew,Fatman,Tinplate Art, others. History is often outrageous in its unfairness and cruelty but it is good for us to know it such that we guard against repeating it.
Thanks for helping me investigate this find.
Don
And now for something a bit different. Way back about 20 years ago my late friend Marty Fitzhenry built me a relatively simple layout with two main lines connected by Ross 096 crossovers. The footprint was about 6 feet by 10 feet. Since then I've broken through a wall and doubled the size of the layout as well as taken the trains through another wall as part of a new main line loop.
Yesterday I finished abandoning the original portion of the main line to free up space for my German tinplate station collection as well as eliminate two troublesome switches.
And here is the result. The Kibri 52-000 tower station dominates the new scene. The old right of way is clearly evident.
But this may well be a transition scene for I've just acquired but not received the Kibri 52-5. It is the USA version with an original price tag from Bullocks Wilshire in Los Angeles--made during 1952-1954. I may be able to drop it into the space now occupied by the KBN station and Hornby signal cabin. Stay tuned.
That is one BEAUTIFUL station! Just curious: what is the original price on that tag?
jhz563: Beautiful AF train truly a “file cabinet special !
Don
Tinplate Art
Station hasn't arrived yet and the price tag is hard to read from the screen, but I think it will be something like $12.95 . The 1955 USA Kibr catalog shows $13.50. Using the CPI index this would be equivalent to $130 in 2020. I paid somewhat more but not outrageously more.
By the way, I've posted this photo before, but in my opinion here is my most beautiful Kibri station-- the early 52-3 dating from 1929-1936. It cost me significantly more than the early 52-3.
Lew
Also very nice!
A classic JEP model, the "Boite à sel". Call it salt box, box cab, steeple cab as you want, it is one of the most popular model made during 15 years in different variations from litho model of 1925 to 1935 steel embossed cabs, production ceased due to the war and it has not been reintroduced after. It is a shortened model of the PO locomotive who where BB models, only Marklin made a correct model in I gauge, it will be for a next post....
Have a nice weekend, Daniel
Thanks for the kind comments on my latest submissions. Looks like my old age is catching up with me, or I'm too lazy to proof read.The final sentence on my reply to Tinplate Art should have read: "It cost me significantly more than the 52-5". Lew
London Brighton & South Coast British tank loco. Has a Bassett-Lowke horse shoe type DC motor. I am unsure of the maker, but I showed this to Lew a few years ago and he thought it was probably a Leeds product. 
Hi Tinplate Fans...here it is another weekend and its still raining in Texas. Well I have to admit, that I am sort of excited about this posting. I ordered this car from the Netherlands and with COVID it took nearly 2 months to get here. So here goes.
Lewrail - I looked at your beautiful post of the JEP French Railways Postal Van and so I wanted to show you the Hornby version of the same car. Note the clerestory roof which I am told was common on these cars IRL . This one is French Hornby, and is lithographed on the end with France as the country of origin. I can't really date it but all of the pictures I have of this car in the Hornby Companion Volume I have date it to pre-war. It does not appear post war at least not with the clerestory roof. Not quite as long as the one Lewrail showed by JEP but given the similarity of color scheme, a reasonable representative for the Hornby line.
Here is the side view, showing the "Postes Et Telegraphes" message on the side and in the lower right corner is lithographed a postal mail slot where one could deposit their letters.
Here is an end view, emphasizing the clerestory roof line and showing the lithographed treatment of the ends.
Best wishes for a very healthy weekend.
Don
It is a nice Hornby model Don, and the only one produced by Hornby. It dates from 1932-40 and is very representative of the models used by the French railways with that specific clerestory. Hornby Great Britain never produced one for the English market.
Jep has made many different and atractives models and many where included in sets. Here are some pre-war models.
Very best, Daniel
Hi Don,
Note that the JEP postal van is marked SNCF and operated on the old P-O Paris-Tour-Bordeaux route. The Hornby is lettered for the prewar Etat system-- more specifically the A.L. or Alsace-Lorraine component. The prototype can be found at P. 95 of Lamming's incredible book on French Hornby and here is the photo. Lew Schneider
Here are some video clips I put together from running my Standard Gauge trains:
Lew / Daniel. Thank you both for the information on the French postal van and even prototype pictures.
Best wishes
Don
Fatman
I have the Silver Link the Red/Cream Streamliner and the very rare Canadian Postwar MS set.
Still looking for the elusive green streamliner. Lew
@lewrail posted:Fatman
I have the Silver Link the Red/Cream Streamliner and the very rare Canadian Postwar MS set.
Still looking for the elusive green streamliner. Lew
Your Hornby gathering skill is that of a Sensei Hornby Master Lew
That cabinet alone features most of my Hornby "Dream Team"
The elusive USA Hornby at top .. and not only one but several lol ..
Followed by Wittrocks under ( My guilty Danish pleasure)
PLM's ( Hachette?) AND Original ?
The No.3 CPR Hornby is the Star tho immensely hard to find ... never seen one for sale.
French Bugatti's .... sigh ... Inspirational cabinet from top to bottom Lew!
Hi Fatman and any other Hornby fanatics
Thanks for your kind comments. The top Hornby USA freight consists of the Made in England freight cars with the British couplers. The true USA Hornby freight is on the middle shelf and is very rare. It can be identfied by Made in USA printed on the cars AND the USA couplers. Some of the USA cars were returned to England after the USA factory closed and refitted with British couplers.
The PLM set with the coaches is Hachette, but the PLM loco in front is original (with the box).
The #3 CPR set is not shown in this recent photo so I assume you are referring to earlier photos or to the photos on my website. I believe I have the only CPR set box known. Here
is a photo.
Congratulations. Not many can identify Wittrock!!
Lew Schneider
Love those postal vans!
Question for Lew: How rare are the Hornby American sets, of which you have several?
Hi Tinplate Art
Hornby made 3 USA sets--
1. Red clockwork locomotive Nr 2527 and 2 green passenger cars
2. Green locomotive Nr 2527 and 2 yellow passenger cars
3. Red locomotive 2527 and 3 freight cars
#2 is by far the hardest to find because of the green 2527.
All 3 sets are rare Don't get tricked into acquiring the British rolling stock even though they look like the USA cars.
Check the couplers and look for "Made in USA" on either the passenger car ends or the freight car sides. A particularly interesting British version has link couplers and the words Made in USA painted out. I wrote articles on these trains many years ago for the TCA and Collecting Toy Trains magaine.
I would say that the locomotives appear once in every 5-10 years. The USA rolling stock is easier to find.
Even though a Canadian catalogue that I have shows electric USA locomotives I've never seen or heard of one. Chris Graebe, the famous Hornby author, claims they are out there, but he's never seen one either. Here's an interesting photo from my historical files when one of my Hornby stations was featured on the layout.
Lew
Hi @lewrail Yep thats the one lol ... Pretty much the Holy Grail in Hornby collecting , thanks for sharing !
Oh and in that cabinet photo , is that a Canadian Silver Jubilee livery as well ? The green version far right just above the Silver 2509 rake ? Also a very rare beasty!
I have only seen one in pictures from a concluded auction ...
Image borrowed from Lloyd Ralstons Toys sale
Of course Fatman that CPR "Silver Link" has the wrong tender. As it turns out I have the box for the CPR set. It is not labeled Nr 0 (Should have been MO) like the other Silver Links but rather "MS". Perhaps the S stood for Special? Who knows.
Lew
Scored a one bid wonder win on ePay just now for a cute little Japanese "Standard Gauge " Trains set ... little battery powered fellow from just after the war ( C1950 ) ... Luckily I already know who the manufacturer is with my being a member on the Sakai Trains forum
SO yes it IS a Sakai built set , but sold unbranded as a generic issue so others could market it as theirs
A Baltimore & Ohio Freight Set .. these came in different sets with different levels of track and accesories ... this one is a mid range with 3 wagons and Oval of track , you could also buy the loco with 2 passenger coaches & circle of track .. and a top tier version "Under and Over " with a figure eight track with pylons to elevate into one loop without a crossing.
Picked this up on eBay. Made from an American Flyer water tower. This is the same tower used by Bing, Ives and Flyer.
Steve
Another recent pick up. A *******ized British Marx Silver Link. Someone modified it with a JEP tender.
Steve
@Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:Picked this up on eBay. Made from an American Flyer water tower. This is the same tower used by Bing, Ives and Flyer.
Steve
Steve,
Actually, it is not the same tower that Bing sold. Bing's was very similar, but yet different.
So, the notable differences between the two:
1) The spout on the Bing tower comes out of the bottom of the tower and is soldered to the tower. The spout swivels side to side, but not up and down. The spout on the Flyer/Ives tower hooks on to the front and attaches to a string with weight and moves up and down, but not side to side.
2) The ladder on the Bing tower does not attach to the roof. The ladder on the Flyer/Ives tower pokes through the roof with two tabs.
3) The tank on the Bing tower is attached to its bottom/base via solder. The tank on the Flyer/Ives tower is separate and removable from its bottom/base, with the tank being held in place by a long rod that on the unlighted Flyer/Ives (Ives never sold a lighted tower) goes to the top and attaches to the threaded underside of the finial.
4) The roof on the Bing tank has a hidden rim that simply slides into the tank. The finial on this tank is soldered to the roof. See #3 above for the means of attaching the Flyer/Ives roof.
Fatman, others...Great Sakai set and I love their boxes. Since you opened the door on Japanese "tin" I thought I might post a few of my "floor train" collection, almost all from Japan in the 1960's or 70's. Mostly gathered when I used to travel to Japan or Okinawa on Air Force business. I love their lithography usually in wild color schemes. All these are battery powered, and have lights, motion, and some have "mystery motion" whatever that is.
Here is a full train, modeled after their commuter trains or local branch services. This is a floor toy, push only.
Like Fatman's B&O set, here is a very fanciful F-3 for the "Seaboard Coast Lines" no less. Not sure if Seaboard ever actually had a "76" decorated F-3 but in 1976 lots of RR did do special paint jobs. Box is all in English so this was clearly meant for the US or other English speaking markets. Note cardboard on top just protects the attached horns. Note price $6.96...not too bad for a toy this nice.
Finally, the most fanciful of the lot...the 4479 Steam Loco. This has quite an action is battery powered and makes a (terrible sounding) whistle while it moves ! Side rods have motion and it has headlight as well.
All of these are quite large. The commuter train might pass as close to O'gauge but the steamer and the F-3 are much closed to Standard Gauge (US Lionel standard gauge or AF wide gauge) or even G gauge. I have quite a number of these floor toys from the golden age of Japanese tinplate but this is the first time I thought anyone might even be interested.
Don
I finally shot some video of my favorite Lionel tinplate train. I love those uncatalogued passenger cars.
@Don McErlean posted:Fatman, others...Great Sakai set and I love their boxes. Since you opened the door on Japanese "tin" I thought I might post a few of my "floor train" collection, almost all from Japan in the 1960's or 70's. Mostly gathered when I used to travel to Japan or Okinawa on Air Force business. I love their lithography usually in wild color schemes. All these are battery powered, and have lights, motion, and some have "mystery motion" whatever that is.
Here is a full train, modeled after their commuter trains or local branch services. This is a floor toy, push only.
Don
I motorized one of these.
Steve
Take a ride on my tinplate layout at the club....
Scott Smith
A shot of my 249 which is mated with a 2225T tender:
This is a late production version which dropped the E despite being equipped with a reversing e-unit. My understanding is the 265T tender came with freight sets, the coupler height being lower than the 225W that came with passenger sets. Why this one is paired with a 2225T, I'm not sure. It came in a set, so I presume it was boxed/delivered in this pairing.
PD
Great engine. The 249 and 249E is significant to me as it was the engine featured with “uncataloged” freight sets in and around 1938 featuring the larger lithographed “Ives transition” cars. Great find they are not common.
Don
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